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2 hours ago, bigwordsmith said:

Gosh I know Coulsdon well! Spent much of my mis-spent teens and early '20s living in purely and Coulsdon was very much on my stomping ground. Ah the Orchid ballroom, pints at the Fox and many other happy memories.

 

One of my first longer term romances involved a very friendly young lady in coulsdon, but not to be discussed here! I now live in the wilds of West Sussex.

 

2 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

Me, too. I was at school in Croydon and many schoolmates were from Purley and Coulsdon.

Well you’ve both run a long way away!

 

I was brought up in South London but only moved here when we had our first child in 2004. We’ve found it excellent. 25 mins to London on an (Usually) excellent train service and just on the edge of the N. Downs for walks and cycle rides. A great compromise.

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1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said:

While on the subject of barrier wagons, they must not be loaded with flammable materials, like gun powder or hay. 

Did they really have to write that in the instructions? I would have hoped that could have been left to common sense!

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G'day Folks

 

On the subject of oil trains on the ECML, (Kings Cross area), don't forget the oil depot at Royston, this was supplied form the Western Region, giving you the excuse to have a WR loco passing through.

 

manna

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9 minutes ago, manna said:

On the subject of oil trains on the ECML, (Kings Cross area), don't forget the oil depot at Royston

 

I remember the derailment in the early 80's as they shunted a train into the depot.  I was on the Up platform and saw a tank slowing leaning over,  but what worried me more was the 20+ stone shunter running towards me....:o ....so much on the move, and a lot of it uncoordinated.

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1 hour ago, thegreenhowards said:

Did they really have to write that in the instructions? I would have hoped that could have been left to common sense!

Ah common sense.

 

Common sense is something you can never sell, those with it don't need it , those without it think they don't need it.

Edited by Clive Mortimore
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49 minutes ago, manna said:

G'day Folks

 

On the subject of oil trains on the ECML, (Kings Cross area), don't forget the oil depot at Royston, this was supplied form the Western Region, giving you the excuse to have a WR loco passing through.

 

manna

I’ve never seen any pictures of that. What sort of loco would have hauled it? I’m not really a fan of copper chimneys but an excuse for a Hymek or Warship would be good.

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6 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Gilbert

 

Further to what Andy has said. Barrier wagons were required either side of A class tank wagons (silver or grey with a red solbar) due to the low flashpoint of their cargo. They are not required for B class wagons (black) as they contain products with a high flashpoint. B class tanks can act as barrier wagons.

 

Empty A class tanks are more explosive than full ones as the vapors remain after the liquid has been discharged. It is petrol vapor that burns, not petrol itself. When I was in the army my mate use to repair  Landrover fuel tanks by welding them , he always filled right up. The only vapor would be escaping from the site he was welding so was able to control the burning. An empty tank was a bomb waiting to go off.


As the barrier wagons issue is something I am a bit vague on in some aspects the above helps as I had forgotten the black is safer distinction. A couple of follow ups-

  • barrier wagons obviously for steam and also for diesels in the steam era.
  • also when shunting presumably? (one I might forget)
  • when did it change? For example the Furzebrooke trains were silver (gas loaded IIRC) but no barriers with diesels
  • and the unanswered question from above - and for the guards van end too? (I assume yes, as passing loco sparks, the guards might smoke etc. = explosion risk)

 

Edited by john new
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20 minutes ago, john new said:


As the barrier wagons issue is something I am a bit vague on in some aspects the above helps as I had forgotten the black is safer distinction. A couple of follow ups-

  • barrier wagons obviously for steam and also for diesels in the steam era.
  • and when shunting presumably? (one I might forget)
  • and the unanswered question from above - and for the guards van end too? (I assume yes, passing loco sparks, the guards might smoke etc.

 

Hi John

 

Barrier wagons were required if a A class tank was in the middle of a train. I don't think it was a case of if a loco spark went a stray or a guard had a fag on but if the wagon caught fire there was something between it to protect the rest of the train.

 

Barrier wagons stopped being used in the seventies as far as I recall.

 

Shunting did not seem to needed a barrier wagon as far as photos show.

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7 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

 

Well you’ve both run a long way away!

 

I was brought up in South London but only moved here when we had our first child in 2004. We’ve found it excellent. 25 mins to London on an (Usually) excellent train service and just on the edge of the N. Downs for walks and cycle rides. A great compromise.

It isn't a bad spot. My paternal grandparents lived at Hooley and are buried in Chipstead churchyard. I always try to call in to clean up the grave when I'm across but that hasn't happened for more than two years now.

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G'day Folks

 

I have a picture of said oil train passing Wood Green sand yard, in the snow, (Jan 1971) it's a WR 16xx class 47, but I suppose a Hymek or Warship could have done the honours in a emergency. I'll have another look for the photo. Found the picture

 

manna

47 on a petrol train-passing Wood Green sand yard 1971.jpg

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7 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi John

 

Barrier wagons were required if a A class tank was in the middle of a train. I don't think it was a case of if a loco spark went a stray or a guard had a fag on but if the wagon caught fire there was something between it to protect the rest of the train.

 

Barrier wagons stopped being used in the seventies as far as I recall.

 

Shunting did not seem to needed a barrier wagon as far as photos show.

 

I was thinking of extra reasons over and above hot axle-boxes for why that fire might start, the obvious bigger reason is yes for a crew and staff protection/safety zone if it does start. 

 

The shunting and 1970s answers also very helpful.

 

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6 hours ago, manna said:

G'day Folks

 

I have a picture of said oil train passing Wood Green sand yard, in the snow, (Jan 1971) it's a WR 16xx class 47, but I suppose a Hymek or Warship could have done the honours in a emergency. I'll have another look for the photo. Found the picture

 

manna

47 on a petrol train-passing Wood Green sand yard 1971.jpg

Many thanks for that picture. That’s sometime after my period. Indeed (with a couple of exceptions) I end my period on 27/9/62, the day before the first 47 arrived at FP as I have never liked 47s.  They created a blanket uniformity over passenger operations in my youth and didn’t have the character of all my favourite diesel types. So it definitely wouldn’t be a 47 on Gresley Jn!

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23 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

Many thanks for that picture. That’s sometime after my period. Indeed (with a couple of exceptions) I end my period on 27/9/62, the day before the first 47 arrived at FP as I have never liked 47s.  They created a blanket uniformity over passenger operations in my youth and didn’t have the character of all my favourite diesel types. So it definitely wouldn’t be a 47 on Gresley Jn!

No Type four and a half?

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13 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

What’s one of those - do you mean the first 20 ‘generator’ duffs?

No what modern image people call a class 47. Type four and a half was the name given by drivers at some sheds, not a typical trainspotters name. It is a bit like the humble 08 is called all sorts of names by trainspotters but older drivers on the LMR called them Jockos, the ER 350s and the WR Pilots.

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6 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Type four and a half was the name given by drivers at some sheds

To distinguish them from Type 4s, i.e. BR/Sulzer or English Electric.

 

7 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

WR Pilots.

Also ScR.

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Changing the subject from barrier wagons and certainly from 47s, here is today’s offering from Gresley Jn, the 1400 KX-Newcastle.

 

5D5FE73F-AD13-400E-A7EF-88078725C175.jpeg.43916b694b340d187d78101237007f74.jpeg

0B306B24-C553-46D1-A34C-F94EE67EFAFE.jpeg.12f1a078fb2f21fa90c9ddbdd2d9b26e.jpeg

I didn’t use to run this train as it’s quite difficult to form up trains from loose stock on my outer (down) circuit - bad design of fiddle yard! I have a Newcastle train which sits in one of the reversible roads in the centre of my fiddle yard, but each Newcastle service is different. However, I’ve realised that the ex Silver Jubilee triplet which is part of my 0955 Newcastle/ 1735 return set from 1955 had moved to the 0800 Newcastle/ 1400 return by 1958, so by using my flexible time period I can run both trains with just a subtle change of a couple of coaches each end and get more use out of my expensive triplet.

 

The loco is 60046, Diamond Jubilee which those of you who follow my Coulsdon Works thread will have seen I have just completed. It is one of only five A3s which had A4 type non corridor streamlined tenders and was formed by mixing and matching a Hornby Miles Beevor and Minoru.

 

Just to show the complete formation, here is an aerial shot. This is as per the CWN except for a couple of Thompson brakes vice Mk1 which I think was quite typical.

418A13FC-007D-4B17-A8E1-D739B900244F.jpeg.a7db1bcf63d914d5f4608edaae30e58c.jpeg

 

I hope you like the triplet as you will be seeing it again shortly!

 

Andy

 

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I’ve taken up a new career as a brickie for the last few evenings and I’ve been quite productive because I’ve built a whole retaining wall for Gresley Jn!

 

9B8D9B12-C32D-4D50-B658-6BB478540B78.jpeg.d03114dd35cded2266894763377fd9be.jpegE3A8C27E-24B6-4A94-AD7D-BD51AA0D297B.jpeg.08581cfbc40020d2b63847d61048e155.jpeg

 

It’s not finished yet as I need to extend it along to the station platforms. I envisage it running behind the station platform and merging into a building somewhere along the platform. I’m not quite sure how a red brick wall merging into a yellow brick station platform building will look but I’ll cross that bridge when I come to it.

 

It’s only rested in place at the moment. I need to spray it with varnish when the weather allows and then weather it before fixing it down. 

 

Does anyone have any comments on the position of the signal box - i.e. is it too cramped there sandwiched between wall and track?

 

Andy

 

 

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The oil tanks have left for 'Stirling' and the 1435 all stations to KX has just departed with Class 26 and quad arts. It's now time for the arrival of the next all stations from KX which I can show coming in past the new retaining wall.

DSC_1703.JPG.63b2f21ead7ec0aa9004d3ac0e6b991e.JPGDSC_1704.JPG.d0320fedd93827d74489f05f7cab0c29.JPG

 

This one is sounded fitted and as coasting into the station doesn't really do the sound justice, I've videoed it running round the train in Platform 4. It's a couple of minutes but plenty of sound effects to keep you entertained!

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, thegreenhowards said:

 

 

Does anyone have any comments on the position of the signal box - i.e. is it too cramped there sandwiched between wall and track?

 

Andy

 

 

 

Looks OK to me Andy, some signal boxes were like that - Holloway South Down for example (sort of).

 

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30 minutes ago, 31A said:

 

Looks OK to me Andy, some signal boxes were like that - Holloway South Down for example (sort of).

 

Yes, I agree. There seems to be a pathway clear of the running lines for the signalman, or anyone else to use safely. Land was expensive, and so most companies acquired no more that that which was absolutely necessary.

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On 18/11/2020 at 16:52, thegreenhowards said:

Changing the subject from barrier wagons and certainly from 47s, here is today’s offering from Gresley Jn, the 1400 KX-Newcastle.

 

5D5FE73F-AD13-400E-A7EF-88078725C175.jpeg.43916b694b340d187d78101237007f74.jpeg

0B306B24-C553-46D1-A34C-F94EE67EFAFE.jpeg.12f1a078fb2f21fa90c9ddbdd2d9b26e.jpeg

I didn’t use to run this train as it’s quite difficult to form up trains from loose stock on my outer (down) circuit - bad design of fiddle yard! I have a Newcastle train which sits in one of the reversible roads in the centre of my fiddle yard, but each Newcastle service is different. However, I’ve realised that the ex Silver Jubilee triplet which is part of my 0955 Newcastle/ 1735 return set from 1955 had moved to the 0800 Newcastle/ 1400 return by 1958, so by using my flexible time period I can run both trains with just a subtle change of a couple of coaches each end and get more use out of my expensive triplet.

 

The loco is 60046, Diamond Jubilee which those of you who follow my Coulsdon Works thread will have seen I have just completed. It is one of only five A3s which had A4 type non corridor streamlined tenders and was formed by mixing and matching a Hornby Miles Beevor and Minoru.

 

Just to show the complete formation, here is an aerial shot. This is as per the CWN except for a couple of Thompson brakes vice Mk1 which I think was quite typical.

418A13FC-007D-4B17-A8E1-D739B900244F.jpeg.a7db1bcf63d914d5f4608edaae30e58c.jpeg

 

I hope you like the triplet as you will be seeing it again shortly!

 

Andy

 

It looks a very good idea, Andy,

 

However, with regard to the A3s and their towing streamlined non-corridor tenders, I think you'll find that there were seven so equipped (not all at the same time). 

 

Off the top of my head, these were 60046, 60058, 60062, 60068, 60084, 60095 and (of course) 60103. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

It looks a very good idea, Andy,

 

However, with regard to the A3s and their towing streamlined non-corridor tenders, I think you'll find that there were seven so equipped (not all at the same time). 

 

Off the top of my head, these were 60046, 60058, 60062, 60068, 60084, 60095 and (of course) 60103. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Evening Tony,


Thanks for your comments. 

 

What I meant with regard to the tenders was five A3s at any one time. In the late fifties these were 46,58,84,95 and 103. However, to be pedantic there were 15 (Source: green RCTS book) which carried them at one time or another going back to LNER days. Originally 10 were built for the A1/A3s to replace 10 1928 corridor Tenders taken for the A4s. Five of these where later lost to further A4 builds and replaced by tenders off the withdrawn Raven A2s. I presume your 7 engines refers to BR days? 68 gave hers to 95 in March 54 and 62 gave hers to 58 in Feb 55.
 

I didn’t have much choice when it came to numbers for mine as 68 and 95 were Carlisle engines and I won’t have 103 as being too common. So it was down to Neville Hill (84) or Donny and I chose Donny as I get the impression that NH engines didn’t work south very often.

 

Andy

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13 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

Evening Tony,


Thanks for your comments. 

 

What I meant with regard to the tenders was five A3s at any one time. In the late fifties these were 46,58,84,95 and 103. However, to be pedantic there were 15 (Source: green RCTS book) which carried them at one time or another going back to LNER days. Originally 10 were built for the A1/A3s to replace 10 1928 corridor Tenders taken for the A4s. Five of these where later lost to further A4 builds and replaced by tenders off the withdrawn Raven A2s. I presume your 7 engines refers to BR days? 68 gave hers to 95 in March 54 and 62 gave hers to 58 in Feb 55.
 

I didn’t have much choice when it came to numbers for mine as 68 and 95 were Carlisle engines and I won’t have 103 as being too common. So it was down to Neville Hill (84) or Donny and I chose Donny as I get the impression that NH engines didn’t work south very often.

 

Andy

Yes, Andy, 

 

In BR days (I should have been more specific). 

 

I'm puzzled why folk consider FLYING SCOTSMAN 'too common'. She was the first A3 I saw (in the mid-'50s), but I never saw her again until she was preserved. Yet, on just about every other occasion when I 'spotted on the ECML, DIAMOND JUBILEE was seen. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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