Gresley Junction

[thegreenhowards]

3 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Yes, Andy, 

 

In BR days (I should have been more specific). 

 

I'm puzzled why folk consider FLYING SCOTSMAN 'too common'. She was the first A3 I saw (in the mid-'50s), but I never saw her again until she was preserved. Yet, on just about every other occasion when I 'spotted on the ECML, DIAMOND JUBILEE was seen. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Tony,

 

When I say too common I mean every ER model railway layout has one. I’ve no idea whether she was common in service as I wasn’t born!
 

I just like Gresley Jn to be different, so I choose locos from pictures which inspire but try to choose ones that Hornby/ Bachmann haven’t produced recently. I believe that Hornby produced Diamond Jubilee as a special edition but I haven’t seen many example around.

 

ATB

 

Andy

 

[thegreenhowards]

Today I feature the 1410 KX-York/ Hull. This is the return of the stock which formed the 0915 YRK/ 0845 Hull- KX. This was the W1 hauled train which opened the sequence. It had a 1h15 turnround at KX - very quick by 1958 standards. The W1 was given a bit longer and returned on the 1605 - you might see this in a few weeks!

 

I think this train was allocated a York A2. However, I don’t have one so you’ll have to make do with a York A1, 60146, Peregrine - one of my favourite names. I will have an excuse to buy a York allocated Hornby A2/2 or A2/3 when they come out!

 

I don’t think I’ve shown this view before - I was ashamed of the lack of a backdrop but now the wall is in situ it looks better. I rather like the view down the canal.

 

And here is one of my more conventional views.

 

[manna]

On 20/11/2020 at 07:06, Tony Wright said:

Yes, Andy, 

 

In BR days (I should have been more specific). 

 

I'm puzzled why folk consider FLYING SCOTSMAN 'too common'. She was the first A3 I saw (in the mid-'50s), but I never saw her again until she was preserved. Yet, on just about every other occasion when I 'spotted on the ECML, DIAMOND JUBILEE was seen. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

G'Day Folks

 

Tony I don't think it's the 'Real' loco, that's common, it's the model, we've had a model of the 'Flying Scotsman for 52 years, how many have been made, many many Thousand's, so everyone has one.

I can remember 60103 pounding through Wood Green many times, along with Mallard, but Lord Farringdon was the most common.

 

manna

Edited November 20, 2020 by manna

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, manna said:

G'Day Folks

 

Tony I don't think it's the 'Real' loco, that's common, it's the model, we've had a model of the 'Flying Scotsman for 52 years, how many have been made, many many Thousand's, so everyone has one.

I can remember 60103 pounding through Wood Green many times, along with Mallard, but Lord Farringdon was the most common.

 

manna

'we've had a model of the 'Flying Scotsman for 52 years, how many have been made, many many Thousand's, so everyone has one.'

 

Thousands indeed!

 

Here's mine................

 

 

I built it over 35 years ago, using a Wills kit on top of a scratch-built chassis, towing a K's P2 tender. The painting is mine. 

 

She's representative of her last full year in traffic (1962), so is really anomalous for Little Bytham (the station having been closed and demolished three years earlier).

 

Still, rule 1 applies!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

 

[thegreenhowards]

10 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

'we've had a model of the 'Flying Scotsman for 52 years, how many have been made, many many Thousand's, so everyone has one.'

 

Thousands indeed!

 

Here's mine................

 

 

I built it over 35 years ago, using a Wills kit on top of a scratch-built chassis, towing a K's P2 tender. The painting is mine. 

 

She's representative of her last full year in traffic (1962), so is really anomalous for Little Bytham (the station having been closed and demolished three years earlier).

 

Still, rule 1 applies!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

 

Tony,

 

...And very fine she looks too. When you built her she would have been light years ahead of the RTR offerings and, as you have said, LB and 60103 share a special place in history so I don’t blame you for having one!

 

I’m weakening on my ‘no cliches’ rule as Headstock has persuaded me that this Jamieson V2, 60966, shown on my workbench thread, has the wrong tender and valve gear guide.

 

So next time Modelmaster have a nameplate sale, she will become ‘Green Arrow’ as one of the few with this combo In the early ‘50s based at the south end of the line.

 

Not quite so common, but I’m also sorely tempted by an O gauge Papyrus now Hattons have reduced the price - an extravagance but a very beautiful one!

 

Andy

 

 

 

 

[thegreenhowards]

This evening we have another down coal empties. The wagons are largely the same as you saw last time but I try to vary the formation marginally each time. So I have added two empty brick wagons on the front. While it seems clear that these were sometimes put on the front of the full southbound trains, I’m still not 100% sure whether these travelled back to Peterborough on the front of the empties or on separate dedicated services. I’m assuming the former. Power this evening is the more typical WD 2-8-0 -In this case a DJH example.

 

I’ve been doing some more bricklaying, so the retaining wall has extended further towards the station. I think this is as far as it will go and it can join onto station buildings at about this point. This is the view from the station footbridge. I need to find a way of blacking out the fiddle yard beyond the tunnels - any suggestions?

 

I was struggling to find anywhere on the layout to show the full train. It doesn’t even fit on the viaduct section but this shows most of it. Perhaps this is telling me I’m trying to run too long a train but it’s still not much more than half the length of the real things!

 

I could get slightly more in by photographing from the rear for the less loco centric amongst you. Just two more wagons to emerge from the tunnel.

[great northern]

52 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

This evening we have another down coal empties. The wagons are largely the same as you saw last time but I try to vary the formation marginally each time. So I have added two empty brick wagons on the front. While it seems clear that these were sometimes put on the front of the full southbound trains, I’m still not 100% sure whether these travelled back to Peterborough on the front of the empties or on separate dedicated services. I’m assuming the former. Power this evening is the more typical WD 2-8-0 -In this case a DJH example.

 

I’ve been doing some more bricklaying, so the retaining wall has extended further towards the station. I think this is as far as it will go and it can join onto station buildings at about this point. This is the view from the station footbridge. I need to find a way of blacking out the fiddle yard beyond the tunnels - any suggestions?

 

I was struggling to find anywhere on the layout to show the full train. It doesn’t even fit on the viaduct section but this shows most of it. Perhaps this is telling me I’m trying to run too long a train but it’s still not much more than half the length of the real things!

 

I could get slightly more in by photographing from the rear for the less loco centric amongst you. Just two more wagons to emerge from the tunnel.

Did you say that was 41 wagons Andy? Mine is 42 plus brake, and it doesn't look anywhere near as long as yours does in that photograph.

[thegreenhowards]

10 minutes ago, great northern said:

Did you say that was 41 wagons Andy? Mine is 42 plus brake, and it doesn't look anywhere near as long as yours does in that photograph.

David counted it as 41+brake on the last run and I didn’t argue although I think he may have over counted by one or two. Since then I’ve added the two brick wagons. There are a handful of longer 21T wagons in the rake but even so it does look long. 
 

You must struggle to get all of your train in one photo?

 

Andy

 

 

[great northern]

2 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

David counted it as 41+brake on the last run and I didn’t argue although I think he may have over counted by one or two. Since then I’ve added the two brick wagons. There are a handful of longer 21T wagons in the rake but even so it does look long. 
 

You must struggle to get all of your train in one photo?

 

Andy

 

 

Can't be done Andy. The overall roof  makes it impossible.

[thegreenhowards]

Today's train uses a fair bit of 'Rule 1'. It is the 1449 arrival from Stirling. The Stirling branch is loosely based on the St Albans branch from Hatfield but this shut in the early '50s and I don't have a timetable for it. If it had survived to the late '50s, I imagine it would have had a branch train something like this - A N7 and a D.210 twin. This combo certainly worked the Dunstable branch in 1958.

 

So here she is emerging from the canal tunnels. I remembered to throw a dustsheet over the fiddle yard today to block out the light but I must remember to remove it before I try to shoot any videos!

 

...and here she is entering Platform 6.

 

...and finally at rest with the steam shed in the background. I must replace those Wrenn water columns!

Edited November 22, 2020 by thegreenhowards
Typo

[thegreenhowards]

This evening I feature the late running 0955 Newcastle-KX. This is either late running because the booked loco failed and was replaced by a V2 or because I forgot all about it as I went down my schedule list - I'll let you guess on that one!

 

Anyway, here is the said rescue V2 at the head of this impressive 13 coach train.

 

I tried zooming in to get a telephoto view but I'm not sure it worked. 

 

The train itself is made up from loose stock. I've modelled the Summer '58 formation which was 13 vehicles including 3 BSOs which exhausted my supply of loose BSOs. It's all Mark 1 apart from a Gresley RTS and two coaches from Scarborough which were attached at York. I managed to form it up correctly but please don't look at the carriage boards too closely!

 

The V2 - my namesake, The Green Howard, is a Nucast example which I bought via Tony Wright. It weighs a ton, runs very smoothly and will pull anything asked of it, although at a fairly sedate pace.

 

I've done a video of this train so that you can see the full formation. It also features the N7 running round the Stirling branch train.

 

 

 

[thegreenhowards]

Hot on the heals of the late running 0955 Newcastle-KX is the morning Talisman. It must be 1957 as this was the only year when the same stock did the morning and afternoon trains.

 

Here we have 60020, Guillemot rounding the curve on the outer approaches to Gresley Jn.

 

 

This is quite an interesting rake which is 75% kit built. It has Mark 1 BSOs either end  which are Southern Pride as Hornby hadn't produced theirs when I built this rake. The more interesting vehicles are in the centre of the train.

 

Firstly a twin FO ex The Coronation built from a Mailcoach kit. This was my first attempt at building one of these kits and I struggled with the painting round the windows but they haven't come out too badly considering and they certainly make a change from Mark 1s.

 

Following the twin FO is a Thompson pair of RF (Comet) and RSO (Southern Pride), both on Bachmann donors. The white windows on the RF are rather 'in your face' - I must tone them down.

 

I hope you like this rake because it will feature twice more during the sequence! Forming both the up and down afternoon Talismans (should that be Talismen?!). The down morning Talisman was well gone before my sequence starts. The rake lives in one of the reversible roads in my fiddle yard. 

[bigwordsmith]

18 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

This evening I feature the late running 0955 Newcastle-KX. This is either late running because the booked loco failed and was replaced by a V2 or because I forgot all about it as I went down my schedule list - I'll let you guess on that one!

 

Anyway, here is the said rescue V2 at the head of this impressive 13 coach train.

 

I tried zooming in to get a telephoto view but I'm not sure it worked. 

 

The train itself is made up from loose stock. I've modelled the Summer '58 formation which was 13 vehicles including 3 BSOs which exhausted my supply of loose BSOs. It's all Mark 1 apart from a Gresley RTS and two coaches from Scarborough which were attached at York. I managed to form it up correctly but please don't look at the carriage boards too closely!

 

The V2 - my namesake, The Green Howard, is a Nucast example which I bought via Tony Wright. It weighs a ton, runs very smoothly and will pull anything asked of it, although at a fairly sedate pace.

 

I've done a video of this train so that you can see the full formation. It also features the N7 running round the Stirling branch train.

 

 

 

I thought it was bad luck to run 13 bogies - or does the triplet only count as 2 and 1/2?

 

Edited November 24, 2020 by bigwordsmith
Damned autocorrect!

[thegreenhowards]

Just now, bigwordsmith said:

I thought it was bad luck to run 13 bogies - or does the triplet only count as 2 and 1/2?

 

I won't tell anyone if you don't!

[thegreenhowards]

This evening I feature a Cambridge semi-fast. I tried a picture under the roof which has come out reasonably well although with rather high contrast.

 

 

I've gone back to using my DSLR for these photos with a long exposure and a photo LED floodlight. The depth of field is much better than the iPhone as I stop it down to F25 but I think the iPhone captures the colours better and is less grainy. If anyone can suggest some tweaks to my DSLR to help I'm all ears!

 

Here is another taken as the baby Deltic comes to a halt.

 

Finally a picture as she rounds the curve past the gasworks.

These were fairly standard rakes by the late '50s formed:

• Gresley BTK(3)
• Mk 1 TSO
• Thompson FK
• Mk 1 TSO
• Mk 1TSO
• Gresley BTK(3) 

There are lots of pictures around with this formation headed by Baby Deltics and other pilot scheme diesels and also with steam in c.1958. Why they had the Gresley 3 cpt brakes I have no idea as I would have thought they would be more suited to long distance trains where passengers had lots of luggage. I guess they must have been surplus. My rake is formed with Kirk brakes, a new Bachmann Thompson FK and Hornby/ Bachmann Mk 1s. Later on (c.1960?) the brakes changed to the 5 cpt version.

[thegreenhowards]

Today I feature the 1312 Peterborough - King's Cross in its 1956 formation. Here it is seen in platform 3 at Gresley Jn.

 

It's the first run for my new V2, 60966. Those who follow Coulsdon Works will know that this loco is not strictly correct as it has the wrong tender and wrong valve guides - I'd better hope 'Headstock' is not reading this! It will become 60800 next time Modelmaster have a nameplate sale (hopefully on Black Friday so not long) so it may be it's last run in this guise as well. Any spotters out there had better get the number down! 

 

 

The rolling stock is quite interesting. This was not the usual steel panelled five set but a mix of mainly Gresley stock BZ/BSK/SK/SK/CK/BG with rather bizarrely a buffet car bringing up the rear. The buffet car worked down as far as Peterborough on the rear of 0820 from Kings Cross to York/ Hull and came back empty on this service. I don't have a Crimson Cream buffet car and it's too early for Maroon so I'm using this as a chance to give a debut to my new Isinglass D.78V buffet which is in teak - an unlikely survivor this late but you never know.

 

 

Finally we have a view of the full train leaving Gresley Jn taken from the canal towpath. I find these higher viewpoints easier with the iPhone as it can get a good depth of field.

 

[thegreenhowards]

I’m looking for some help with the next train in the sequence as I haven’t tried to run it before. This is shown in my 1953 WTT as the 1435 down Meat empties from KX to Haymarket. Here is my attempt at it.

 

I had a look through all my vans and only found one meat van so I clearly need some additions! For now, I added my one meat van and three Conflats with insulated containers to the front of my scotch goods rake and removed the open wagons. However this leave a lot of non meat vans.
 

Reading up on this, a lot of the traffic would have been in insulated containers. but I think there would have been vans as well. Probably a mixture of LNER and BR meat/ insulated vans and possibly a few general purpose vans for the less critical traffic. It would be relatively easy (if expensive) to line up 20+ conflats with white containers. But it would be nice to have some variety. Can anyone point me in the right direction for any pictures of this train? - I’ve drawn a blank so far. Gilbert, I don’t recall seeing it on PN - do you run something similar?

 

Finally here is a video of the train as it stands.

 

 

[great northern]

My 1957 WTT doesn't show meat empties running at or around that time, in fact it doesn't show any at all. There is an Up Class C meat shown as leaving Aberdeen at 1017am, but having got no further than Huntingdon by 1057pm. That would put it down you way in the middle of the night, which I'm sure is what I have read elsewhere too.

 

Could it be that by then there wasn't a dedicated train of empties, or that they ran as part of another Class C?

[thegreenhowards]

18 minutes ago, great northern said:

My 1957 WTT doesn't show meat empties running at or around that time, in fact it doesn't show any at all. There is an Up Class C meat shown as leaving Aberdeen at 1017am, but having got no further than Huntingdon by 1057pm. That would put it down you way in the middle of the night, which I'm sure is what I have read elsewhere too.

 

Could it be that by then there wasn't a dedicated train of empties, or that they ran as part of another Class C?

Thanks Gilbert,

 

I guessed that might be the case. I suppose any empties must have gone back on a mixed train by 1957. I think I will persist with a Class C at this time but it would give me an excuse to run a less dedicated train and re-use more of my scotch goods rake. This is just as well as I don't have room in the fiddle yard for much more! I think if I swap a few containers over to white boxes on the existing conflats that should be practical and sufficient to make a credible train.

 

I do fancy a couple of LNER insulated meat vans to add some variety to the rake but I'm not sure how I'll make them as there doesn't seem to be a kit readily available.

 

Andy

 

[thegreenhowards]

Here we see the 1452 KX-Newcastle.

 

 

This train was a ‘Q’ path relief Mon-Thu but ran every Friday. It seemed to run at a similar time through most of the 1950s and keep the same formation: BSK, 7*SK(7), FK, BSK; all Gresley stock. I’m working on the basis that, apart perhaps from the named trains,  most stock was still in teak around 1950. 60117 was painted blue in July 1950 so this must be earlier than that. I managed to form the train as per CWN from loose stock apart from the FK which I’ve replaced with a CK. All the TK’s and CK are EV stock as diagrammed. They’re all Kirk kits mainly bought off eBay and it’s best not to look too closely as some of them need a bit of restoration! 

 

They mainly run on Bachmann bogies and are pretty trouble free. Here’s a short video.

 

 

 

 

[thegreenhowards]

Next up is the second New England to Ferme Park pick up goods. The first ran non stop to Hitchin and then served all stations to Ferme Park (including Gresley Jn in my world). This one served all stations to Hitchin and then ran non stop to Ferme Park overtaking the first in outer London. Gilbert tells me these were always WDs and I’ve just fitted a You Choos sound chip to mine, so this was a good chance to give her a ‘sound debut’. 
 

Here she is exiting the tunnel from the viaduct section.

 

...and passing the gasworks.

 

The video shows the full train coming through the station goods loop.

 

 

[John Tomlinson]

Andy, I particularly enjoyed the WD video, and what a great sound. Is the loco a Bachmann one,  I think its one of the best models they've ever made with its sprung axles and excellent slow speed running?

 

60117 in apple green I thought looked very fine as well on those teak/ brown Gresleys. Always fascinating to see that era modelled, probably one of the reasons I'm bowled over every time I see LSGC, lets hope sometime next year - even if at the end - we can get back to Exhibitions!

 

John.

[2750Papyrus]

Not normally a great fan of sound but this did add an extra dimension to the WD.

 

Nice signal box!

[thegreenhowards]

5 hours ago, John Tomlinson said:

Andy, I particularly enjoyed the WD video, and what a great sound. Is the loco a Bachmann one,  I think its one of the best models they've ever made with its sprung axles and excellent slow speed running?

 

60117 in apple green I thought looked very fine as well on those teak/ brown Gresleys. Always fascinating to see that era modelled, probably one of the reasons I'm bowled over every time I see LSGC, lets hope sometime next year - even if at the end - we can get back to Exhibitions!

 

John.

 

3 hours ago, 2750Papyrus said:

Not normally a great fan of sound but this did add an extra dimension to the WD.

 

Nice signal box!

Thanks to you both for your comments. I find sound really brings operating the layout to life and is especially effective on slower trains. The You Choos ‘immersive drive’ system is particularly good as it has a separate brake with appropriate sounds. When the throttle is shut off the loco coasts and slows down very slowly. It’s not until the brake is applied that the loco slows significantly with appropriate sound effects. It makes for very engaging operation. I know sound is not everyone’s cup of tea and I half imagine several people watching my videos on mute to avoid it, so it’s good to know that some people appreciate it.

 

The WD is a newer Bachmann one. It was pre wired for a 21 pin chip in the tender so easy to convert to DCC and the speaker fits neatly in the tender. I know that sounds counter intuitive but you have to be very close to tell where the sound is coming from.

 

I agree about the early nationalisation era - shall we call it era 3.5?! It has a lovely mix of colours and variety of rolling stock. Those particular coaches really need a make over but they’re OK from a distance. I also agree about LSGC which must be one of the best layouts on the circuit at the moment. I was having a dilemma about which year to model and how to fit in everything I wanted from Ivatt Atlantic’s to production Deltics. When I saw LSGC it was a light bulb moment. I try to do what they do. Every train is correct for a year, but trains can vary from 1948-1962.  
 

The signal box is from LCUT creative. It’s not finished as I haven’t glazed it or added the railings round the balcony. Another thing on the to do list!

 

Andy

[thegreenhowards]

This evening I feature the 1038 Ripon-KX. I’ve chosen the 1960 formation as I wanted to try an all maroon rake and also give Pretty Polly a run in her wind deflector guise (Nov 59-Jan 62). It was a rather masochistic train to choose as it included four * TSO and 3 * BCK which taxed my loose stock. I just about managed but had to use a BSK vice BCK. Here is Pretty Polly emerging from the tunnel.

 

 

...and from the other side.

 

 

The other attraction of this formation is its use of a full Thompson dining triplet RSO/RK/RFO. I’m rather fond of these coaches.

 

Here is the video.

 

 

Edited November 30, 2020 by thegreenhowards
Reinstating some of the post