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Gresley Junction


thegreenhowards
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1 hour ago, great northern said:

Glad to hear you are feeling better, Andy, and that it wasn't a seriously bad experience. As to the coaching question, all I can add is that, based on the Summer 58 CWN, there seemed to be a general policy that the West Riding, Hull and Doncaster formations would be mainly all door stock, whereas the Newcastle and Scotland formations would have end vestibule cars. More station stops for the former, therefore more opportunity for passengers to get in and out quickly, could be the reason?

 

Most of the SO West Riding trains were made up of a combination of 8 or 10 all door seconds, three 3 compartment BSKs and two Thompson composites. That of course was in principle, I'm sure what happened in practise sometimes differed, especially if the train concerned had no provision for reserving seats. The East Coast sets generally specified 7 or 8 end door SKs, plus usually an FK, not MK1, and two four compartment brakes. If there was catering, it would be RF/SO, except when it wasn't! There were exceptions both in the Main Line and East Coast books.

 


Thanks Gilbert,

 

That fits with my reading of the CWN. The thing I can’t understand is that one rarely sees photos of uniform rakes of Gresley SKs but one does see photos of mixtures of coaches with oddities like my tourist twin in them. So I’m assuming that, in practice, it was a case of digging out what was available and running that. I’ll continue to do so until I’m proved wrong!

 

Andy

 

 

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Today I feature my engineers’ train. This is normally headed by my J6, but as this who follow Wright Writes will have seen, when I dug it out it was not up to the job - low on power. So today, J3, 64140 is in charge.

9B9414C3-C5D0-45F6-84A4-944D4AFAC25A.jpeg.923566238b27523edac67616c7cbf5a7.jpeg


I’m quite pleased with the train which is all kit built apart from the leading Shark (Hornby). A couple of the Grampus were bought second hand (£1 each!) and renovated - the rest built by me.

 

I’ve now put a new motor in the J6 and it works much better than it ever had before, so I will be finding something for that to work soon.

 

Here’s the video of the J3. 
 

https://youtu.be/Ingp3guTN4E

 

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:


Thanks Gilbert,

 

That fits with my reading of the CWN. The thing I can’t understand is that one rarely sees photos of uniform rakes of Gresley SKs but one does see photos of mixtures of coaches with oddities like my tourist twin in them. So I’m assuming that, in practice, it was a case of digging out what was available and running that. I’ll continue to do so until I’m proved wrong!

 

Andy

 

 

The one thing that I've had to come to terms with when putting together my Saturday sequence is that most of the time it didn't happen that way at all. I suspect that in practice there was just a constant queue of trains, more or less block to block. I can't recall reading that the Eastern ever sank to the depths recounted in that very interesting book Summer Saturdays in the West, but there was plenty of late running. As the whole thing relied on some trains being turned around in the platforms at KX, I wonder what happened when the Up train was running very late? Did someone have to rustle up a scratch rake at very short notice? If so, it would have to be whatever could be gathered together very quickly. Peter Coster alludes to that in his captions to the Books of the Great Northern, and observations in Railway Observer show some very odd inclusions in trains leaving KX. RO also says that Cambridge sets were pressed into use at the busiest times, sometimes on Newcastle trains.

 

I always smile a little when I see the annotation "KX to secure". Much easier for the writer of the CWN to decree than for the poor devil who had to try to find it. I think all we can do is to strike a balance between what the CWN says should have happened, and the unusual things which undoubtedly occurred, ensuring that the unusual doesn't actually become the norm.

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22 minutes ago, great northern said:

The one thing that I've had to come to terms with when putting together my Saturday sequence is that most of the time it didn't happen that way at all. I suspect that in practice there was just a constant queue of trains, more or less block to block. I can't recall reading that the Eastern ever sank to the depths recounted in that very interesting book Summer Saturdays in the West, but there was plenty of late running. As the whole thing relied on some trains being turned around in the platforms at KX, I wonder what happened when the Up train was running very late? Did someone have to rustle up a scratch rake at very short notice? If so, it would have to be whatever could be gathered together very quickly. Peter Coster alludes to that in his captions to the Books of the Great Northern, and observations in Railway Observer show some very odd inclusions in trains leaving KX. RO also says that Cambridge sets were pressed into use at the busiest times, sometimes on Newcastle trains.

 

I always smile a little when I see the annotation "KX to secure". Much easier for the writer of the CWN to decree than for the poor devil who had to try to find it. I think all we can do is to strike a balance between what the CWN says should have happened, and the unusual things which undoubtedly occurred, ensuring that the unusual doesn't actually become the norm.

I agree. I look forward to seeing your SO timetable in action. You will need a very large number of Gresleys! Or more likely reuse some many many times! Particularly looking forward to the speeding 9F!

 

I have an article somewhere on a day in the life of KX on a 50s Summer Saturday. Have you seen it? If not would you like me to try to find it?

 

Andy

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Just now, thegreenhowards said:

I agree. I look forward to seeing your SO timetable in action. You will need a very large number of Gresleys! Or more likely reuse some many many times!

 

I have an article somewhere on a day in the life of KX on a 50s Summer Saturday. Have you seen it? If not would you like me to try to find it?

 

Andy

I have a Trains Illustrated article Andy. If you have something other than that I would be very interested to see it.

 

As to the Saturday sequence, it also needs more V2s, so will be on hold until they arrive, and Tim has time to work his magic on them. Pragmatism is very much the word when it comes to carriage workings. I have a rake of eight very nice Gresley and Thompson end vestibule stock, plus my Willets Gresley FO and FK. They will be very busy, as will the eight decent all door Gresley seconds I hope to have available fairly shortly.

 

If the world was anywhere like normal, I'd be getting some more of the latest Bachmann Thompson SKs, but there are none of those to be had anywhere.

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18 hours ago, great northern said:

I have a Trains Illustrated article Andy. If you have something other than that I would be very interested to see it.

 

I thought mine was Railway Magazine but when I found it, it was Trains Illustrated: “Summer Saturday at Kings Cross”. I assume that is the same one you have? A good read!

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I ran some more trains yesterday - this Covid is good at forcing me to play trains! D5312 left with the quad art set and was replaced by this rare spotted beast.
82D6E860-E877-4621-B650-38EA923ABA73.jpeg.a58b0fb2cb1b5ffd923812b3243ca27b.jpeg

 

If a driver was relieved to get off a Baby Deltic without it breaking down then they’d be truly amazed with one if these! I’ve only seen one photo of one working on a passenger train on the GN whereas there are lots of the Baby Deltics. So whether a scene like this ever happened, I’ve no idea. But I’ve bought the loco, so I’m going to use it!

 

…and here’s the proof that mine, at least, works.

 

 

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6 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

I ran some more trains yesterday - this Covid is good at forcing me to play trains! D5312 left with the quad art set and was replaced by this rare spotted beast.
82D6E860-E877-4621-B650-38EA923ABA73.jpeg.a58b0fb2cb1b5ffd923812b3243ca27b.jpeg

 

If a driver was relieved to get off a Baby Deltic without it breaking down then they’d be truly amazed with one if these! I’ve only seen one photo of one working on a passenger train on the GN whereas there are lots of the Baby Deltics. So whether a scene like this ever happened, I’ve no idea. But I’ve bought the loco, so I’m going to use it!

 

…and here’s the proof that mine, at least, works.

 

 

Gresley Junction shed foreman. "You've come up driving what!! Right, you can get back in it and beggar off back down south, I'm not risking that in my shed!"
I think it's a good model.
It could have been worse, it could have been an 8400!

Regards,
Chris.

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Next up I feature the repaired J6. As explained above, this was sitting on my engineers’ train but could barely move it so was removed for repairs. A new motor later and she is better than ever. The old motor, a Mashima 1220, was seriously underpowered for the job but the new Mitsumi performs well. 
 

Today she is hauling a down oil trip and is recessing as Gresley Jn hence the need to cross to the goods loop. I’m sorry this is a bit grainy, I think I zoomed in a bit further than my iPhone is capable of!

019A0C44-30CB-46ED-A193-B6A11B987050.jpeg.99dc061beed539a44df3b6b1cb0fba83.jpeg
 

Here’s the video.

 


 

 

Edited by thegreenhowards
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Hi Andy

 

I am interested in the Mitsumi motor for the J6.  I have two J6s with those 1220 Mashimas and the locos are quite underpowered, but perhaps not as much as your one.  I've been looking for replacement motors for a while but not seen anything too suitable.

 

Kind regards
Tony

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4 hours ago, trw1089 said:

Hi Andy

 

I am interested in the Mitsumi motor for the J6.  I have two J6s with those 1220 Mashimas and the locos are quite underpowered, but perhaps not as much as your one.  I've been looking for replacement motors for a while but not seen anything too suitable.

 

Kind regards
Tony

Hi Tony,

 

My J6 was the first kit built chassis I built after I’d been to see ‘Sir’ and had some tuition. I was definitely still learning and it may not be as friction free as it should be. Plus the loco is all white metal and quite heavy. So it may not be a fair test of the poor motor which seems to run fine on the bench.

 

The Mitsumi I used is one of the ones sold by John Isherwood at Cambridge Custom Transfers https://www.cctrans.org.uk. I’m told you can get similar motors even cheaper on ebay but there is a large selection so I’m happier going for a recommended one as I’m no expert. This one had holes to match the gearbox and the same shaft diameter at the Mashima so it was a straight swap (apart from a lot of white metal filing to get it to fit!).  There was some discussion on this on Wright Writes a few days ago starting here.

 

 

 

 

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Today we see why the J6 was recessed. It’s an outer suburban service headed by L1, 67785. This is the standard mid/ late ‘50s outer suburban non corridor formation.

 

EF23AE81-3702-49B6-846E-9245CA820B5A.jpeg.23c4caba688f6a4bafa0e4f8a0226448.jpeg
 

The video shows it starting away from the station and follows it round the layout  as far as I could panning the iPhone on my tripod. The control is not as smooth as I’d like as it’s really a two person job but my daughter, who normally helps, can’t come near me because of Covid! It’s slightly longer than normal but I hope you agree it’s worth it.

 


 

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5 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

Today we see why the J6 was recessed. It’s an outer suburban service headed by L1, 67785. This is the standard mid/ late ‘50s outer suburban non corridor formation.

 

EF23AE81-3702-49B6-846E-9245CA820B5A.jpeg.23c4caba688f6a4bafa0e4f8a0226448.jpeg
 

The video shows it starting away from the station and follows it round the layout  as far as I could panning the iPhone on my tripod. The control is not as smooth as I’d like as it’s really a two person job but my daughter, who normally helps, can’t come near me because of Covid! It’s slightly longer than normal but I hope you agree it’s worth it.

 


 

Love a big tank engine.
The L1's took over the sburban services from Manchester Piccadilly from the A5's.
Both make an appearance at Manchester Oldham Road.
Great video once again.
Regards,
Chris.

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1 hour ago, Sandhole said:

Love a big tank engine.
The L1's took over the sburban services from Manchester Piccadilly from the A5's.
Both make an appearance at Manchester Oldham Road.
Great video once again.
Regards,
Chris.

I like the L1s but they weren’t a great success by all accounts. I really fancy an A5 and I have one half built. Whether I finish it before the RTR one arrives is debateable!

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This is one of the more complex manoeuvres on a Gresley Jn, the arrival of the coal trip and departure of the empties. It’s hauled by a J50, 68929 in this case and the move starts by dropping off the brake van in platform 2. Then the loaded coal wagons are placed in the coal siding as seen below.

F5E99121-679D-4DE8-B517-FBBB02A5CC29.jpeg.5bd6589388cb07be6d18ac167efe8938.jpeg
 

from there the J50 collects the empties from a different siding and backs them into the brake van. This move is shown in the video which, be warned, is quite long today (4 mins).

 

 

After that the wagons depart for the North but I didn’t capture that part.

 

This train took some shaking down. I’m sure it used to operate ok but I couldn’t get the reversing part to work without derailments. Perhaps I was less fussy when not videoing! I ended up replacing all the coupling with fixed 3D printed 3 link couplings which fit into the NEM pockets. It previously had the similiar ‘floppy’ versions but they allowed buffer lock. The wagons are fixed in rakes of 3 or 4 with Hunt magnetic couplings inbetween to make transporting easier. I also had to replace an old Mainline style wheel set with Romfords. The rake now behaves itself.

 

 

Edited by thegreenhowards
Adding the bit about couplings
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I’ve been doing a lot of running this week, so I’ve got a backlog of pictures. Therefore I thought I’d show a second one today. This is WD 2-8-0, 90559, on the down coal empties.
7EE965A7-9FD7-4BB5-9D29-47525AA26FE6.jpeg.3e1c79d3ea5aa6a378837a604bcef0f4.jpeg
 

Remember that all the trains I’m running at the moment live in the fiddle yard rather than in cassettes or other storage. For a long time I didn’t have a coal empties, but this one fits with 30 wagons in a lay back siding and the other 10 come from the empties off the coal trip as shown above - you may recognise the first 10 wagons! These are combined in the fiddle yard to give a decent length train. This one runs very smoothly, but I find it impossible to get it back into the lay back siding without some derailments - any tips gratefully received. 
 

Here is the video.


 

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Next up was a real problem rake. This is the west Riding c.1951.

FA915049-672A-4F8B-8F9E-5303C3E8CA04.jpeg.2f1d03de5d4a32d4b601418e81c8950d.jpeg
 

This is one of my heaviest rakes and it has always been at the limit for a Bachmann A1 and many of my kit built locos struggle as well. However, on starting it up from the fiddle yard, the loco was really struggling and ground to a halt on the bend out of the station - not wheel slipping, just an ominous hum from the motor! I tried my more modern Bachmann A1, LNER green 60117 and that could manage the rake with a bit of a struggle whereas in the past it has been fine. And to make matters worse, the train derailed in several places!
 

So I decided that a full coach service was in order. I cleaned the wheels, oiled the bearings and checked the back to backs on every coach. After that 60117 managed easily but the coaches still derailed. I replaced some of the hook and goalpost couplings with 0.45mm brass wire instead of the 0.7mm with which they were fitted and replaced a tension lock which was hooking into a ‘goal’ with wire as well. ‘Sir’ has always told me that 0.45mm wire is better as it gives some spring. This sorted all of the problems apart from one which was the centre bogie on an artic pair. I turned that through 180 degrees and it was fine - no idea why as it looks symmetrical but I’ll mark it now and leave well alone.
 

This is quite a topical rake as it Includes two of the ex Coronation artic pairs which are much discussed at the moment after Hornby’s announcement. This one is Mailcoach sides with the rest from bits and pieces which I built myself having got one of the last few pairs of sides from Coopercraft.

 

74E0F96B-28A6-48CD-9871-90EA558D354A.jpeg.3991d4878360dad36e44e86b9ceb8774.jpeg

The other is all metal ex Gamston bank as mentioned on Wright Writes recently. This is the one which was causing all the problems with hook and goalpost couplings and bogies the wrong way round but is hopefully sorted now.

 

F868032B-1907-4096-BAD2-B07F8627DE3A.jpeg.0954d38e5127468998075619cf426e9a.jpeg 

 

The rake is a bit of a compromise because I don’t have a crimson and cream ex coronation FO pair. I use a Thompson FO (Southern Pride on Bachmann) instead. I know they substituted from time to time in the early ‘50s so that is what I am modelling. Later on a Thompson FOreplaced the Coronation FO pair. However that was after the back of the train went mark 1 and I like the all LNER look.
 

Having sorted the running with 60117, I tried 60118 again. It can now manage, but it struggles, so I will stick with 60117 for now. 60117 was painted blue in July 1050 and my rake is based on 1951. I don’t have a CWN for 1950, so I just have to hope the formation was similar then. I will have to experiment with ways of beefing up a blue A1 for the rake - maybe a chassis swap. 
 

So while you got 60118 for the photo above, you have 60117 in the video.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by thegreenhowards
Getting photos in the right place.
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3 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

Next up was a real problem rake. This is the west Riding c.1951.

FA915049-672A-4F8B-8F9E-5303C3E8CA04.jpeg.2f1d03de5d4a32d4b601418e81c8950d.jpeg
 

This is one of my heaviest rakes and it has always been at the limit for a Bachmann A1 and many of my kit built locos struggle as well. However, on starting it up from the fiddle yard, the loco was really struggling and ground to a halt on the bend out of the station - not wheel slipping, just an ominous hum from the motor! I tried my more modern Bachmann A1, LNER green 60117 and that could manage the rake with a bit of a struggle whereas in the past it has been fine. And to make matters worse, the train derailed in several places!
 

So I decided that a full coach service was in order. I cleaned the wheels, oiled the bearings and checked the back to backs on every coach. After that 60117 managed easily but the coaches still derailed. I replaced some of the hook and goalpost couplings with 0.45mm brass wire instead of the 0.7mm with which they were fitted and replaced a tension lock which was hooking into a ‘goal’ with wire as well. ‘Sir’ has always told me that 0.45mm wire is better as it gives some spring. This sorted all of the problems apart from one which was the centre bogie on an artic pair. I turned that through 180 degrees and it was fine - no idea why as it looks symmetrical but I’ll mark it now and leave well alone.
 

This is quite a topical rake as it Includes two of the ex Coronation artic pairs which are much discussed at the moment after Hornby’s announcement. This one is Mailcoach sides with the rest from bits and pieces which I built myself having got one of the last few pairs of sides from Coopercraft.

 

74E0F96B-28A6-48CD-9871-90EA558D354A.jpeg.3991d4878360dad36e44e86b9ceb8774.jpeg

The other is all metal ex Gamston bank as mentioned on Wright Writes recently. This is the one which was causing all the problems with hook and goalpost couplings and bogies the wrong way round but is hopefully sorted now.

 

F868032B-1907-4096-BAD2-B07F8627DE3A.jpeg.0954d38e5127468998075619cf426e9a.jpeg 

 

The rake is a bit of a compromise because I don’t have a crimson and cream ex coronation FO pair. I use a Thompson FO (Southern Pride on Bachmann) instead. I know they substituted from time to time in the early ‘50s so that is what I am modelling. Later on a Thompson FOreplaced the Coronation FO pair. However that was after the back of the train went mark 1 and I like the all LNER look.
 

Having sorted the running with 60117, I tried 60118 again. It can now manage, but it struggles, so I will stick with 60117 for now. 60117 was painted blue in July 1050 and my rake is based on 1951. I don’t have a CWN for 1950, so I just have to hope the formation was similar then. I will have to experiment with ways of beefing up a blue A1 for the rake - maybe a chassis swap. 
 

So while you got 60118 for the photo above, you have 60117 in the video.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lovely set of pictures and videos Andy.

 

Unless your 60118 is a renumber, it isn't one of the earliest batch of A1's, so should have a decent motor. I actually can't remember which variants had which issues, my four have all been through "Works", with various mods, the first two bought as 60147 and 60158 went back to Bachmann for new motors. These were the very first batch, I took them to Barwell myself and on opening the door saw a great pile of A1's awaiting the trip back to China! A long time ago, Midland Counties books was just down the road and a good day out until some macho management idiot decided to close it down.

 

Worth checking the springs on pony and bogie aren't either too strong, or too thick so that their wheels can't sit above the level of the drivers when the springs are compressed. The tender wheels varied a bit on mine as well from memory, some being quite stiff.

 

I put some lead in the smokebox, and a bit around the motor area, though this may not be possible for you with a DCC Chip. Every little helps as they say.

 

You mention as well your WD +30 derails in reverse. I wonder if any of the axles are a bit stiff here, as this could cause a problem. Presumably they buffer up OK on reversing, although as the wagons are similar in length the bit extra on the 21t 'ers shouldn't make that much difference. I wonder if it might be the "S" bend on the layout, try stopping the train as you go through it, drawing forward a bit and then reversing again, it might indicate that the buffers aren't sliding against each other as they need to.

 

I remain astounded by your level of output.

 

John.

Edited by John Tomlinson
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22 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

Next up was a real problem rake. This is the west Riding c.1951.

FA915049-672A-4F8B-8F9E-5303C3E8CA04.jpeg.2f1d03de5d4a32d4b601418e81c8950d.jpeg
 

This is one of my heaviest rakes and it has always been at the limit for a Bachmann A1 and many of my kit built locos struggle as well. However, on starting it up from the fiddle yard, the loco was really struggling and ground to a halt on the bend out of the station - not wheel slipping, just an ominous hum from the motor! I tried my more modern Bachmann A1, LNER green 60117 and that could manage the rake with a bit of a struggle whereas in the past it has been fine. And to make matters worse, the train derailed in several places!
 

So I decided that a full coach service was in order. I cleaned the wheels, oiled the bearings and checked the back to backs on every coach. After that 60117 managed easily but the coaches still derailed. I replaced some of the hook and goalpost couplings with 0.45mm brass wire instead of the 0.7mm with which they were fitted and replaced a tension lock which was hooking into a ‘goal’ with wire as well. ‘Sir’ has always told me that 0.45mm wire is better as it gives some spring. This sorted all of the problems apart from one which was the centre bogie on an artic pair. I turned that through 180 degrees and it was fine - no idea why as it looks symmetrical but I’ll mark it now and leave well alone.
 

This is quite a topical rake as it Includes two of the ex Coronation artic pairs which are much discussed at the moment after Hornby’s announcement. This one is Mailcoach sides with the rest from bits and pieces which I built myself having got one of the last few pairs of sides from Coopercraft.

 

74E0F96B-28A6-48CD-9871-90EA558D354A.jpeg.3991d4878360dad36e44e86b9ceb8774.jpeg

The other is all metal ex Gamston bank as mentioned on Wright Writes recently. This is the one which was causing all the problems with hook and goalpost couplings and bogies the wrong way round but is hopefully sorted now.

 

F868032B-1907-4096-BAD2-B07F8627DE3A.jpeg.0954d38e5127468998075619cf426e9a.jpeg 

 

The rake is a bit of a compromise because I don’t have a crimson and cream ex coronation FO pair. I use a Thompson FO (Southern Pride on Bachmann) instead. I know they substituted from time to time in the early ‘50s so that is what I am modelling. Later on a Thompson FOreplaced the Coronation FO pair. However that was after the back of the train went mark 1 and I like the all LNER look.
 

Having sorted the running with 60117, I tried 60118 again. It can now manage, but it struggles, so I will stick with 60117 for now. 60117 was painted blue in July 1050 and my rake is based on 1951. I don’t have a CWN for 1950, so I just have to hope the formation was similar then. I will have to experiment with ways of beefing up a blue A1 for the rake - maybe a chassis swap. 
 

So while you got 60118 for the photo above, you have 60117 in the video.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fascinating stuff Andy,

 

I'm not sure when the articulated FOs were taken out of The West Riding, but there's an interesting picture of 60128 in The Power of the A1s by Gavin Morrison showing the loco leaving Kings Cross on the train on the 4th of July 1949. What's visible is the BTO/TO pair and one end of the FO/FO duo (I assume the RTO/TO pair will be next). Now, the caption to the B&W picture claims the cars are 'in red and cream', but I think they're still in two-tone blue, because the division band is right at the base of the windows, whereas, when these cars were first repainted into C/C, the division band (which was lined) was lower, leaving a cream strip below the windows, correctly as on your models. 

 

The loco is in blue, but still un-named. An interesting combination, and one possibility for Hornby (a blue A3 or A4), as long as the skirtings are removed from the carriages. It could be that the solebar covers have been removed as well.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited by Tony Wright
typo error
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I've been doing more looking with regard to how the ex-Streamliners might have looked post-War. 

 

It could be that there were two styles of carmine cream painting - first, where the division was immediately below the windows (pages 48 and 49 of the Banks Carter book) and with the cream band below the windows (a shot of BLUE PETER on the Aberdonian in The Power of the A2s by Gavin Morrison). 

 

Interesting. I'm putting this topic on Wright writes as well. 

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7 hours ago, John Tomlinson said:

 

Lovely set of pictures and videos Andy.

Thanks John, I do appreciate your comments. I find the feedback very helpful and enjoy the discussions.

7 hours ago, John Tomlinson said:

 

Unless your 60118 is a renumber, it isn't one of the earliest batch of A1's, so should have a decent motor. I actually can't remember which variants had which issues, my four have all been through "Works", with various mods, the first two bought as 60147 and 60158 went back to Bachmann for new motors. These were the very first batch, I took them to Barwell myself and on opening the door saw a great pile of A1's awaiting the trip back to China! A long time ago, Midland Counties books was just down the road and a good day out until some macho management idiot decided to close it down.

it’s a renumbered ‘North British’. So one of what I call the middle batch. Much better than the first two, but not as strong as the most recent ones with the DCC chip in the tender. I only have two of the latter, 60117 which is straight out of the box with no weight and 60139 which I bought second hand. Both pull very well. 

7 hours ago, John Tomlinson said:

 

Worth checking the springs on pony and bogie aren't either too strong, or too thick so that their wheels can't sit above the level of the drivers when the springs are compressed. The tender wheels varied a bit on mine as well from memory, some being quite stiff.

 

I put some lead in the smokebox, and a bit around the motor area, though this may not be possible for you with a DCC Chip. Every little helps as they say.


 

it’s not weight or springing. I have added some lead but the wheels don’t slip. It just can’t cope on the bends or slight (unintentional) inclines and grinds to a halt with a nasty hum from the motor. I think I will try my DJH ones on it tomorrow. They’re green so not really suitable, but it might suggest a way forward.

7 hours ago, John Tomlinson said:

You mention as well your WD +30 derails in reverse. I wonder if any of the axles are a bit stiff here, as this could cause a problem. Presumably they buffer up OK on reversing, although as the wagons are similar in length the bit extra on the 21t 'ers shouldn't make that much difference. I wonder if it might be the "S" bend on the layout, try stopping the train as you go through it, drawing forward a bit and then reversing again, it might indicate that the buffers aren't sliding against each other as they need to.

 

The problem with the WD is reversing into the kick back in the fiddle yard which is across some relatively old Peco points (the ones with the fat frogs - with hindsight definitely a false economy to reuse them!) and then round a c.4 foot radius curve ending behind the viaduct back scene. All in all a bit tight. These photos may give you an idea.

7C05B6F8-63BA-4020-87D5-68582258D8F6.jpeg.d67603f0bd1814395de344f98c9a5cb6.jpeg

 

The WD is behind the green SR van and has to reverse across the points to the right.
62FCCC2C-F976-4D8B-8791-AD569A8328CD.jpeg.0566ffac1bf40f82fd16278053112976.jpeg

The problems come with wagons buffer locking as the buffers ride over each other either round the curve or on the uneven bits through the points. The ones with 3 links are worse which include the 21 toners which are old colourful Hornby ones repainted. What I should really do is rip up and re-lay the point work but that would mean dismantling the shelves above which would be a lot of work. The other solution would be to fit  all the wagons with the fixed 3 links like on the 10 which do the gas trip, but that would require retrofitting NEM pockets to a lot of wagons. I will give it further thought but as it’s on the non scenic side it’s not top of the priority list - visitors don’t see it!

 

7 hours ago, John Tomlinson said:

 

I remain astounded by your level of output.

 

John.

Thanks, but that may drop off now as I’m out of self isolation. I went back to my beloved QPR this afternoon to see us snatch a glorious 89th minute winner - hence the delayed response.

Edited by thegreenhowards
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4 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Fascinating stuff Andy,

 

I'm not sure when the articulated FOs were taken out of The West Riding, but there's an interesting picture of 60128 in The Power of the A1s by Gavin Morrison showing the loco leaving Kings Cross on the train on the 4th of July 1949. What's visible is the TSO/TO pair and one end of the FO/FO duo (I assume the RTO/TO pair will be next). Now, the caption to the B&W picture claims the cars are 'in red and cream', but I think they're still in two-tone blue, because the division band is right at the base of the windows, whereas, when these cars were first repainted into C/C, the division band (which was lined) was lower, leaving a cream strip below the windows, correctly as on your models. 

 

The loco is in blue, but still un-named. An interesting combination, and one possibility for Hornby (a blue A3 or A4), as long as the skirtings are removed from the carriages. It could be that the solebar covers have been removed as well.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Evening Tony,

 

It is fascinating isn’t it! I could have given you chapter and verse on it when I formed this rake up but that was 3 or 4 years ago and my memory is not what is was. 
 

I will try and dig some research out tomorrow but what I can say in the meantime is that the 1951 CWN shows the train with first six coaches being the three ex Coronation twins and then mainly Thompsons but with two Gresleys towards the rear like on mine.  The 1954/5 CWN shows it with two ex Coronation artic twins and the Thompson FO vice the twin FO but with the rest of the train as mark 1s. There is a photo of it like this in the Power of the A1s a few pages after yours with 60131 at the head. 

 

I can’t add much on the livery but the photo of 60131 definitely shows the cream band stretching below the windows. I’m sure I read somewhere that they were all repainted from the blue livery before entering service after the war but there is a picture of the twin on the Aberdeen sleeper in blue.

 

Now time for Match of the Day so I will sign off for tonight.

 

Best Regards

 

Andy

 

 

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