KR Models announce the Fell in OO and N.

[Barry O]

There are differences between the original loco and the later less coupled one.

Not sure how this model is going to work.

Baz

[Pre Grouping fan]

10 hours ago, Barry O said:

There are differences between the original loco and the later less coupled one.

Not sure how this model is going to work.

Baz

It sounds to me like it will have the later body and the later 4-4-4-4 wheel arrangement with the option to change the rods to make it the earlier 4-8-4 arrangement.

I don't know enough about the fell to say what the differences in the body are but I think it's a sensible decision to make both versions commercially viable to produce. 

[chris p bacon]

10 hours ago, Barry O said:

There are differences between the original loco and the later less coupled one.

Not sure how this model is going to work.

Baz

Maybe it's so it can run with the Hattons generic coaches.....

[Colin_McLeod]

I like the idea. I will try both the

4-4-4-4 and the 4-8-4 version.

 

As I never saw the prototype any inaccuracies in using the body in

4-8-4 mode won't bother me.

[mikesndbs]

3 minutes ago, Colin_McLeod said:

I like the idea. I will try both the

4-4-4-4 and the 4-8-4 version.

 

As I never saw the prototype any inaccuracies in using the body in

4-8-4 mode won't bother me.

 

 

Absolutely agree, don't think the differences were that vast so this 'option' gives is the chance to create both as delivered then as modified versions of the loco. Keep in mind there is nowhere to add diesel and water either! ;)

[chris p bacon]

On 11/04/2020 at 11:13, mikesndbs said:

don't think the differences were that vast

 

Really .. So the bloomin great big grills on the side of the nose isn't noticable.

 

 

https://zenfolio.page.link/9eFTw

 

Edited April 12, 2020 by chris p bacon
more info

[mikesndbs]

56 minutes ago, chris p bacon said:

 

Really .. So the bloomin great big grill on the noses isn't noticable.

 

 

https://zenfolio.page.link/9eFTw

 

 

 

Greatest respect but I don't see the point you are making? Unless you are referring to the extended side grills, added to improve cooling?

For sure adding the option of 8 coupled is a compromise on some detail, but I feel it's very nice to have the option of presenting the loco as delivered with the body capturing the overall look, but then revert back to 4 coupled to be fully accurate. The option has to be applauded rather than not offered at all?

 

 

Edited April 11, 2020 by mikesndbs
Felt more info was needed

[cctransuk]

1 hour ago, Colin_McLeod said:

I like the idea. I will try both the

4-4-4-4 and the 4-8-4 version.

 

As I never saw the prototype any inaccuracies in using the body in

4-8-4 mode won't bother me.

 

It will be interesting to see if the model follows the prototype - which, in 4-8-4 format, had to have the centre rods removed, to make it a 4-4-4-4, because the transmission of forces via the rods 'fought' with the geared transmission.

 

As I understand it, the model will have geared linking of the driving axles, so the same problems that affected the prototype in 4-8-4 format may be evident in the model when fitted with the longer rods.

 

John Isherwood.

[Michael Edge]

This loco is different in almost every photo, changes were just about continuous - and for good measure when it was in black livery it's impossible to know which side of it you are looking at, it had two left facing crests. Bizarrely when it was painted green it had the early heraldically incorrect left and right facing crests so it was possible to see which side was which.

[D9001]

2 hours ago, mikesndbs said:

 

 

Greatest respect but I don't see the point you are making? Unless you are referring to the extended side grills, added to improve cooling?

For sure adding the option of 8 coupled is a compromise on some detail, but I feel it's very nice to have the option of presenting the loco as delivered with the body capturing the overall look, but then revert back to 4 coupled to be fully accurate. The option has to be applauded rather than not offered at all?

 

 

 

 

I am puzzled by Chris P Bacons remark as well; the ”bloomin great big grille in the nose” was always there in both wheel formats wasn’t it? What are you getting at, Chris? 

['CHARD]

4 minutes ago, D9001 said:

 

 

I am puzzled by Chris P Bacons remark as well; the ”bloomin great big grille in the nose” was always there in both wheel formats wasn’t it? What are you getting at, Chris? 

 

The nose side grilles; twice as many in as-built condition compared with the fine-tuned version.

[D9001]

27 minutes ago, 'CHARD said:

 

The nose side grilles; twice as many in as-built condition compared with the fine-tuned version.

 

 

I see. Didn’t even notice them so it won’t bother me, especially as mine will be black. But maybe someone will do an etched grille set. 

[Pre Grouping fan]

30 minutes ago, 'CHARD said:

 

The nose side grilles; twice as many in as-built condition compared with the fine-tuned version.

The picture posted by chris p bacon above shows 2 grills in the sides and full coupling rod so that's the as built condition? Did you mean twice as many when it was modified rather than in as-built condition?

 

Would make sense to me for it to gain grills rather than loose them as it was modified later in life and lost the middle coupling rod?

['CHARD]

2 minutes ago, Pre Grouping fan said:

The picture posted by chris p bacon above shows 2 grills in the sides and full coupling rod so that's the as built condition? Did you mean twice as many when it was modified rather than in as-built condition?

 

Would make sense to me for it to gain grills rather than loose them as it was modified later in life and lost the middle coupling rod?

 

Yes, I was dazzled by its multitude of axles and could only look extremely briefly before shielding my eyes.  You are of course, correct.  

[chris p bacon]

45 minutes ago, Pre Grouping fan said:

The picture posted by chris p bacon above shows 2 grills in the sides and full coupling rod so that's the as built condition? Did you mean twice as many when it was modified rather than in as-built condition?

 

There is a link to a 2nd picture in my post showing some of the differences.

[Barry O]

1 hour ago, D9001 said:

 

 

I see. Didn’t even notice them so it won’t bother me, especially as mine will be black. But maybe someone will do an etched grille set. 

 

Are they already  included in the Judith Edge Kit Michael?

 

Baz

[BernardTPM]

19 hours ago, D9001 said:

I see. Didn’t even notice them so it won’t bother me, especially as mine will be black. But maybe someone will do an etched grille set. 

Given there are fewer grilles in original condition what you need is an un-grille set! (Rivetted blanking panel, I guess).

Edited April 12, 2020 by BernardTPM

[Michael Edge]

16 hours ago, Barry O said:

 

Are they already  included in the Judith Edge Kit Michael?

 

Baz

The extra grilles at the nose ends were added long before the middle coupling rods were taken off, that also involved moving the numbers. Our kit includes all the options I know about but one thing I'm not sure about is the window in the body side - was there ever one on each side? It's just about impossible to tell and it (they?) was replaced by a grille at some early date. The chances of getting any model of 10100 exactly right are remote - but who would know?

[ThaneofFife]

with the 4 axle connected rod version I wonder if it had any issues negotiating tight curves if the wheels were all fixed unless there was some compensation.

[The Stationmaster]

20 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

 

I guess it depends on whether you're 'playing fictiscious trains' or 'modelling railways'

 

For me it should be modelled accurately from a snapshot in time, and left at that.

Apart from the very conspicuous cab roof vents maybe the nose end side grills could be addressed by having the large one on one side and the small ones on the other with, obviously, coupling rods to suit on each side?

 

I do wonder about geared drive between the wheels?  This is a long established standard Chinese factory approach for locos fitted with coupling rods and it can reportedly work very well if a lot of effort is put into getting it right.  And I understand from those in the know that it really does need a lot of careful design and testing (during development) attention to get it right.  But equally, witness one of DJM's efforts, it is very easy to not get it right on something as simple as a 4-coupled engine and with the Fell there are two 4-coupled engines (or an 8-coupled engine) so there is even more opportunity for slop and backlash in the gearing, and other things, which lead to problems in running.  Whatever else they might do with it KR will need to pay an awful amount of very close attention to the spec, design, quality, and manufacture, of the gearing if they are going to deliver a good runner and while some Chinese factories are able to deliver the goods in that respect others have very clearly failed to do so in the past.

[Colin_McLeod]

22 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

 

I guess it depends on whether you're 'playing fictiscious trains' or 'modelling railways'

 

For me it should be modelled accurately from a snapshot in time, and left at that.

 

That's us all told then.

 

 

Edit.

For me it should be spelt accurately as well.

 

"fictitious"

 

 

Edited April 12, 2020 by Colin_McLeod

[46256]

Dear all my attention was drawn not so much as to the ability to have the model fully coupled or not.....but the para in bold type

 

" if you havnt placed your order please do so soon. This is imperative that you do following your expression of interest so that the project moves along. Without your cooperation the project cannot proceed " 

Apologies if not the case but does this mean that people already signed up to the payment plan will not be receiving their model unless still more do so. Will there be a refund if the project is found to be unviable?

 

please everyone stay safe 

 

 

[Colin_McLeod]

Chris P Bacon I was unaware you had dyslexia so apologies, though in fairness I did not point it out. I pointed out a spelling error in response to your post saying that everything should be accurate.

 

 

Anyway I posted because I see no harm in doing what KR Models are doing. Making an accurate model of the Fell in its 4-4-4-4 mode, then as an extra for those who want it, a set of coupling rods to make it into a 4-8-4.  To look down this as "playing with fictitious trains" and then comparing that to "modelling railways" is not only snobbish but also compares apples and oranges. 

 

A train and a railway are not the same.

 

The Fell is neither a train nor a railway; it is a locomotive.

 

One can model or play with a locomotive whether it is true to prototype or not.

 

Perhaps we should all get out more.

 

Oh wait.......

 

 

Keep safe everyone.

Edited April 12, 2020 by Colin_McLeod

[D9001]

2 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

Nothing like having your dyslexia pointed out to score a point

 

 

Come on Chris, Colin was not pointing out your dyslexia to score any point, he didn’t know you are dyslexic and neither would anyone else. Unfair. 

Edited April 12, 2020 by D9001

[Joseph_Pestell]

2 hours ago, Colin_McLeod said:

 

 

Perhaps we should all get out more.

 

Oh wait.......

 

 

Keep safe everyone.

 

Not specific to this thread but I have noted a growing tetchiness on RMw as the internment goes on.