West Somerset Railway's future in doubt after £800k loss

[HillsideDepot]

Obviously I'd like to see rail expand and succeed as much as anyone on here, but would-be promoters perhaps should also note that whilst First UK Bus isn't without its own huge problems, and its "Buses of Somerset" operation will never be at the top of the financial performance table, it is under common management with "Kernow" who have made big strides in Cornwall. I can't see them taking any competition from the WSR lying down. 

[Joseph_Pestell]

17 hours ago, DavidCBroad said:

If you run a M-F commuter service 52 weeks per year There is now window for the winter shut down so when does any heavy maintenance get done?   

It may appear to make sense to run shorter formations but shunting with MK1 stock and buckeye couplers is heavy and potentially dangerous work especially for elderly volunteers.    I suspect the economics of using a large loco like a Hall  on 7 as against a 41xx probably balance out but to me its folly using a wide firebox pacific with 22 ton axleload on the line.  The small 9350 Mogul sounds perfect for the job.    Maybe they should build some more.

 

I was thinking more in terms of a Pannier tank or two.

[didcot]

On 24/11/2019 at 16:25, AlexHolt said:

Now I understand that there should be progression but we never got any progression because it was denied by management or we were refused by the older circle of volunteers there that absolutely hated younger people.

You've hit the nail on the head there. Miserable old men as I refer to them. I've encountered it from my late teens and now nearing 50 it still prevails. In not just heritage railways, but we have encountered it at Steam Rallies and model engineering clubs as well. Miserable old men who instead of encouraging youngsters or give advice would just sit there and criticise.

 

I have been very lucky to encounter individuals in my life who have done the opposite and made a lasting impression. Its unfortunate that they now are slowly disappearing, but it has been an honour to know and learn from them.

 

A lot of the old guard don't realise or care that in the 21st Century it takes both parents to work, be parents and do all the chores. Gone are the days of the wife doing all the domestic work. Therefore its impossible to commit to a regular day to volunteer, but you get criticised for only turning up for half a day when you have the time. For me the miserable old men means I rarely volunteer now.

[Joseph_Pestell]

The cost/benefit equation does not look all that good for a public non-heritage operation. And the rival bus service is quite frequent.

 

So I think the future has to be heritage operation (i.e. steam apart from special galas) but with a real focus on cost management, particularly outside of the busiest periods.

[PenrithBeacon]

1 hour ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

The cost/benefit equation does not look all that good for a public non-heritage operation. And the rival bus service is quite frequent.

 

So I think the future has to be heritage operation (i.e. steam apart from special galas) but with a real focus on cost management, particularly outside of the busiest periods.

I like this post but I would add that an additional emphasis on the relationship with the WSRA and its volunteers is essential for if they aren't onside the railway is bound to fail

Cheers

[RedgateModels]

On 24/11/2019 at 13:33, pete_mcfarlane said:

The irony is that a large chunk of the amateur volunteers are (or were) also 'professionals' in their full time jobs, and are more skilled than the full time charity staff. 

 

I know of one at least who was prepared to travel from Nailsea on a regular basis to work on the diesels at the WSR. Last time I spoke to him he's jacked it in, wouldn't say why but muttered about "managment"

[Joseph_Pestell]

Having looked at the WSR website this morning, I note that they have a 45xx under overhaul at the moment. Perhaps worth making the effort to speed that up as it would be a much better loco to use at less busy times.

And why they converted a 61xx to a 93xx lookalike!

People who follow preservation matters more closely than me will know what is out there by way of locomotives. But surely there must be a couple of GW tanks out there that could find more gainful use on the WSR than where they are now.

[Aire Head]

2 hours ago, didcot said:

You've hit the nail on the head there. Miserable old men as I refer to them. I've encountered it from my late teens and now nearing 50 it still prevails. In not just heritage railways, but we have encountered it at Steam Rallies and model engineering clubs as well. Miserable old men who instead of encouraging youngsters or give advice would just sit there and criticise.

 

I have been very lucky to encounter individuals in my life who have done the opposite and made a lasting impression. Its unfortunate that they now are slowly disappearing, but it has been an honour to know and learn from them.

 

A lot of the old guard don't realise or care that in the 21st Century it takes both parents to work, be parents and do all the chores. Gone are the days of the wife doing all the domestic work. Therefore its impossible to commit to a regular day to volunteer, but you get criticised for only turning up for half a day when you have the time. For me the miserable old men means I rarely volunteer now.

 

It's in everything. I used to suffer with it a lot when I was competing at rowing. A lot of the old boys would criticise and do everything they could to hinder our access to training times, equipment and facilities.

 

Likewise when I moved into coaching and I was being paid to coach the local university team I subsequently found out that some of the club members were going behind my back to undermine me with my employer!

[The Stationmaster]

36 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

Having looked at the WSR website this morning, I note that they have a 45xx under overhaul at the moment. Perhaps worth making the effort to speed that up as it would be a much better loco to use at less busy times.

And why they converted a 61xx to a 93xx lookalike!

People who follow preservation matters more closely than me will know what is out there by way of locomotives. But surely there must be a couple of GW tanks out there that could find more gainful use on the WSR than where they are now.

It really depends whether or not the WSR could obtain and use them in a profitable manner.  One thing taking on the likes of 'Tornado' or 'Flying Scotsman'  which have an iconic public image and cachet which in turn creates sufficient extra business and revenue to exceed the costs.  Quite another to hire in, say, a  large prairie which is just 'another steam engine' to the vast majority of punters and potential punters and is thus very unlikely to encourage extra business and might not even achieve a reduction in cost per train mile once all the extra costs are set against the (hopefully) reduced coal bill.

[brack]

3 hours ago, didcot said:

A lot of the old guard don't realise or care that in the 21st Century it takes both parents to work, be parents and do all the chores. Gone are the days of the wife doing all the domestic work. Therefore its impossible to commit to a regular day to volunteer, but you get criticised for only turning up for half a day when you have the time.

Yes, but on reading the rest of your post it isn't so hard to to understand why their wives are happy for them to spend so long out of the house volunteering...

Edited November 29, 2019 by brack

[Rivercider]

I like the WSR and have travelled on it once or twice a year for the last 10 years or so.

I agree an hour long journey each way might be too much for some, but many of the stations are well located such that a number of passengers are not travelling the whole length of the line in my experience. Watchet is very close to the harbour (and 2 museums), and there is the beach at Blue Anchor. If you are up for a bit of a walk then most of the stations offer something of interest.

In recent years I have walked Washford to Watchet along the former route of the West Somerset Mineral Railway.

I have walked along the coast from Dunster to Blue Anchor, another day I walked Minehead to Watchet each day using the train to complete the journey. 

I have also used the parallel no.28 bus service on several occasions, on the journeys I have made it has never been busy, though I have always traveled outside the peaks.

 

cheers

[PenrithBeacon]

Many families will only travel to Dunster because trying to keep children occupied on a longer journey is difficult without all the bits and pieces that you have to take with you on the national network to keep them occupied. Then there is the cost when there are other things to do on holiday and all you want is to give the kids a positive experience not bore them out of their brains. It's just a train ride.

I have thought for many years, and this makes me the Anti-Christ to preservationists, that most preserved lines are too long to cover their costs and it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if there aren't partial or complete closures at some point in the future. Perhaps we are seeing that future unfolding now.

Regards

[DCB]

Its a fact of life in the voluntary sector that the key management skill is in managing volunteers. No matter how successful management are in the commercial sector the disappearance of the pay packet at the weeks end as motivation is a real challenge and many otherwise able people fall at this hurdle. 

Its also a fact of life that oodles of cash are available for new capital projects and sod all for running costs. The trick is to pass off maintenance as betterment,  Sam Fay and Charles Collett were among the experts at this.

However some lines are arguably too long now, the WSR arguably is too short and should start at Taunton.   However we only travel one way, the designated driver drops us at Bishops Lydiard and picks us up at Minehead.

It could be that preserved railways need to step back in time to the days of wooden sleepers and 60 ft lengths of rail .  Something that can be repaired between trains and not in a weekend possession as required with CWR, and which is probably kinder to the ageing locomotives and rolling stock.  Just a thought.

 

[rab]

5 hours ago, Aire Head said:

 

It's in everything. I used to suffer with it a lot when I was competing at rowing. A lot of the old boys would criticise and do everything they could to hinder our access to training times, equipment and facilities.

 

Likewise when I moved into coaching and I was being paid to coach the local university team I subsequently found out that some of the club members were going behind my back to undermine me with my employer!

It's even in church life if the "We've always done it this way" brigade have their way. They sit there week by week in their ever decreasing numbers singing from Hymns Ancient and Modern wondering why nobody new ever comes through the doors.

 

Thankfully its not all like that. The church I'm involved with works hard at trying to meet everyone's likes. We also learn over and over that you can only please some of the people some of the time.

[Aire Head]

49 minutes ago, rab said:

It's even in church life if the "We've always done it this way" brigade have their way. They sit there week by week in their ever decreasing numbers singing from Hymns Ancient and Modern wondering why nobody new ever comes through the doors.

 

Thankfully its not all like that. The church I'm involved with works hard at trying to meet everyone's likes. We also learn over and over that you can only please some of the people some of the time.

 

It was absolutely ridiculous. On one side we had "we never trained as much as you and won more than you so you must be crap" (despite the fact that sports science had progressed somewhat in the previous 20 years since they were doing what we were).

 

On the other side we had "you went to the bar after training and went to events we don't consider to be worthwhile so you clearly aren't taking it seriously and aren't worth the reaources".

 

We had ludicrous situations including veteran crews messaging organiser demanding that they be placed ahead of us at the start (in time trials faster crews set off first to avoid having crews interfering with each other).

 

Predictably we overtook them in no time at which point all of the excuse came out.

 

We also had a problem at a race (the rudder snapped!) and as a result we had a disastrous race, people were overhead describing us as "a disgrace to the club" "I was ashamed to be wearing the kit when they went past" and because the Veterans finally managed to get a better time than us had to endure years of that being our only race that was ever mentioned.

 

The club also wondered why it had a hard time recruiting new members and in particular people between the age of 18-30.

 

I can fully beleive this happens in everything and while undoubtedly is probably no where near as extreme I also suspect that most people aren't as pigheaded as we were.

 

The net result is it becomes impossible to get new people and something great dies for no good reason.

[royaloak]

1 hour ago, rab said:

We also learn over and over that you can only please some of the people some of the time.

The trick is to please ALL of the people often enough they stay interested and keep turning up, if I could bottle that I would have retired years ago.

[brianusa]

The proverbial nail has been hit on its proverbial head;  keep 'em coming back for more.  We make the trek every time we come back home, along with a few other lines.  Sadly its few and far between these days!

     Brian.

[Blandford1969]

I am not a member of the WSR but thought this piece was interesting and gives a different side.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-50481869?fbclid=IwAR07UL-52tp4jCKrHRxutgdmsdnRp3RWD-pflDQ5NbztGwUXj4tKNyWPS5s#

 

For the avoidance of doubt there is no doubt in my mind .........

I wasn’t going to post but given the speed of social media on this subject I felt I needed too or more so wanted too. I also needed to share some thoughts with you as I do monitor some of the comments being made namely with rocks being thrown, those made by people who proclaim to support us, I believe the truth is demonstrated on just how and what these individuals are as behaviour highlights many attributes of individuals. What there purpose in life is to carry on and behave in such way is beyond many of us and when you come to see our true WSR teams around the WSR I can assure you we are all in a good place.

As many of you will know the WSR has had many years of trouble, the latter years have not only seen in-fighting but a poor level of Managment leading to interest being shown by the ORR & latterly the lid off the box on the disastrous accounting issues.

I joined the board September last year and begun what could be commented as a fairly hard ball approach to life, I made decisions that has affected individuals careers and life as we turned around these issues on our journey now as reported on in readiness for our annual AGM.

I have lost friends through those periods with decisions made but these were simply commercial with no emotion. My one aim has been to protect our Railway had to see it prosper, the journey of recovery has been tough to say the least. We still have a number and this is a small number who throw stones, and hurl abuse to our Railway, some even personal. Those people are not welcome, I represent a Railway that has over 1200 loyal volunteers, to tell you we have some extremely special people those who give me the personal fight to do this!!!

As a family we will not allow those that talk Ill of our WSR to succeed and quite frankly it’s becoming boring now listening to those who desire to live there life in such ways. Their records continue to spin with many scratches as it has done for many troubled years - one day soon I am sure that will stop.

The accounting period closes the door for me on the past - yes we have been honest! Surely that’s good, it’s a terrible set of accounts and we knew it would be!! It doesn’t represent where we stand today though but it does summarise what a mess some pushed this into, those some who then still think they can return and do it again? The facts are out there and that’s the truth on the matter. Maybe the some that chose to ignore the truth will now except the situation, I can tell you all this hasn’t been done for fun!

Looking at what we have done this year, we have had a extremely good season, sat a year ago would you think we would of nearly touched as we stand today with a million pounds cash reserve in our bank for example? You have a P & L account that prospers sanity, the Railway is fully in control! We operate a profitable business, a safe Railway, a good Railway, a Railway that completed two further overhauls, committed over 500k in the last 12 months to track through two closed periods, increased the number of events, attracted new volunteers and above most encouraged the youngsters! They for me are the future and we will encourage them to build a bright future, no more holding them back! Set the legacy today and build.

To say that I am very proud is a understatement - I just hope that now as we approach the AGM we allow the changes to bed down and please allow the old girl to breathe again.

Thank you all for your support, you are all very special to me and keep that love within the WSR! You all do a wonderful job - please never forget that and be proud of Your Railway!!!

I also wish to that our small board who have stuck together well, we look forward to the recruitment drive to increase the portfolio holders for 2020 and welcoming our new GM in time, It will all come together ladies and gents.

JJP
Chairman WSR

 

 

[The Johnster]

3 hours ago, DavidCBroad said:

However some lines are arguably too long now, the WSR arguably is too short and should start at Taunton.   

If nails are being hit on heads, this is the biggest one being hit by the biggest hammer.  Bishop's Lydeard is not a suitable terminus station and was of course never designed as one; it is in the middle of nowhere, there is nothing to see or do except watch the loco run around the train, nothing in the immediate vicinity of any note, and most folk are probably happy to get back on the train and head for Watchet or Minehead.  Clearly, the WSR cannot achieve it's proper potential until there is a direct service to Taunton, and there are all sorts of historical and local political reasons why that hasn't happened and is possibly never going to.

[brianusa]

While a valid point, BL is not the ideal but its proximity to the motorway makes it a good option. The village is big enough to be considered a destination for the brief time between trains and has played its part for the life of the WSR.  Would Taunton really be better considering its traffic woes, parking, etc, even if there was a shuttle?

    Brian.

[Dava]

 

 

Quote

 

 

Blandford 1969/Mr JJP has achieved a huge amount towards turning round the WSR. He must have wondered what he took on at times but  the line is much better placed to thrive now than in past years. Maybe he will run 7027 on it one day. Good luck!

 

Dava

[royaloak]

3 hours ago, brianusa said:

While a valid point, BL is not the ideal but its proximity to the motorway makes it a good option. The village is big enough to be considered a destination for the brief time between trains and has played its part for the life of the WSR.  Would Taunton really be better considering its traffic woes, parking, etc, even if there was a shuttle?

    Brian.

Taunton would be much better because it would allow direct links for people to use public transport for the whole journey, that in itself would increase passenger numbers, its just a pity they didnt/couldnt take the option up when the Taunton Area resignalling was done back in the 1980s (I think it was) meaning lots of equipment boxes are now in the way of reinstatement of the line into the bay platform.

[caradoc]

I agree regarding the benefit that running into Taunton would bring the WSR; I have only visited the railway twice, once using a special Gala day Voyager service between Taunton and BL, an excellent facility but no doubt expensive to provide, and the second time by bus between Taunton and BL; I would not repeat that experience and have not been back since. I do however applaud the achievement of all concerned in securing and retaining the railway, and wish it and them every success in the future.

[Joseph_Pestell]

I dropped by at Bishops Lydeard last weekend when on business in the area. I could not work out where visitors who arrive by car would park. So, apparently, not a great place for many to join the train. Perhaps like some other heritage railways e.g. Swanage, they need to create a new parkway style station. There should be space for that adjacent to their trackage at Norton Fitzwarren.

 

Without that, perhaps the best option on cost grounds would be a DMU service from Taunton to Minehead with steam just operating between Williton and Minehead. The WSR is fortunate enough to have well placed loops for flexible timetable operation.

[Joseph_Pestell]

13 hours ago, brianusa said:

While a valid point, BL is not the ideal but its proximity to the motorway makes it a good option. The village is big enough to be considered a destination for the brief time between trains and has played its part for the life of the WSR.  Would Taunton really be better considering its traffic woes, parking, etc, even if there was a shuttle?

    Brian.

 

Near to the M5 in distance, yes. But in time, no. Taunton is one of the most congested places I know due to unending roadworks.

 

May be better if they manage to build the proposed new interchange with the A358 further west and link that to the western ring road.

 

Meantime, I prefer to come off and take the A39 from Bridgwater to Williton. Also slow but a much nicer drive than being stuck in a Taunton traffic jam.

Edited November 30, 2019 by Joseph_Pestell
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