Gresley Junction

[thegreenhowards]

6 hours ago, great northern said:

I would think that it should be Royal Sovereign if available, and if not I believe Ford Castle was the reserve engine. Arguably, you should have Royal Sovereign anyway, as it was booked for a regular daily turn to KX and back. You really do need a B2 Andy.

That is incitement to a recovering locoholic!
 

Seriously, you are right. I’d been put off Royal Sovereign because of the P2 tender and if and when I ever build the rest of the royal train, I can run it with a Pacific on the mainline. But I certainly need a B2 for Cambridge line turns. I have bought a spare B17, a B1 body, a spare B16 tender, an Isinglass B2 drawing and some castle Hedingham plates But that is as far as it’s got. I must promote it up the roundtuit pile!

[John Tomlinson]

Andy, you are probably aware that Graeme King did a B2 on the lines you are proposing.

 

There are some pictures at the start of his thread on the LNER forum, but it appears that the build details, on the old RMWeb, have now been lost as that forum is no longer accessible.

 

John.

[manna]

G'Day Folks

 

And you have the added bonus, of the two Royal 'Claud's' based at Cambridge !

 

manna

[thegreenhowards]

Tonight we feature a Colwick-KX goods headed by O2, 63983. Here it is on the approach to Gresley Jn.

 

 

...and here she is heading through the goods loop at the station.

 

My WTT shows this as a Class F, but I think the fireman must have put the wrong code up - sorry! I’m not sure what goods the train would have carried but I need an excuse to run my pipe and steel train so here it is. The loco is Heljan which I’ve just fitted with a Youchoos sound chip. It’s in the ‘too be weathered when it’s warmer’ queue.

 

You seemed to like the WD ‘chuffing’ through here so I’ve done the same with this train for the video. She is slowed by an adverse signal for a message from the signal box and then accelerates away. I rather like the Gresley 3 cylinder beat (recorded off the K4 and adapted for the O2). I’m afraid that you’ll have to imagine the signal for now!

 

 

 

 

[thegreenhowards]

2 hours ago, John Tomlinson said:

Andy, you are probably aware that Graeme King did a B2 on the lines you are proposing.

 

There are some pictures at the start of his thread on the LNER forum, but it appears that the build details, on the old RMWeb, have now been lost as that forum is no longer accessible.

 

John.

Thanks John,

 

Yes I was aware - that’s what inspired me. I thought his write up was still on the LNER forum as I’m sure I’ve read it and I post date the old RMWeb. I’m sure I can work it out from the diagrams and whatever photos he has available.

 

Andy

[thegreenhowards]

2 hours ago, manna said:

G'Day Folks

 

And you have the added bonus, of the two Royal 'Claud's' based at Cambridge !

 

manna

They would be tempting...and easier than a B2! However, my understanding is that the royal Claude’s at Cambridge were there to do the Cambridge to Sandringham leg of these trains. Did they also work south?

 

[31A]

4 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

That is incitement to a recovering locoholic!
 

Seriously, you are right. I’d been put off Royal Sovereign because of the P2 tender and if and when I ever build the rest of the royal train, I can run it with a Pacific on the mainline. But I certainly need a B2 for Cambridge line turns. I have bought a spare B17, a B1 body, a spare B16 tender, an Isinglass B2 drawing and some castle Hedingham plates But that is as far as it’s got. I must promote it up the roundtuit pile!

 

Wasn't "Royal Sovereign" the only one which kept a standard 4,200 gall tender?  I've been thinking of doing a B2 myself for a long time and have a Hornby B17 and a Crownline conversion kit put aside for it but one thing that's been putting me off is the issue of the tenders - "Royal Sovereign" would be the one I wouldn't want (not for any political reason or anything, but I prefer to steer clear of 'celebrity' locos like that).

 

 

[great northern]

12 hours ago, 31A said:

 

Wasn't "Royal Sovereign" the only one which kept a standard 4,200 gall tender?  I've been thinking of doing a B2 myself for a long time and have a Hornby B17 and a Crownline conversion kit put aside for it but one thing that's been putting me off is the issue of the tenders - "Royal Sovereign" would be the one I wouldn't want (not for any political reason or anything, but I prefer to steer clear of 'celebrity' locos like that).

 

 

That's what both Yeadon and RCTS 2A say. The ex P2 tenders were on 61615/32, and 61671's was group standard.

[Darryl Tooley]

5 minutes ago, great northern said:

That's what both Yeadon and RCTS 2A say. The ex P2 tenders were on 61615/32, and 61671's was group standard.

The confusion arises perhaps because after 61671's withdrawal, the name was transferred to 61632 for about six months until it too was withdrawn.

 

D

[great northern]

43 minutes ago, Darryl Tooley said:

The confusion arises perhaps because after 61671's withdrawal, the name was transferred to 61632 for about six months until it too was withdrawn.

 

D

Looking at Yeadon this morning, it appears that 61632 actually only carried the name in service for a very short time before going to Stratford and being condemned, but I agree that nevertheless be the cause of confusion.

[thegreenhowards]

Thanks Guys, I stand corrected. I know there was a reason why I decided against Royal Sovereign but it looks like my memory has failed me and it wasn’t the P2 tender!

 

It may have been the celebrity loco issue as I tend to agree with Steve on that or maybe just that I thought a standard tender was a bit boring when I could introduce some variety with an ex NER one.

 

Anyway, I’m going to do Castle Hedingham first and then we’ll see...maybe I’ll succumb to Gilbert’s incitement!

 

Andy

[thegreenhowards]

We are approaching the evening peak at Gresley Jn and today I feature the first of the down evening business trains, The West Riding. Here she is emerging from the canal tunnel with A1, 60118, Archibald Sturrock on the nose. The first picture is a telephoto view but has come out rather grainy.

The second is more conventional. I’d be interested in which one people prefer.

Here is another view from slightly further on. This shows the two ex West Riding Limited streamliner twins and the Thompson FO in between them.

 

This is a long train (13 coaches) and difficult to do justice to in a photo. Hopefully the video shows off the full formation.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 6, 2020 by thegreenhowards

[manna]

G'Day Folks

 

There is a photo of one of the 'Royal Claude's' on a UP 'Beer train' passing Welwyn North station, (with a shunting horse and handler, on the Down main) proving they did work normal service trains alone, shined to the max.

 

Like the above photo's, but maybe the camera should have been a bit closer in the first shot !

 

manna

[thegreenhowards]

32 minutes ago, manna said:

G'Day Folks

 

There is a photo of one of the 'Royal Claude's' on a UP 'Beer train' passing Welwyn North station, (with a shunting horse and handler, on the Down main) proving they did work normal service trains alone, shined to the max.

 

Like the above photo's, but maybe the camera should have been a bit closer in the first shot !

 

manna

Thanks Manna,

 

I have seen photos of D16s on the beer trains but not the royal ones, so that’s good to know.

 

With the first photo I was trying to use the line of points to ‘point’ at the loco. But my telephoto/ the light doesn’t seem to have been up to producing a decent image on my iPhone. I might try it on my DSLR in future.
 

Andy

[thegreenhowards]

Today we feature the 1230 Hull-KX. This was quite a short train by ECML express standards, just eight coaches. But it’s claim to fame is that it was the regular working for DELTIC in 1959 and 1960, so here she is on the Summer 1959 formation.

 

 

And again passing through Gresley Jn.

 

It’s actually short enough to be able to Just about see the whole formation. It’s not the most exciting formation though, mainly mark 1s, but it did feature a tourist stock buffet car. Here is mine, built from a RDEB kit.

 

 

Andy

[thegreenhowards]

Tonight on Gresley Jn I have a treat for Clive as it’s DMU time! This Class 105 arrived at 1624 on the Ivatt branch service. There is no direct access to the bay platform from the up line, so the service terminates in platform 6.

 

The train then shunts across to the bay platform to await its return journey at 1740.

 

This is similar to the move which the Moorgate/ KX stoppers had to make at Hatfield where they arrived on the down side and then shunted to the up side prior to departure.

 

Here is a video showing the shunt move. I’m afraid my glamorous assistant (aka, my daughter, Ellen) is at school now so doesn’t have time to help me. And these panning videos need about four hands (and two brains) to do properly. So this one has a couple of ropey bits which you’ll have to excuse. 

 

 

 

[45568]

On 06/12/2020 at 02:13, thegreenhowards said:

That is incitement to a recovering locoholic!
 

Seriously, you are right. I’d been put off Royal Sovereign because of the P2 tender and if and when I ever build the rest of the royal train, I can run it with a Pacific on the mainline. But I certainly need a B2 for Cambridge line turns. I have bought a spare B17, a B1 body, a spare B16 tender, an Isinglass B2 drawing and some castle Hedingham plates But that is as far as it’s got. I must promote it up the roundtuit pile!

Andy,

 Regarding the B2 this pic might help inspire you?

 

It is basically a Hornby B1 fitted with  driving and bogie wheels from a Hornby B17, (Courtesy of Peters Spares), and the tender is from a Hornby Q6. It is easier to work with a B1 as the brake gear etc. is the correct orientation for a B2.

 

This shows the other B2 I completed earlier, which keeps the B1 bogie wheels as it was so fitted.

 For Royal Sovereign, you can use the standard 4200 gal tender as fitted to the current B17s.

 

Hope this helps.

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

 

 

[thegreenhowards]

4 hours ago, 45568 said:

Andy,

 Regarding the B2 this pic might help inspire you?

 

It is basically a Hornby B1 fitted with  driving and bogie wheels from a Hornby B17, (Courtesy of Peters Spares), and the tender is from a Hornby Q6. It is easier to work with a B1 as the brake gear etc. is the correct orientation for a B2.

This shows the other B2 I completed earlier, which keeps the B1 bogie wheels as it was so fitted.

 For Royal Sovereign, you can use the standard 4200 gal tender as fitted to the current B17s.

 

Hope this helps.

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

 

 

Peter,

 

Many thanks for that. Your B2s look good (although as a QPR fan I struggle with seeing pictures of Norwich City - one of our bogie teams!).

 

You got me thinking, if it’s as easy as swapping a few Hornby bits around I’d better get on with it! So I sat down this morning with B1 and B2 drawings and Hornby B1 and B17 donors in front of me. I hadn’t realised just how similar the B2 and B1 are. A few questions:

1. I don’t have Graeme King’s description of how he did it as I think this was lost with the old RMWeb, but he mentioned taking the B17 cab and replacing the B1cab with it. I think this is just for the cut out behind the windows which I see you’ve ignored and I think I could live with that but I may try the swap. Did you consider that?

2. What did you use for the splashers? Are they just plasticard? 
3. The chimney on the B2 looks like a larger diameter. Did you replace yours? If so what with?

4. I wouldn’t have spotted the brake gear issue if you hadn’t mentioned it. Do you think it’s easier swapping the drivers over than altering the brake gear?
 

Andy

 

 

[jwealleans]

Peter's beaten me to that.  I have a picture somewhere of the same conversion done by Dave Somers.  I'm not a fan of the B2 so don't know them well, but it looked the part on Thurston.   There used to be a DMR kit as well which made a lovely model - we had a few of those in the early days.

[bigwordsmith]

Serious question - do DCC controlled locos do a much better job of slow speed running than analogue, or is it just down the analogy operators being more 'progressive'?

[thegreenhowards]

9 minutes ago, bigwordsmith said:

Serious question - do DCC controlled locos do a much better job of slow speed running than analogue, or is it just down the analogy operators being more 'progressive'?

I think the answer is that catch all "it depends"! I will expand!

 

In my experience if you take a good running DC loco and put a DCC chip in it it will not make much difference. It will probably be better able to run at a very low speed. Some people like to challenge each other over how little distance their loco can run in one minute (while still moving!). I think DCC wins for that but it's for the DCC geek, not for me. For normal operation it makes very little difference.

 

On the downside if you take a DC loco with poor pick ups or momentary shorts and put a chip in, it will probably get worse as DCC is more sensitive to hiccups in power and particularly to shorts which can shut the system down whereas in DC it would just exhibit a small stutter.

 

Where DCC wins, IMHO, is in two areas.

 

1. Stay (or keep) alive capacitors. The better chips can have a capacitor added which provides power should the pick ups fail momentarily. This can help with insulfrog points, other track imperfections and small bits of dirt on the pickups or track. Depending on the capacitor there can be enough power for the loco to run several metres without power although this is overkill. I regard these as a must with sound as otherwise you can get crackly sound where the loco loses power for a microsecond. Some chips even have small capacitors built in.

 

2. Momentum. DCC includes a rate of acceleration and deceleration for each loco. This can be programmed. It means a smooth start and stop however clumsy the operator is and allows the operator to concentrate on other things. For example with the DMU video yesterday, all I had to do was to put the controller to speed 7. Then the DMU started off and accelerated on its own while I could concentrate on panning the video. I then shut it back to 0 and let it coast for a bit and finally hit the brake to bring it gently to a stand. I particularly like the Youchoos immersive drive with their sound chips (other brands are available)  which includes the separate coasting and braking like for the DMU. It really makes it feel like driving the loco. I know that similar systems are available in DC from Gaugemaster and others but i think the DCC system works particularly well.

 

So, in summary, DCC can make slow speed better or worse but it certainly enables and encourages the operator to exploit low speed running better.

 

That's my experience - others will doubtless differ!

 

Andy

[bigwordsmith]

Thanks Andy - I've been gnawing at the question as I have about 200 locos so at £20 a pop DCC would not be a cheap option!

[thegreenhowards]

38 minutes ago, bigwordsmith said:

Thanks Andy - I've been gnawing at the question as I have about 200 locos so at £20 a pop DCC would not be a cheap option!

Try it with sound at £110 a pop!

 

Seriously, you can’t use all 200 locos. Could you thin out your fleet to fund some chips? However, if a lot of them are kit built, I’d think twice as they’re a lot more hassle to convert.

 

For a good basic chip, I would recommend LAIS DCC (Chinese) at £10 each or £20 with stayalive. In my experience they’re better than the ‘western’ budget chips at £20 each. Although once you get to Zimo and the other specialist DCC suppliers then their chips are probably better still. But for stop/ go and smooth running LAIS give you everything you need.

 

I now exclusively use Zimo for sound and LAIS for non sound.

[thegreenhowards]

Tonight it’s the turn of the down Talisman, 1600 off KX. This evening it’s headed by 60039, Sandwich.

You’ve seen this rake before and will see it again so I won’t linger on the coaches, but here is a shot rounding the gasworks curve.

 

...and another of Sandwich herself.

 

[45568]

12 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

Peter,

 

Many thanks for that. Your B2s look good (although as a QPR fan I struggle with seeing pictures of Norwich City - one of our bogie teams!).

 

You got me thinking, if it’s as easy as swapping a few Hornby bits around I’d better get on with it! So I sat down this morning with B1 and B2 drawings and Hornby B1 and B17 donors in front of me. I hadn’t realised just how similar the B2 and B1 are. A few questions:

1. I don’t have Graeme King’s description of how he did it as I think this was lost with the old RMWeb, but he mentioned taking the B17 cab and replacing the B1cab with it. I think this is just for the cut out behind the windows which I see you’ve ignored and I think I could live with that but I may try the swap. Did you consider that?

2. What did you use for the splashers? Are they just plasticard? 
3. The chimney on the B2 looks like a larger diameter. Did you replace yours? If so what with?

4. I wouldn’t have spotted the brake gear issue if you hadn’t mentioned it. Do you think it’s easier swapping the drivers over than altering the brake gear?
 

Andy

 

 

Hi Andy,

               Rather than answer your questions piecemeal and there does seem to be some interest in the conversion, over the next couple of days I will describe the work more fully in the modified RTR thread and place a link to it.

 As you can see, answers from the Antipodes suffer from time difference!!

 

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.