Maygib Midland/LMS 0-6-0 3F Tender Loco

[ianLMS]

Thank you Izzy. That sounds like the problem, compounded by my attempt to get them to fit properly by attacking everything with a file!

[Barclay]

Ah, like this pannier chassis I built recently? I didn't realise the 4F had been updated.

 

 

 

[PenrithBeacon]

Many of the former Comet chassis kits have been withdrawn by Wizard, the website says that only limited stocks of the Pannier chassis kits are available. A shame, they were good kits, well designed and produced.

[Izzy]

3 hours ago, ianLMS said:

Thank you Izzy. That sounds like the problem, compounded by my attempt to get them to fit properly by attacking everything with a file!

Depending on how you glued the hornblocks into the chassis - I used to use evostick - then it might be possible to remove them and re-position them after trimming the ‘fat’ leg/ridge so they sit correctly aligned across the frames. I mostly used the coupling rods to get them set at the correct distance. There is of course jigs to help with this now. Could be worth playing with even if the chassis is ‘dog eared’. Might rescue it, or at least be another learning experience!

 

Izzy

[ianLMS]

I used superglue but it will clean off ok. I have the Poppy's jig and will use the coupling rods to set the MJT hornblacks in place. 

[ianLMS]

I have been working on the kit on and off over the past few weeks but have eventually got a rolling chassis working complete with motor and gearbox. I purchased a Comet 4F chassis just to see, but the length was different and the height would have required a lot of fettling.

 

So, I soldered the MJT hornblocks, which was fun in itself and used the Markits hornblock axle jigs to aid lining them up. I fitted a Comet 2-stage gearbox with Mistsui motor and so far, the chassis is moving quite nicely with the Comet coupling rods installed.

 

Question: I have fitted a 0.6mm wire for the compensation, but I am not sure if this is going to the job. Any recommendations which wire should be used for this? I assume it will all need a bit of adjustment once the weighted body is fitted so it sits level.

 

The body is complete so all that's left now apart from the tender is to fit the brakes/sandboxes, pick-ups (where I usually struggle) and DCC chip, weight the body and begin to paint everything.

 

Pics to follow soon.

 

Ian

[hayfield]

Ian

 

Perseverance use the same 1/16" brass rod for both the pivot rod between the chassis and compensation beam which is soldered to 1/16" inside bore brass tube. I guess any rod which will hold its shape will be fine and can be of differing diameter to the pivot rod

Edited December 30, 2019 by hayfield

[Steamport Southport]

On 06/12/2019 at 11:18, PenrithBeacon said:

Many of the former Comet chassis kits have been withdrawn by Wizard, the website says that only limited stocks of the Pannier chassis kits are available. A shame, they were good kits, well designed and produced.

 

I think he was having problems with one of his suppliers. Most things are back in stock now (apart from some of the carriage and wagon kits).

 

 

 

Jason

[ianLMS]

4 hours ago, hayfield said:

Ian

 

Perseverance use the same 1/16" brass rod for both the pivot rod between the chassis and compensation beam which is soldered to 1/16" inside bore brass tube. I guess any rod which will hold its shape will be fine and can be of differing diameter to the pivot rod

I will have a read of the 4mm chassis constr uction book and see what they recommend. 1\16th equals arpund 1.6mm in new money

[hayfield]

Ian

 

The kit instructions date from a period where many were still using imperial sizes and of course available, the use of brass again was what was easily available, you could use a thinner rod in a stronger material. The important thing is it keeps its shape !! 

[ianLMS]

Thanks for that. I used a 1mm brass rod and it seems ok so far. Of course it may behave differently on the layout so we will see. Hopefuly i will get the dcc chip fitted and test run it over the next week or so

[hayfield]

 

Last night I quickly through together an old Wills Finecast FC102 ( Triang Hornby Tender loco replacement) to EM gauge standards, as I needed a rolling chassis in EM gauge to test some track. These older etched chassis both lack detail (no brake gear) and none of the spacers are any good, I have also noted the axle bearings are a bit too long. Having said all this after watching Mr Wright building chassis on youtube I thought a free running rigid chassis without jointed rods might make an ideal track building rolling test chassis. I have an offcut of roofing lead outside, will cut a couple of bits off to give it some weight, not having brake gear is a bonus in this instance

 

I do have an old BEC SR 700 loco, it has a now defunct Triang style replacement chassis (Plastic & wood) which has given up the ghost, I will see how well this chassis fits before buying a Southeastern Finecast etched chassis and a Comet tender chassis, could breath new life into an old kit and give me a quick EM gauge conversion

 

I did find with this older chassis some slight issues fitting spacers different to those included, the Southeastern Finecast latest version have etched spacers for both 00 and EM/P4 gauges along with brake gear, also you can easily convert the chassis to compensated or sprung rather than building it as a rigid chassis and it has an option of fixed or jointed rods. These chassis are very underrated, there are 3 versions, the Jinty in either tank or tender versions and a Hornby Dublo R1 replacement chassis. Many good kits were made to use the Triang/Hornby and Hornby Dublo chassis

 

 

[ianLMS]

From the chassis' I have built so far, I would say I prefer the Comet and the SE Finecast ones over the older more solid type. Some were so thick my soldering iron wouldn't touch it. 

 

The Maygib one was fine, it just didn't give an option if you wanted a fixed chassis. It had the cut-outs already put in for the hornblocks and no way of making them solid unless you purchased the solid hornblock kits that is.

 

In the end, I used Comet chassis spacers using the pre-drilled holes in the chassis sides and it all went together nice and square.

[hayfield]

For years I stuck with Antex 25 watt irons having differing tips from very small (quite useless for most jobs) to very large, now having some 0 gauge kits I bought a cheap 75 watt iron as a stop gap, now have a 75 watt temperature controlled iron with several tip sizes. Speaking with the company its both the wattage and tip size which helps solder larger items. With the Jamieson a blow torch may be better !! or just buy an etched chassis

 

I now have a Hobby Holidays chassis jig, I was lucky to find one second hand and Phil is happy to sell alternative parts for both 4 & 7 mm scales

[PenrithBeacon]

2 hours ago, hayfield said:

For years I stuck with Antex 25 watt irons having differing tips from very small (quite useless for most jobs) to very large, now having some 0 gauge kits I bought a cheap 75 watt iron as a stop gap, now have a 75 watt temperature controlled iron with several tip sizes. Speaking with the company its both the wattage and tip size which helps solder larger items. With the Jamieson a blow torch may be better !! or just buy an etched chassis

 

I now have a Hobby Holidays chassis jig, I was lucky to find one second hand and Phil is happy to sell alternative parts for both 4 & 7 mm scales

Hello, John and a Happy New Year to you.

It's interesting how people have different ideas on soldering and soldering irons. I have a 60W iron bought a long time ago while I was following a series of articles on building a 1F in the railway press. For 4mm it's useless, being clumsy and needing far too much solder to create a joint. This solder of course has to be cleaned off, so it's a pain in the bum.

 

For 4mm etched kits, which is what I do when I solder at all (and then mostly conversions of RTR), I use a 25W Antex with a 1mm tip. It puts the heat where I want it and uses very little solder, which means I have little solder to clean off . For non-ferrous soldering, excluding white metal which I haven't yet needed to try, I use fine rosin cored solder and extra rosin if needed from a tub of the stuff I bought off eBay. It's not a great idea to add more solder just to get more flux! It just leads to extra cleaning up. For soldering ferrous materials I use Carrs acid fluxes because of their etching properties, but I also use safety goggles, it spits as it bubbles. Nasty stuff, I once had to scrap a perfectly good pair of reading glasses because pitting on the lenses caused by acid fluxes, well worth a pair of safety googles.

 

I'm about to do some soldering of fine wires, a 15W for that I think 

 

Cheers

[Barry O]

I have an Ayou temperature controlled iron. This, with either fluxite or watered down phosphoric acid on clean joints works for me. I do have a 40W  and a 90W Weller if required. The 90W is used to heat thick O gauge chassis to get them to stay together. 

Clean joints, good flux and a clean iron seem to be the trick.

 

Baz

[hayfield]

1 hour ago, PenrithBeacon said:

Hello, John and a Happy New Year to you.

It's interesting how people have different ideas on soldering and soldering irons. I have a 60W iron bought a long time ago while I was following a series of articles on building a 1F in the railway press. For 4mm it's useless, being clumsy and needing far too much solder to create a joint. This solder of course has to be cleaned off, so it's a pain in the bum.

 

For 4mm etched kits, which is what I do when I solder at all (and then mostly conversions of RTR), I use a 25W Antex with a 1mm tip. It puts the heat where I want it and uses very little solder, which means I have little solder to clean off . For non-ferrous soldering, excluding white metal which I haven't yet needed to try, I use fine rosin cored solder and extra rosin if needed from a tub of the stuff I bought off eBay. It's not a great idea to add more solder just to get more flux! It just leads to extra cleaning up. For soldering ferrous materials I use Carrs acid fluxes because of their etching properties, but I also use safety goggles, it spits as it bubbles. Nasty stuff, I once had to scrap a perfectly good pair of reading glasses because pitting on the lenses caused by acid fluxes, well worth a pair of safety googles.

 

I'm about to do some soldering of fine wires, a 15W for that I think 

 

Cheers

 

David

 

Happy new year and do say hello to all at the club

 

I watched half of a Tony Wright video yesterday whilst doing other things and there were plenty of tips in both soldering techniques and loco building. One was the use of solder to fill gaps, and on etched kits drawing excess solder to inside the body. He uses a Temp controlled iron, just because you have a lot of power you don't have to use it, on the other hand if working on a larger piece there is power to call on, also the tip size matters. I have about 4 different sizes of tips for my antex irons, and my new Iron I bought a selection of 9 differing shapes and sizes

 

As an aside Ian recommended keeping bits for low melt solder away from normal solder, as low melt solder will not fuse with brass etc (you have to tin brass first before soldering it to whitemetal). More importantly low melt on brass of NS melts so quickly and takes ages to solidify. I just clean off the tip on scrap fret.

 

I use lead solder and try and keep away from resin cored wire, preferring to use my own choice of flux.  I don't think there is a right or wrong way, just what either works for you or the method you prefer. 

[PenrithBeacon]

I find that a high wattage iron just heats the workpiece un-necessarily . You will run the risk of distorting the workpiece. A 25 watt iron with a 1mm tip applies heat exactly where I want it.

 

Another tip is to wrap a finished joint in drafting tape then if it does melt the tape holds it in place.

 

I see no need for low melt solder for brass/NS, I don't use it.

 

Cheers

[Steamport Southport]

What makes of flux are everyone using now?

 

I always used Carr's as that was what was readily available and recommended (red/yellow/green). But I hardly see it much now and I'm running low on the stuff I do have.  I've noticed other manufacturers selling flux such as Gaugemaster and DCC Concepts. It's also the fact that when buying Carr's it needs to be sent by courier if bought from Phoenix.

 

So do people still use Carr's or are there better options available?

 

 

Jason

[Barry O]

Never used Carrs. I will stick with fluxite and dilute phosphoric acid as fluxes. They work for me!

Baz

[polybear]

12 hours ago, hayfield said:

As an aside Ian recommended keeping bits for low melt solder away from normal solder, as low melt solder will not fuse with brass etc (you have to tin brass first before soldering it to whitemetal).

 

 

I'd heard the same, though I don't recall where from.  However, when I asked Tony Wright if he practiced this his reply was no (he may also have said that he'd never heard of it before - I'm not sure now).

HTH

[hayfield]

Ian is on youtube in his 5 hour model loco building video stating this, and said he burnt his fingers once when forgetting the tip was hot when changing it

[hayfield]

13 hours ago, PenrithBeacon said:

I find that a high wattage iron just heats the workpiece un-necessarily . You will run the risk of distorting the workpiece. A 25 watt iron with a 1mm tip applies heat exactly where I want it.

 

Another tip is to wrap a finished joint in drafting tape then if it does melt the tape holds it in place.

 

I see no need for low melt solder for brass/NS, I don't use it.

 

Cheers

 

David

 

During ordering my soldering station the technical advisor said there is something about temperature controlled irons in that they heat up very quickly when used and if more heat is required the iron pumps out more power trying to heat up the joint quickly rather than the whole work, when not in use the iron is in a partially dormant state and I think after a period turns itself down/off. Standard irons just pump out heat unregulated, as you say a big wattage and or big tips equal more overall heat

 

8 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

What makes of flux are everyone using now?

 

I always used Carr's as that was what was readily available and recommended (red/yellow/green). But I hardly see it much now and I'm running low on the stuff I do have.  I've noticed other manufacturers selling flux such as Gaugemaster and DCC Concepts. It's also the fact that when buying Carr's it needs to be sent by courier if bought from Phoenix.

 

So do people still use Carr's or are there better options available?

 

 

Jason

 

There are plenty of good general purpose flux's out there and for brass and nickle silver they are fine. Carrs are a bit expensive but very good and there is a range for specific jobs. I have green for use with steel (its very active and needs neutralising) I also use red which is organic for non ferrous and whitemetal and works at low temperatures than red. Yellow (in a plastic pot) is for whitemetal

 

Black for steel and galvanised 

Brown (very strong) stainless steel

Orange, non corrosive for electricals

Grey (very powerful) for aluminum and alloys like Mazac

 

I have used general purpose fluxes for whitemetal without any issues, I guess like anything you pay for quality 

 

Carrs are now distributed by Phoenix/Precision Paints, C&L still sell the fluxes and solder

Edited January 1, 2020 by hayfield

[hayfield]

I hope this may help

 

[Michael Edge]

That list of fluxes is simply mind boggling - and mostly unnecessary. Phosphoric acid fluxes every metal you will use, including stainless steel. The only exception is aluminium which is almost impossible to solder anyway. If used at a reasonable concentration (at least 12% for steel) it's safe, doesn't leave much residue and isn't particularly corrosive - easily washed off with warm water at the end of each day's work.

There's far too much mumbo jumbo about soldering on here, no wonder so many beginners think it's a black art that they will never attempt, never mind master. It's really very simple, you need all the metals at the same temperature (with some flux) and the solder will flow in and make the joint.

Referring to the comment about small irons to control the amount of solder used, anyone on here old enough to remember George Norton's exhibition demos will be familiar with his use of the biggest electric soldering iron I've ever seen to do the smallest and most delicate jobs (as far as I know it was the only iron he ever used and he worked in EM).