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KR Models announce the Fell in OO and N.

AY Mod

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thunderer08

thunderer08

Posted
Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, KR Models said:

 

This has been an issue from the start with this cart system.  The VAT and shipping is added in the cart depending on your shipping location.  There is no increase for using our payment plan system.  The full price is £253.50. £207.50 is the base price before the additions, which you'll see in the cart before you complete your purchase.

Let’s make it clear, I applaud your decision to make rare and unique models and wish you every success.

But full UK prices including VAT should be advertised on your website at the entry point, not once the ordering process has begun, it is misleading, see The stationmaster’s previous comment.

And to confirm, when I said it has put me off being a customer that doesn’t mean I won’t be a future customer.

 

Edited by thunderer08
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Revolution Mike

Revolution Mike

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I don’t know what system KR Models website uses but some websites use geolocation via IP addresses for displaying appropriate prices. Most of the time that works fine but some IP addresses don’t always resolve correctly to a particular location which can confuse such systems. So the price may display as incl VAT or excl VAT depending on where the geolocation thinks the IP address is. 
 

It is all over ridden once someone logs in or provides a delivery address so at the point of ordering (which is the crucial point from a VAT perspective) the customer should be shown the correct values. 
 

It isn’t 100% foolproof but it works the vast majority of the time. 
 

cheers Mike

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Bucoops

Bucoops

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10 minutes ago, red death said:

I don’t know what system KR Models website uses but some websites use geolocation via IP addresses for displaying appropriate prices. Most of the time that works fine but some IP addresses don’t always resolve correctly to a particular location which can confuse such systems. So the price may display as incl VAT or excl VAT depending on where the geolocation thinks the IP address is. 
 

It is all over ridden once someone logs in or provides a delivery address so at the point of ordering (which is the crucial point from a VAT perspective) the customer should be shown the correct values. 
 

It isn’t 100% foolproof but it works the vast majority of the time. 
 

cheers Mike

 

When I first got my static IP it was still "registered" in Germany. That got some strange results. It's now registered with the ISP as in Tewkesbury. So 157 miles instead of 400.

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maico

maico

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I'm VAT registered and have been doing my own returns for years. If I come across a supplier who doesn't display a VAT registration no. on the website or checkout cart for new items I assume they are not registered. That being the case no input VAT can be reclaimed as none is being charged.

 

 

Edited by maico
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Nova Scotian

Nova Scotian

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I wonder how much of this is cultural - in the decade plus I've been in Canada I've become very accustomed to prices being before sales tax (our HST, your VAT), with it only added at checkout.

 

I was very opposed to that when I moved, especially as you are never completely sure on the final price when buying multiple items in the event some may be tax exempt. However, I've "adjusted". It is, however, not only accepted practice, it is *the* practice here.

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mdvle

mdvle

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19 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

There appears to be a slight divergence from legal requirements in respect of prices shown on KR's website.  The ASA and HMRC require that UK advertised retail prices should include VAT and the ASA has ruled in a previous case (Vistaprint 2012) that it is misleading not to do so.  

 

Is this correct?

 

The ASA regulates ads, and the shopping cart on the KR website is not an ad.

 

Your quoted example, VistaPrint, was for a leaflet that VistaPrint had distributed and not for the VistaPrint website.

https://www.asa.org.uk/rulings/vistaprint-ltd-a13-232081.html

 

Which isn't to say that the prices on the KR website couldn't be clearer prior to getting to the shopping cart (which does state that the price excludes shipping and VAT).

 

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The Stationmaster

The Stationmaster

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3 hours ago, mdvle said:

 

Is this correct?

 

The ASA regulates ads, and the shopping cart on the KR website is not an ad.

 

Your quoted example, VistaPrint, was for a leaflet that VistaPrint had distributed and not for the VistaPrint website.

https://www.asa.org.uk/rulings/vistaprint-ltd-a13-232081.html

 

Which isn't to say that the prices on the KR website couldn't be clearer prior to getting to the shopping cart (which does state that the price excludes shipping and VAT).

 

It also applies to prices shown for online shopping, that is clear in the various regulations and on the HMRC website.  If you offer an item for sale and aim you offer at the UK market you have to show a VAT inclusive price, that is requirement of both the ASA and HMRC.    The ASA just happens to be the regulating body on this instance.  The KR website does not, as an alternative say, that the price excludes VAT - it says it does not include 'taxes' which in a UK context means that it is not compliant.   

 

When I look at an online price I expect to be what I will pay for my purchase - plus p&p unless that is shown as free.   And for many purchasers the price can be part of the determinant whether or not to purchase an item.  If other offshore companies. e.g. Accurascale who are based in the Republic of Ireland, let alone those trading from onshore UK premises or addresses can do the job properly why can't KR?   Their website appears to be very clearly aimed at customers in the UK because the (incomplete) prices it shows are in £ sterling.   Effectively not showing a correct retail price amounts to sharp practice which is why the ASA can get involved in such cases.  

 

KR keep telling us they are on a learning curve so this is really just a bit more if it.  And it is an area where all they need to do is make some very simple changes to the prices on their website.  It might, or might not, make their VAT calculation slightly more difficult when it comes to working out how much they owe HMRC but that isn't really their customers' concern.

Edited by The Stationmaster
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Mike Harvey

Mike Harvey

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VAT inclusive pricing is all well and good in theory, and certainly easier for the UK consumer to understand. Shapeways which shows its prices to me in GBP still manages to lose the original price, add a processing fee, buy a van to deliver the parcel, and then produce an invoice in euros, so that the original price is lost in the mist of add-ons and currency conversions. Getting it to show me prices in euros still doesn’t avoid most of the shenanigans.

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Philou

Philou

Posted
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Seems quite lively, pulls a fair load but still pig-ugly! I have no idea if the sounds are correct, but I shan't be one to complain when it turns up.

 

Any idea of time-scales for the decorated samples?

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

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No Decorum

No Decorum

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I would have thought that someone, somewhere remembers what this sounded like. I fancy this is a best guess and certainly captures the odd sound of six engines of two different types starting. Somewhere, in all the comments, someone at the time remarked that the sound of it moving off was “horrible”. That is not very helpful but I wouldn’t describe the sound of the model as horrible. All the same, as soon as my GT3 arrives and proves that it fires on all cylinders works well, I’ll order one. This looks and sounds like another winner for KR. :good:

 

I’ll make a probably controversial remark. It may not be the most beautiful diesel which ever ran but, IMHO, it looks better than the horrible flat-fronted Class 50. A good example of how to take a good-looking prototype and spoil it. 

 

Forth engine? Another example of KR Models’, er, non-standard spelling? :D

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The Stationmaster

The Stationmaster

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1 hour ago, No Decorum said:

I would have thought that someone, somewhere remembers what this sounded like. I fancy this is a best guess and certainly captures the odd sound of six engines of two different types starting. Somewhere, in all the comments, someone at the time remarked that the sound of it moving off was “horrible”. That is not very helpful but I wouldn’t describe the sound of the model as horrible. All the same, as soon as my GT3 arrives and proves that it fires on all cylinders works well, I’ll order one. This looks and sounds like another winner for KR. :good:

 

I’ll make a probably controversial remark. It may not be the most beautiful diesel which ever ran but, IMHO, it looks better than the horrible flat-fronted Class 50. A good example of how to take a good-looking prototype and spoil it. 

 

Forth engine? Another example of KR Models’, er, non-standard spelling? :D

I've never heard a fire bell on any British diesel which sounds anything like that (but I have only heard them on about 8 different classes so maybe slightly older ones sounded different?).    

 

The auxiliary engines were apparently 150hp AEC engines so would sound something like a DMU or 'bus engine on start up and when running and their speed seems to have varied in order to vary the blower pressure for the main (traction) engines.  Overall the sound would have been quite a bit different from any other diesel because of the multiple engines and the way the auxiliary engines worked to power the blowers.   So, for example when starting from rest the main engines would be at low rotational speed but the auxiliary engines would be running at something near to their maximum speed in order to deliver maximum blower pressure.   Equally the Roots blowers would be running at maximum output at lowest road speeds and when starting away and that would reduce as speed increased.   Presumably - although possibly muffled by the engine noise(?)  -the blowers would have also been noisy.  There are  plenty of smaller Roots blowers about still to hear what they sound like and how noisy they are, or aren't..  

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