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Accurascale and the 'Bachmann' word


Nick-L
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There has always been duplication of models in the market place. Would fully expect Bachmann to announce revised versions of both 37 and 47, possibly initially aimed at different time periods to models announced to secure their place in the market. Their MD has always been keener on modern image rather than steam as it gives more liveries to produce out of one set of tooling, as he explained once. 

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 Reference has been made to the big four but I think up to recently it was the big two. Hornby have their financial problems  but they have the advantage of a household name  which applies to toys as well as models and therefore a bigger market . Bachmann on the other hand are mainly known to rail enthusiasts and vulnerable to having models picked off. Although they will expand into toys with their Thomas range I really wonder how significant it will be given  the prices being charged.  So I see Bachmann as being the manufacturer most vulnerable . We’ve seen the direct conflict with Hattons on the 66 now we have Accurascale with the 37 and 55 . New companies that are more agile in bringing stuff to market quicker and critically at the same or lower cost ( because of their business model), but the key thing to us is better spec less money. Then if you add in Heljan with new 47s, 25s and critically I think 45s , where is Bachman’s Response?

 

I think what you will see is Bachmann continuing with high spec high cost models with lower quantities . They might make more money, market share at low margins is really not an objective in itself  , margin for shareholders(Kader) is and that may be through a few high margin items eg digital coaches,, crânes @ £250. Also don’t forget that Bachmann branchline and Farish is only part of the full range they have . Maybe Kader can make more money on other items . They will bring to market things they can make money on , that’s completely understandable . Maybe Accurascale etc can make acceptable margins that Kader will walk away from.

 

i doubt this is a fantastically profitable market ,but there is still money to be made and opportunities . Why else would Cavalex, Accurascale etc enter the market. Yes they are clearly enthusiasts but they are not prepared to lose their shirts for their enthusiasm. 

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On 25/11/2019 at 16:56, The Johnster said:

At the risk of upsetting an administrator, which I don't particularly want to do as I have a very high regard for the work they do in 'managing' the site,  Hornby announced 4 brand new coaches, the Collett Suburbans, just about a year ago, and my crimson liveries were in the shops in March, exactly as Hornby predicted.  We know that the Prairie was deferred as a result of aggressive competitive marketing of the Terrier, and Hornby were about as upfront and open about this as anyone can reasonably expect; they are entitled to their confidentiality!

 

Bachmann seem incapable of doing this.  I bang on relentlessly about the 94xx, but it is symptomatic of what I consider a serious issue of trust with this company.  I no longer believe without question any of their projected availability dates, though the presence of decorated samples of 94xx at Warley has reassured me that the thing will appear eventually.  My first awareness of it's 'impending release' was when I returned to the hobby in late 2016, 3 years ago and it was already a year down the line from announcement then.  No doubt the culture at Barwell is different to Margate, an announcement of intent to produce a model which is in the planning stage rather than announcing one that is already in an advanced stage of production but had been kept under wraps.  The 48DS is now in the shops so I'm not sure why you are still waiting for yours.

 

I have never commented about the Accurascale 37, which I am sure will be marvellous, and will cost what it costs.  I avoid complaining about prices, because I have little knowledge of how to make money by producing, assembling, and packaging models (or sub contracting that to be done), or of distributing, marketing, and selling them; I'm a modeller, not a businessman, and happy to leave that sort of thing to those who know what they are doing.  Similarly, I am reluctant to criticise their products for not being exactly as I want them so long as they are reasonably to scale and run well; I might have designed and built it differently (or 'better', as I call it) but I don't have to factor in volume production of parts that fit together in an assembly plant or are cheap to pack and transport, nor do I have to worry about using materials which have implications for shipping underwriters or insurance companies.

 

I absolutely agree that nobody is making a fortune out of model railways, and some are probably struggling to make a living.  I very much doubt that Simon Kohler is a millionaire, and if he is it's because of investments, not what he's made from hobbies.  I have stated on many occasions on this site that 'it costs what it costs', and that Chinese workers are as entitled to a decent standard of living as anyone.  The big boys are locked in to the Chinese production model because a decade ago (and several decades prior to that) it provided high quality models at low cost because of low Chinese labour, distribution (within that large country) and raw material costs.  They still produce very high quality models to any CAD we send them, but costs are rising over there, and here, and on the high seas, so prices are driven relentlessly up.

 

There is little point in them reverting to producing here, although it would give them better control of lead times and distribution (we are currently at the mercy of Somali pirates, amongst other things).  There would be no savings of overall costs, and a question mark over quality; hi fi RTR has never been made in 4mm in the UK, and we'd gib at the price if it was; we already raise our eyebrows at the price of some H0 RTR at the same time commenting on how realistic it is and how perfectly it runs

 

The people who make our models are either small family based outfits who have risked their homes and income on it, and have to make a living or quit just to survive, or they are bigger outfits who have to satisfy shareholders and investors or go out of business.  Bachmann have their American overlords to keep happy, and Hornby have their own fiduciary masters.  I am still amazed at the very low cost of retrofit and detailing items from the likes Dart, Springside, Cambridge Custom, Wizard, 24/7 and many others, mostly guys who are in the game for the love of it, but who have to make enough to at least cover costs, which are of course heading north faster than the Flying Scotsman.

 

 

 

Bachmann isn't American

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kader

In the German market their Lilliput brand seems to have withered on the vine, unable to compete with European made Roco-Fleischmann and Marklin-Trix models and Chinese made Brawa.

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Weren't whrligigs made of chocolate in a transparent wrapper? Or am I thinking of something else?

 

A point about Bachmann and European products: Yesterday at the club one of the lads brought his Christmas present to show us all (have I got the spelling right?), a Bëilhacher snowblower. Very nice model with working twin rotary snowblades, body that could rotate 360° about its chassis, sound etc but was marked at 435€ (say £400) and 'only' 14 functions. I thought that was a tad expensive given that the latest offering from Realtrack, for example, their 156 is 'only' £330 with double chip and sound and 22 functions. The snowblower looked undernourished being H0 ;).

 

In turning to the Liliput point raised, I have in stock some stock and when comparing similar offerings from Roco or Märklin, I think Liliput have the edge - but if not popular - why not? It seems to keep its re-sale value as a 5 coach VSOE set went on one auction site for what I considered really silly money - I stopped looking as the bids went over the 400€ mark. Is it that Bachmann Europe is simply not well-known? No-one in the club really knew the name before I brought some of my UK stuff to the club.

 

When it boils down to Accurascale v. Bachmann, is it by starting small (lots of slightly unusual wagons) and offering good detail at reasonable prices - and not far off their timescales, Accurascale have made themselves a name within the modelling fraternity and perhaps to the aficionados are a first port of call? You never know Johnster, a suitable loco (or stock) from them may get to Cwmdimbath before the 94xx shows up :jester:.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

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2 hours ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

Some Roco models are now made in Vietnam, including the latest version of the ÖBB 2095 diesel in HOe.

 

Most Roco is made here. The section on motor making puts the likes of Hornby to shame

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Philou said:

You never know Johnster, a suitable loco (or stock) from them may get to Cwmdimbath before the 94xx shows up :jester:.

 

Those hoppers are fine looking wagons, but I'd need 2 rakes, one loaded and one empty, and don't have fiddle yard space for them.  I've seen a photo somewhere of 'my' Tondu 42xx, 4218, running through St Fagan's on the up with a coal train which included a single hopper, quite an unusual arrangement, and there is a Hornby 21ton hopper in my empty mineral rake (it has full and very nicely rendered interior detail that it is a shame to bury in coal).  They'd have to get a wiggle on if they are going to beat Baccy's 94xx to the market with any loco suitable for Cwmdimbath, unless the 94xx gets put back yet again (!), but I'd be highly receptive to a 2721 or Collett 31xx if they are considering dipping their toes into the GW steam game.  Or a diagram N auto trailer; Tondu had one, no.38, in BR days; in fact any auto trailer that has not yet been produced in RTR or kit form in 4mm.

 

This is unashamed and unadulterated wishlisting of course, but Accurascale seem to be a safe pair of hands at producing very good quality models at not unreasonable prices.  

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7 hours ago, maico said:

Most Roco is made here. The section on motor making puts the likes of Hornby to shame

 

Sort of.

 

Per Roco's website the precision/high value stuff is done in Austria, with the more manual labour intensive stuff done in lower cost Eastern Europe (Slovakia / Romania) or Vietnam.

 

https://www.roco.cc/en/aboutus/locations/index.html

 

But will also be interesting to see how long that lasts given current EU intentions to deal with the wage discrepancies with a European minimum wage

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/12/nordic-countries-at-odds-with-eu-over-minimum-wage

 

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The video was shot in Roco's main factory which is in Arad Romania. CAD work Austria.

 

Marklin-Trix have a similar factory in Hungary although much is still done in Goppingen Germany.

 

 

 

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Roco does have nice factories, higher wages than China.

 

But many of there toolings are old, prices are double UK and they've been making losses so bad that make Hornby look like a good show.


Piko However, all new toolings, made in those old Chinese factories with lower wages are eating the german establishment for lunch... Whats more Piko engineering standards are much higher than the UK, as are there QA controls.. and are made cheaper than UK models.

 

Whats more Piko took the market double barrelled... on one side they are making German centric models in greater detail than the current market offerings through duplication and cheap prices people are binning Roco/Trix/Fleischmann older duplicate models.. and on the otherside theyve completely taken a whole new market for themselves with more than 12 new toolings of locomotives used in Central / Eastern Europe..instead of exploiting eastern europe for cheap labour theyve created a market...  the Piko EU07 is now upto its 9th sold out Repetition ! - complete with protests on their Polish facebook page that no models hit the shelves because they were all sold out to pre-orders... (sound familiar ?) - and prevailing belief in Western Europe is that Eastern Europe is supposed to be poor yes ? How short sighted.


Theres only so much capacity in China, and the days of those factories being solely dependant on UK/US production are long gone. Lets hope though, the remaining DACH producers dont pack up and move to China.. it will be a very tight squeeze in the factories over there.

 

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4 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

It would be crazy to put up all the development costs for a 2HAP when Bachmann already have all the necessary tooling. Unless they go for one of the older designs of 2HAP.

 

Quite so, especially as Bachmann's is due out in May. But we have already seen some crazy duplication, hence my post was ironic, in case that was not noted......

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5 minutes ago, Mike Storey said:

 

Quite so, especially as Bachmann's is due out in May. But we have already seen some crazy duplication, hence my post was ironic, in case that was not noted......

 

I had not seen the Bachmann announcement. But May which year? :-)

 

Irony is often lost on the internet and phone texts.

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8 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Roco does have nice factories, higher wages than China.

 

But many of there toolings are old, prices are double UK and they've been making losses so bad that make Hornby look like a good show.


Piko However, all new toolings, made in those old Chinese factories with lower wages are eating the german establishment for lunch... Whats more Piko engineering standards are much higher than the UK, as are there QA controls.. and are made cheaper than UK models.

 

Whats more Piko took the market double barrelled... on one side they are making German centric models in greater detail than the current market offerings through duplication and cheap prices people are binning Roco/Trix/Fleischmann older duplicate models.. and on the otherside theyve completely taken a whole new market for themselves with more than 12 new toolings of locomotives used in Central / Eastern Europe..instead of exploiting eastern europe for cheap labour theyve created a market...  the Piko EU07 is now upto its 9th sold out Repetition ! - complete with protests on their Polish facebook page that no models hit the shelves because they were all sold out to pre-orders... (sound familiar ?) - and prevailing belief in Western Europe is that Eastern Europe is supposed to be poor yes ? How short sighted.


Theres only so much capacity in China, and the days of those factories being solely dependant on UK/US production are long gone. Lets hope though, the remaining DACH producers dont pack up and move to China.. it will be a very tight squeeze in the factories over there.

 

 

I only have 1 Piko, this one which was good value for 104 euros and very runs well.

https://www.besserepreise.com/modelleisenbahn/piko/piko-spur-h0/piko-spur-h0-loks/piko-spur-h0-gleichstrom-loks/piko-spur-h0-gleichstrom-dieselloks/piko-52602---diesellok-br-221.htm

I took it apart and electronics are neatly done. It doesn't use axle bearings, has plasic gearbox housings and non-metalic grab handles, so is clearly built down to a price.

I generally prefer the metal bodies and the drive trains of Trix. Brawa are made in China and I like their metal bodies too. 

Hopefully Accuracale could offer zinc alloy bodies for a premium range of models in the future without the premium price! They seem to be ticking all of the boxes so far.

 

You wouldn't happen to know the annual turnover of Piko would you? The last time I checked Marklin-Trix had revenues of just over a 100 million euros and turned in a small profit. They are almost 3 times the size of Hornby.

Talking of which, I looked at Hornby's annual report and it's noticable they carry very little debt, have significantly reduced losses and are not for sale. All positive signs compared to Roco-Fleischmann's position.

Edited by maico
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