Early 30s Brake van livery

[cabbie37]

I hope I'm asking this in the right sub-forum. I've nearly finished a Falcon brass/Jidenco ex-LSWR 20ton Brake van and I just need to clarify something regarding the livery. I'm aware that the ends of the van were painted a shade of red but just want to check, would that have included the inner 'partition that forms the end of the Guards compartment as well as the outer Verandah panel. I think yes, but it's just as easy to check to make sure..

 

many thanks in advance...

 

 

[Wickham Green]

Yes, the partition would be painted 'Venetian red' - but probably not below the level of the veranda rail.

 

Next question : Exactly what colour WAS 'Venetian red' ? .......

[cabbie37]

Thanks - that's very helpful, I would have missed the 'half height' aspect of the partition...

 

As to what colour? Well, mine will have faded from the original colour... That will be my excuse, anyway...

 

:o)

 

Hugh

[Nearholmer]

Venetian Red = traditional British Army red coat colour.

 

But, that sort of doesn’t answer the question, because the shade varies quite a bit depending upon the source of pigment and weathering etc.

[Wickham Green]

Traditional British Army red coat colour ( Redcoat colour ? ) would, indeed, be a useful warning colour ......... the 'venetian red' paint available from model suppliers is believed to be a faded rendition.

[Nearholmer]

Some of the paints labelled ‘Venetian red’, especially for interior decoration, seem to be very ‘let down’ versions.

 

If you look for good quality oil paints, they often show a swatch of canvas painted with various degrees of ‘letting down’, and it amazing how colours change appearance as intensity is reduced.

 

Trouble is with a lot of old paint names is that the name is that of the pigment, which tells one nothing about how much pigment is used to make the paint, unless you have the recipe!

[cabbie37]

Can anyone advise a source of (roughly) the right colour? My immediate port of call, Precision, shows this...

 

https://www.phoenix-paints.co.uk/products/precisionrailway/bigfour/sr/14p90

 

But that looks a rather 'muddy' brown to my eye, though this is a relatively cheap laptop I am using and I suspect colour rendering of the screen is not its strong point...

[Wickham Green]

Muddy brown, indeed, on my screen too ...... but memory of my tin ( at home ) suggests it's actually a bit pinker - though how this relates to the warning colour it must have been intended as is a mystery.

[bécasse]

When freshly painted the red was quite bright but it must have contained a fair lead content as it weathered quickly to a much duller red of which the Precision Paints paint isn't a bad copy. As with white roofs, this effectively wasn't really weathering but the result of a chemical reaction which produced near-black lead sulphide within the paint. The Isle of Wight Steam Railway has always taken considerable trouble to try to get its  colours historically correct and, over the years, both bright and dull reds have been seen there on brake van ends.

[Wickham Green]

15 hours ago, bécasse said:

When freshly painted the red was quite bright but it must have contained a fair lead content as it weathered quickly to a much duller red of which the Precision Paints paint isn't a bad copy. As with white roofs, this effectively wasn't really weathering but the result of a chemical reaction which produced near-black lead sulphide within the paint. The Isle of Wight Steam Railway has always taken considerable trouble to try to get its  colours historically correct and, over the years, both bright and dull reds have been seen there on brake van ends.

Unfortunately - for the purposes of this discussion - they're not allowed to use lead-based paints and demonstrate colour deterioration in action.