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Gresley Junction


thegreenhowards
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5 minutes ago, bigwordsmith said:

Thanks for reminding me - my current whole room would easily fit into one half of yours.

 

My last one was 34' long though and I recall thinking it was actually a pain because I could't really see which locos were which at the opposite end of the room!

I’m very lucky - mine is 31x10 feet, but is split into two rooms, although I’ve removed the door between them. It really needs two people to operate well - not really practical during lockdown unless I drag one of my children up there!

 

I’m enjoying running one train a day though.

 

Andy

 

 

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G'Day Folks

 

But one must admit, that when N gauge trains come into view and just keep getting bigger as they get closer, always gives me a buzz, and my layout is 'Only' 20'x8'.

 

manna

Edited by manna
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All this natter about room and layout size is interesting. I think as modellers we have our own visions on what our ideal layout should be like. Some people are lucky and have that space to do what they want. Most of us get trapped into an area where our ideal layout is compromised. I feel lucky I have a 20ft by 15ft room which I have been able to achieve almost what I would like. The biggest compromise has been train length, I would have liked another 2 or 3 carriages longer, having said that any bigger might have been greater than my ability to build and maintain my ideal layout. My greatest achievement is a layout I enjoy operating, what could be better than that. 

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4 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

All this natter about room and layout size is interesting. I think as modellers we have our own visions on what our ideal layout should be like. Some people are lucky and have that space to do what they want. Most of us get trapped into an area where our ideal layout is compromised. I feel lucky I have a 20ft by 15ft room which I have been able to achieve almost what I would like. The biggest compromise has been train length, I would have liked another 2 or 3 carriages longer, having said that any bigger might have been greater than my ability to build and maintain my ideal layout. My greatest achievement is a layout I enjoy operating, what could be better than that. 

More length is always a Good Thing.

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1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said:

All this natter about room and layout size is interesting. I think as modellers we have our own visions on what our ideal layout should be like. Some people are lucky and have that space to do what they want. Most of us get trapped into an area where our ideal layout is compromised. I feel lucky I have a 20ft by 15ft room which I have been able to achieve almost what I would like. The biggest compromise has been train length, I would have liked another 2 or 3 carriages longer, having said that any bigger might have been greater than my ability to build and maintain my ideal layout. My greatest achievement is a layout I enjoy operating, what could be better than that. 

That surprises me Clive, from the videos you post it looks a fair bit bigger.

 

I think the remarkable thing about Andy's layout given the size is that it's all his own work. On top of that he's made a great deal of the stock himself. (Andy, sorry to refer to you in the third person). At that kind of output one might have expected a degree of outsourcing, or the owner acting as "project manager", but it isn't so. One of the reasons I enjoy this and the Coulsdon Works thread.

 

John.

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14 minutes ago, John Tomlinson said:

That surprises me Clive, from the videos you post it looks a fair bit bigger.

 

I think the remarkable thing about Andy's layout given the size is that it's all his own work. On top of that he's made a great deal of the stock himself. (Andy, sorry to refer to you in the third person). At that kind of output one might have expected a degree of outsourcing, or the owner acting as "project manager", but it isn't so. One of the reasons I enjoy this and the Coulsdon Works thread.

 

John.

Thank you John.

 

I agree with what you say about Andy's layout, his output is wonderful.

 

If we keep giving him praise when this covid thing is no longer a major problem do you think he will give us an invite?

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2 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Thank you John.

 

I agree with what you say about Andy's layout, his output is wonderful.

 

If we keep giving him praise when this covid thing is no longer a major problem do you think he will give us an invite?

You’d both be welcome to visit (when Boris allows) if you can face a trek to the wilds of Coulsdon. There’s nothing I enjoy more than operating with friends. You just have to promise to not mention the derailments - my operating standards are sadly not up to LB’s. Remind me when the time is right.

 

And thanks for the kind words about my output (although don’t say it in front of the missus - she already thinks I spend far too much time on it!). I do have a fair bit of help from eBay, but nearly everything bought on there needs some work so it still takes time.

 

I’m now being diverted onto my club’s 0 gauge layout which I seem to be leading. I’m looking forward to it, but it will soak up more time - just as well I’m retired!

 

Andy

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Today's instalment on Gresley Jn is a bit of a work of fiction I’m afraid. It is my oil tank train. I have seen pictures of these Esso tanks in block formations and in mixed trains around the south end of the ECML. I’m not sure where they served or whether they would have got as far North as Gresley Jn/ Hatfield. If anyone can supply any details I’d be very grateful.

 

On the old sequence they did a circuit on the down line, recessing in the goods loop at the station for an hour or so. I have moved them to my cassette system now (to make space for the empty coal wagons) so rather than staying on the down line, it’s a more complicated move. They still come in on the down and cross to the goods loop as below.

37CAAAEF-87D8-42EB-BD80-7C236F94426F.jpeg.a78193b7a59776e323a441c167eb7dbc.jpegB9523244-7668-4DE0-8401-1EEB8AA2488E.jpeg.b1cca46d1b895efc9b65930e47e86cbf.jpeg

 

But I’ve decided that they are from Stratford to a destination on the ‘Stirling’ branch (think Hatfield - St Albans). So the Class 16 shunts them into platform 6, putting the brake van on the rear. But the Class 16’s driver doesn’t know the branch, so it is sent to the diesel stabling point.

4C8BD4FE-D2CD-48B3-BC84-43916017926E.jpeg.935b6a23699adef7832284eb3e9e06ed.jpeg

...and is replaced at Gresley Jn by a J50.

 

91A44024-809C-4AE4-81A4-63BE2C99877D.jpeg.aa70a8cd22025a7dbd13e135c845250a.jpeg

 

This will shortly depart for the Stirling branch.

 

This is all good fun to operate and I hope it bears some credibility!

 

Andy

 

Edited by thegreenhowards
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Gosh I know Coulsdon well! Spent much of my mis-spent teens and early '20s living in purely and Coulsdon was very much on my stomping ground. Ah the Orchid ballroom, pints at the Fox and many other happy memories.

 

One of my first longer term romances involved a very friendly young lady in coulsdon, but not to be discussed here! I now live in the wilds of West Sussex.

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5 minutes ago, bigwordsmith said:

Gosh I know Coulsdon well! Spent much of my mis-spent teens and early '20s living in purely and Coulsdon was very much on my stomping ground. Ah the Orchid ballroom, pints at the Fox and many other happy memories.

 

One of my first longer term romances involved a very friendly young lady in coulsdon, but not to be discussed here! I now live in the wilds of West Sussex.

Me, too. I was at school in Croydon and many schoolmates were from Purley and Coulsdon.

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2 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

Today's instalment on Gresley Jn is a bit of a work of fiction I’m afraid. It is my oil tank train. I have seen pictures of these Esso tanks in block formations and in mixed trains around the south end of the ECML. I’m not sure where they served or whether they would have got as far North as Gresley Jn/ Hatfield. If anyone can supply any details I’d be very grateful.

 

On the old sequence they did a circuit on the down line, recessing in the goods loop at the station for an hour or so. I have moved them to my cassette system now (to make space for the empty coal wagons) so rather than staying on the down line, it’s a more complicated move. They still come in on the down and cross to the goods loop as below.

37CAAAEF-87D8-42EB-BD80-7C236F94426F.jpeg.a78193b7a59776e323a441c167eb7dbc.jpegB9523244-7668-4DE0-8401-1EEB8AA2488E.jpeg.b1cca46d1b895efc9b65930e47e86cbf.jpeg

 

But I’ve decided that they are from Stratford to a destination on the ‘Stirling’ branch (think Hatfield - St Albans). So the Class 16 shunts them into platform 6, putting the brake van on the rear. But the Class 16’s driver doesn’t know the branch, so it is sent to the diesel stabling point.

4C8BD4FE-D2CD-48B3-BC84-43916017926E.jpeg.935b6a23699adef7832284eb3e9e06ed.jpeg

...and is replaced at Gresley Jn by a J50.

 

91A44024-809C-4AE4-81A4-63BE2C99877D.jpeg.aa70a8cd22025a7dbd13e135c845250a.jpeg

 

This will shortly depart for the Stirling branch.

 

This is all good fun to operate and I hope it bears some credibility!

 

Andy

 

Andy Rush told me firmly tank wagons would not be seen at PN, but, there was a fuel complex at Huntingdon, so why wouldn't there be trains from there down to London?  I've seen at least one photo of such a train. The one thing you do need though is a couple of barrier wagons between loco and first tank, if laden. Makes a big bang less likely.

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1 minute ago, great northern said:

Andy Rush told me firmly tank wagons would not be seen at PN, but, there was a fuel complex at Huntingdon, so why wouldn't there be trains from there down to London?  I've seen at least one photo of such a train. The one thing you do need though is a couple of barrier wagons between loco and first tank, if laden. Makes a big bang less likely.

 

Rule 1 applies - if it looks credible it is!

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1 minute ago, great northern said:

Andy Rush told me firmly tank wagons would not be seen at PN, but, there was a fuel complex at Huntingdon, so why wouldn't there be trains from there down to London?  I've seen at least one photo of such a train. The one thing you do need though is a couple of barrier wagons between loco and first tank, if laden. Makes a big bang less likely.

Thanks. Huntingdon might work - not much of an excuse for the Class 16 though!

 

Last time I ran this train, I had two conflats on the front. Clive told me quite firmly that I shouldn’t have conflats and that one van would suffice. He also said that I only needed the barrier van for the silver wagons and not the black ones. So I’ve obeyed Clive - the van was on the front between the Class 16 and the silver tanks and is on the back leaving Gresley Jn protecting the guard’s van - don’t know whether this was necessary. 

 

Now I’ll let you fight it out with Clive!

 

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, thegreenhowards said:

Thanks. Huntingdon might work - not much of an excuse for the Class 16 though!

 

Last time I ran this train, I had two conflats on the front. Clive told me quite firmly that I shouldn’t have conflats and that one van would suffice. He also said that I only needed the barrier van for the silver wagons and not the black ones. So I’ve obeyed Clive - the van was on the front between the Class 16 and the silver tanks and is on the back leaving Gresley Jn protecting the guard’s van - don’t know whether this was necessary. 

 

Now I’ll let you fight it out with Clive!

 

 

 

 

 

Rather a long distance fight at the moment. I relied on a caption to a photograph. Perhaps I should have known better. But wouldn't it be desirable to have something between a steam loco and anything flammable, given their ability to generate sparks and worse?

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7 minutes ago, great northern said:

But if it breaks cardinal railway rules, it can't be credible, surely?

Perhaps whoever put this train together should have a form1?!

240EE92A-8930-4488-B2F5-88F9157CA915.jpeg.ef8da2272893c415d5db7a816bf6058f.jpeg

Please respect copyright. I have put in a deliberately low res version but will remove if requested. The original is on p26 or Steam memories 1950s-1960s ECML:1 - well worth buying.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

Perhaps whoever put this train together should have a form1?!

240EE92A-8930-4488-B2F5-88F9157CA915.jpeg.ef8da2272893c415d5db7a816bf6058f.jpeg

Please respect copyright. I have put in a deliberately low res version but will remove if requested. The original is on p26 or Steam memories 1950s-1960s ECML:1 - well worth buying.

 

 

No arguing with that.....unless they were empty, or the black ones didn't carry something that could go boom.

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10 minutes ago, great northern said:

No arguing with that.....unless they were empty, or the black ones didn't carry something that could go boom.

 

I agree they could have been empty - I didn’t think of that...doh!

 

My understanding is that The silver tanks carried the sort of highly volatile fuels which could go boom. While black tanks  carried less flammable oils like bitumen.

 

Andy

 

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34 minutes ago, great northern said:

Andy Rush told me firmly tank wagons would not be seen at PN, but, there was a fuel complex at Huntingdon, so why wouldn't there be trains from there down to London?  I've seen at least one photo of such a train. The one thing you do need though is a couple of barrier wagons between loco and first tank, if laden. Makes a big bang less likely.

Hi Gilbert

 

Further to what Andy has said. Barrier wagons were required either side of A class tank wagons (silver or grey with a red solbar) due to the low flashpoint of their cargo. They are not required for B class wagons (black) as they contain products with a high flashpoint. B class tanks can act as barrier wagons.

 

Empty A class tanks are more explosive than full ones as the vapors remain after the liquid has been discharged. It is petrol vapor that burns, not petrol itself. When I was in the army my mate use to repair  Landrover fuel tanks by welding them , he always filled right up. The only vapor would be escaping from the site he was welding so was able to control the burning. An empty tank was a bomb waiting to go off.

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1 minute ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Gilbert

 

Further to what Andy has said. Barrier wagons were required either side of A class tank wagons (silver or grey with a red solbar) due to the low flashpoint of their cargo. They are not required for B class wagons (black) as they contain products with a high flashpoint. B class tanks can act as barrier wagons.

 

Empty A class tanks are more explosive than full ones as the vapors remain after the liquid has been discharged. It is petrol vapor that burns, not petrol itself. When I was in the army my mate use to repair  Landrover fuel tanks by welding them , he always filled right up. The only vapor would be escaping from the site he was welding so was able to control the burning. An empty tank was a bomb waiting to go off.

Thanks Clive, so am I correct with my one van as a barrier wagon between the Class 16 and the silver tanks? And was a barrier wagon required between the silver tanks and a brake van?

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4 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Gilbert

 

Further to what Andy has said. Barrier wagons were required either side of A class tank wagons (silver or grey with a red solbar) due to the low flashpoint of their cargo. They are not required for B class wagons (black) as they contain products with a high flashpoint. B class tanks can act as barrier wagons.

 

Empty A class tanks are more explosive than full ones as the vapors remain after the liquid has been discharged. It is petrol vapor that burns, not petrol itself. When I was in the army my mate use to repair  Landrover fuel tanks by welding them , he always filled right up. The only vapor would be escaping from the site he was welding so was able to control the burning. An empty tank was a bomb waiting to go off.

Thank you Clive. Shows how little I actually know about many things.

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56 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

Thanks Clive, so am I correct with my one van as a barrier wagon between the Class 16 and the silver tanks? And was a barrier wagon required between the silver tanks and a brake van?

Hi Andy

 

Your train is correct as far as my understanding of the rules regarding tank wagons were in your modelling period.

 

56 minutes ago, great northern said:

Thank you Clive. Shows how little I actually know about many things.

Hi Gilbert

 

You know a lot more than me, we just know different things.

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While on the subject of barrier wagons, they must not be loaded with flammable materials, like gun powder or hay. 12ton vans and 13 ton opens are commonly seen as barrier wagons in photos of trains with tank wagons in them. MGR hoppers were used in the late 60s when oil trains had air brakes.

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