Peco code 75 bullhead double slips.

[Graham_Muz]

A full Summer update from PECO, including the bullhead trackwork can be read here https://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/pg/201/KMRC-Skrifra---PECO-News-Update---Summer-2021

[martin_wynne]

Latest from Peco:

 

[Lacathedrale]

I had a layout germinate, be designed, half built and track laid, stock purchased and then mothballed, the layout them dismantled and sold on. All in the time between when Peco said the double slip would become available until it became clear it was not going to be available ... last year.

[dasatcopthorne]

Guys.

 

I have heard/read two suggestions that Peco are to drop the idea of any more Bullhead 00 track.

 

Anyone else seen anything please?

 

Dave.

 

Edited August 23, 2021 by dasatcopthorne

[PMP]

15 hours ago, dasatcopthorne said:

Guys.

 

I how heard/read two suggestions that Peco are to drop the idea of any more Bullhead 00 track.

 

Anyone else seen anything please?

 

Dave.

 

 

Which bit of this 

is so hard to understand?

 

Edited August 22, 2021 by PMP

[Nick Gough]

It may be that Peco have decided not to extend the range any further than the previously announced slips, crossings and medium radius turnouts.

 

However, it wasn't very long ago that they were asking for suggestions as to what to produce next.

I would have thought that they would wait and see how the new items sell before making that decision.

[dasatcopthorne]

23 hours ago, PMP said:

 

Which bit of this 

is so hard to understand?

 

 

PMP

 

I understand that statement completely. I'm not 'thick'.

 

Things change all the time and their view of the future of 00 Bullhead could have changed.

 

For someone who has invested in the 00 Bullhead I keep my ears and eyes alert.

 

Nevertheless, two well known users/followers  of Peco 00 track have suggested very recently (since that statement) that these items may never arrive now.

 

My question was, has anyone heard this. It wasn't a request for a repeat of Peco's statement.

 

Dave.

[Pete the Elaner]

Unless you hear it first hand, take everything you hear with a pinch of salt.

 

There may well have been a statement from Peco saying "We have decided it will not be economical to make these items this year.". Now remove the last 2 words & read it again.

 

I can understand delays like we are seeing with bullhead crossings being frustrating & it is all to easy to think they will never arrive, but try to think about the reasons:

New items are often delayed when issues have been discovered which force a re-design.

The pandemic has had a massive effect. A model railway is a great lockdown hobby. You don't need personal contact to work on your own layout. This places a higher demand on Peco's regular products.

Peco have stopped production of their regular products to make PPE & I also understand they have had to close their factory more than once because of a Covid outbreak. This sounds entirely plausible to me.

Few production facilities have excess capacity. You produce only what you need. Having the extra capacity to cope with a surge in demand is very wasteful, so nobody does.

So, like many manufacturers, Peco have been left with a decision. Do they concentrate of their best sellers which are currently low in stock, or do they leave these to run out completely & build something new?

 

Peco's OLE took years to be introduced & there was speculation that they had been dropped from plans, but they arrived eventually.

The long radius bullhead turnouts also took a while to become available.

 

I have no reason to believe the bullhead crossings & medium radius turnouts are anything other than delayed for an unknown period of time.

[PMP]

3 hours ago, dasatcopthorne said:

 

 

Nevertheless, two well known users/followers  of Peco 00 track have suggested very recently (since that statement) that these items may never arrive now.

 

 

Dave.

So who are these well known followers/users of Peco products? 

Why not ask them their source?

 

Less than six weeks ago Peco say they’re manufacturing the products (all being well) at the latter end of this year. I’m unlikely to be considered to be a well known user or ‘follower’of Peco, how does one qualify for those accolades?

Anyway, I’ll just leave this here.

Edited August 23, 2021 by PMP
Chelling speck

[Wellyboots]

6 hours ago, dasatcopthorne said:

 

Nevertheless, two well known users/followers  of Peco 00 track have suggested very recently (since that statement) that these items may never arrive now.

 

Dave,

 

Are these "two well known users/followers" aware of the recent statement from Peco? Is it possible to quote their statement(s) on the subject? Was it here on RMWeb or another public forum? I have the feeling that this is nothing more than the opinion* of individuals who have little or no knowledge of the situation with regards to the development and production of further bullhead track items from Peco.  Is it the case that this opinion is nothing more that speculation and rumour mongering? Peco's statement indicates that production will begin later this year, maybe we should wait until the end of the year and if there are no further updates only then raise our concerns?

 

* Opinion; - "A view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge."

 

Regards

[richard w]

I suspect one of those two people was me as to my knowledge the most recent statement was this.

 

https://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/pg/201/KMRC-Skrifra---PECO-News-Update---Summer-2021

 

I had clearly missed the latest update.  I'll hold off ballasting my temporary slip and look forward to any future news.

[E100]

I think the range will take off considerably when they have a range to speak of (note I'm not stating they haven't had good reason for delays / other priorities). The current streamline and simple right and left are just that little bit too limiting for anyone to go all in with all but the simplest of layouts without resorting to track building which many find daunting or just not their thing. I think once they have their slips and diamond crossings along with maybe a couple of other points sizes and even a curved example then they will be good as sorted for the majority. It'll be a couple of years at least but the future is looking promising IMO.

 

Out of interest outside of the UK is there much use of Peco code 75. I know code 83 is preferred in the US. I just wonder if Peco may simplify by phasing out wooden HO code 75 in favour of bullhead as the demand may no longer be there. I can't see many UK modellers going for it once bullhead is in with code 100 arguably closer to realistic height for modern image.

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, E100 said:

Out of interest outside of the UK is there much use of Peco code 75. I know code 83 is preferred in the US. I just wonder if Peco may simplify by phasing out wooden HO code 75 in favour of bullhead as the demand may no longer be there. I can't see many UK modellers going for it once bullhead is in with code 100 arguably closer to realistic height for modern image.

Without wishing to (re)open any cans of worms, it is also arguable that being under-scale on the rail height helps disguise being under-scale on the gauge. Two wrongs, as ever, don't make a right; but in this case they perhaps help create an illusion of doing so....

 

I think that Code 75 FB Streamline simply looks better proportioned than Code 100, even if prototype changes gradually makes the latter more authentic by default.

 

Space issues mean it will be the introduction of medium radius bullhead points that will swing me in its favour. For me, using the long sort would reduce train lengths by a coach or 3 wagons. The points would look better in themselves but create, and draw attention to, a relative (and, for me, critical) lack of distance elsewhere... 

 

John

Edited August 23, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[Nile]

9 hours ago, E100 said:

I just wonder if Peco may simplify by phasing out wooden HO code 75 in favour of bullhead as the demand may no longer be there.

 

Cost may be an issue to some, with BH points costing twice that of FB ones.

[Pete the Elaner]

12 hours ago, E100 said:

 

Out of interest outside of the UK is there much use of Peco code 75. I know code 83 is preferred in the US. I just wonder if Peco may simplify by phasing out wooden HO code 75 in favour of bullhead as the demand may no longer be there. I can't see many UK modellers going for it once bullhead is in with code 100 arguably closer to realistic height for modern image.

 

Modern image has little to do with it. I have never stood on a platform next to a yard with bullhead & felt that the height of the rail itself was significantly less than that of the FB on the main line next to it.

Regardless of how dimensions actually scale down, code 75 looks better to me than code 100 under a class 87 or 90. It probably has a lot to do with OO being too narrow.

 

Sales are more significant than the opinons of a minority of modellers. Peco's own concrete bearer pointwork is only available in code 75*. That is probably a more significant guide to Peco's opinion.

[E100]

I was probably more going off comments above around 90% Code 100 / 10% Code 75 and whether Peco could support 2 Code 75 ranges. Realistically I guess that even that 10% Code 75 may well be as much as they make in some of the other gauges e.g. O gauge / OO9 etc anyway, so even with Code 75 FB being a small slice it's compared to a big cake if that makes sense. 

 

It's a really good point about the narrow track looking more proportional with code 75.

Edited August 24, 2021 by E100

[dasatcopthorne]

20 hours ago, Wellyboots said:

Dave,

 

Are these "two well known users/followers" aware of the recent statement from Peco? Is it possible to quote their statement(s) on the subject? Was it here on RMWeb or another public forum? I have the feeling that this is nothing more than the opinion* of individuals who have little or no knowledge of the situation with regards to the development and production of further bullhead track items from Peco.  Is it the case that this opinion is nothing more that speculation and rumour mongering? Peco's statement indicates that production will begin later this year, maybe we should wait until the end of the year and if there are no further updates only then raise our concerns?

 

* Opinion; - "A view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge."

 

Regards

 

I fully realise that the two people I saw posts from could be speculating or rumour mongering or miss interpreting.

 

That was the whole point of my post asking if anyone else had heard anything.

 

Read my original post again to fully understand what I was asking.

 

Dave.

[Wellyboots]

11 hours ago, dasatcopthorne said:

 

I fully realise that the two people I saw posts from could be speculating or rumour mongering or miss interpreting.

 

That was the whole point of my post asking if anyone else had heard anything.

 

Read my original post again to fully understand what I was asking.

 

Dave.

 

I fully understand what was written in your original post; a statement and a question asking if anyone else had read or heard anything similar. The thing is the question asked did not seek to confirm if there is any truth to the statement but instead just seeks to confirm if the rumour had spread. The fact is that only one post separates your original post from two that contain useful information about what's happening; one on the 8th June with a link to Kernow Model Rail Centre's blog (which I'll paraphrase) says; "Peco are concentrating on production of existing product ranges, new bullhead products delayed until an unspecified date in the future". This is an informed source probably directly quoting an official statement. The second on 6th July shows an official Peco statement which (paraphrasing again) says; "Concentrating on production of existing product ranges, new bullhead tooling ready and plan to start production in late 2021".  The two statements indicate that the new bullhead items will eventually be produced and with that in mind it does make me ask; "Why after spending what is probably significant sum of money on developing the products and creating the tooling, that is apparently ready for production and only a few weeks ago saying that they will be start production soon, would Peco change their minds and throw it all in the bin?"

My post sought to question the source of the statements, to give an opinion about the possible source and to state the facts that are known to me, although that might not have been what you were expecting sometimes a question does deserve a little more than a basic answer. I could have simply written "Not heard that but it's codswallop!", but that wouldn't be helpful would it? The truth is that there is no evidence to support the claim that Peco are dropping their planned expansion of the bullhead range, the available evidence indicates that they do intend to produce the promised items and explains why production hasn't yet started.

Edited August 25, 2021 by Wellyboots

[Darius43]

So, with reference to Dave’s question, in summary:-

 

1.  No, we haven’t heard anything like that.

2.  OO Gauge is too narrow.

3.  Code 75 is too thin.

4.  Code 75 looks better, maybe.

5.  How dare you spread such scurrilous rumours with your inscrutability worded post with its thinly disguised innuendo and subtext.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[Harlequin]

For anyone who hasn't seen it yet or doesn't get Railway Modeller, here's a quote from Steve Haynes, Peco Sales Manager, talking about the Code 75 Bullhead range in the "Peco at 75" supplement to RM this month:

Quote

...the coming months should see the phased introduction of the single and double slip, long crossing, and medium radius turnouts, with further items likely to follow.

 

Edited September 14, 2021 by Harlequin

[dasatcopthorne]

Interesting.

 

Fingers crossed.

 

Dave.

[James Harrison]

Quote

...the coming months should see the phased introduction of the single and double slip, long crossing, and medium radius turnouts

 

Encouraging, but "I'll take 'things we've heard before' for 200, Alex".  

[RichardT]

On 23/08/2021 at 22:56, E100 said:

Out of interest outside of the UK is there much use of Peco code 75. I know code 83 is preferred in the US.

That's because the Code 83 range is designed to US track geometry standards and sleeper (tie) spacing, not because of the track code per se: it's accurate US H0 track. 

 

(I just wish Peco would do a similar US geometry/tie spacing range in N code 55.  The US market for it is wide open and waiting, as their only competitor for accurate US N track is Atlas, and their N code 55 turnouts are flimsy, cheaply made and usually unavailable.)

 

Richard T

 

 

Edited September 14, 2021 by RichardT
Forgot something

[HillsideDepot]

This came up on my Facebook this afternoon. 

 

[Image was screenshot of Peco job vacancy advert]

Of course there are many, many products in their range, but engaging new production workers can only be a good thing, and hopefully good news for the bullhead range.

Edited April 5, 2022 by HillsideDepot
Photos re-instated after Dediserve debacle

[acg5324]

The PECO event at Monk Bar Model Shop in York brought samples of the expanding Bullhead range…its not far off being released. Clicking on the picture will take you to some pictures.

 

Edited September 24, 2021 by acg5324