ScotRail liveried Mk2 coaches in the mid 80's

[The Penguin 0f Doom]

Hi all.

 

I would like to model a Mk2 coach in the old ScotRail livery (as per the InterCity livery but with a Blue stripe), but photographs of coaches in this livery seem suprisingly scarce. Checking my old spotters books, the coaches below are listed as being in ScotRail livery but I wanted to know if anyone could advise of any Mk2b or Mk2c coaches were painted in this livery also please?

 

I would also like to try and find out if any of the Mk2 coaches listed (or any others that members can advise on), were specifically loco hauled only IE, not Push - Pull fitted. I am aware that some Mk2s were formed in push pull sets for use with the 47/7s and I'd prefer not to model one of these.

 

Finally (and I know I should know this), but when did non Mk3/DBSO coaches start to get the ScotRail livery applied (I really wish I'd paid more attention back in the day).

 

I have only listed 2nd class coaches as I cannot justify a 1st class coach in the rake I have planned.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Mk2z

5146

5152

5153

5176

5197

 

Mk2d

5623

5653

5659

5662

5663

5671

5673

5694

5711

5716

5726

5740

 

Mk2d (Mini Buffet)

6601

6604

6605

6613

6614

6619

 

Mk2e

5813

[hexagon789]

1 hour ago, The Penguin 0f Doom said:

Hi all.

 

I would like to model a Mk2 coach in the old ScotRail livery (as per the InterCity livery but with a Blue stripe), but photographs of coaches in this livery seem suprisingly scarce. Checking my old spotters books, the coaches below are listed as being in ScotRail livery but I wanted to know if anyone could advise of any Mk2b or Mk2c coaches were painted in this livery also please?

 

Only 5 Mk1 BG, and a selection of Mk2z, Mk2d, Mk2e, Mk2f and Mk3a gained ScotRail Sector blue-stripe livery.

 

Quote

I would also like to try and find out if any of the Mk2 coaches listed (or any others that members can advise on), were specifically loco hauled only IE, not Push - Pull fitted. I am aware that some Mk2s were formed in push pull sets for use with the 47/7s and I'd prefer not to model one of these.

The push-pull system used the lighting circuits to transmit control signals, therefore any coaching stock could be formed between a 47/7 and DBSO and the train operated push-pull.

 

Quote

 

Finally (and I know I should know this), but when did non Mk3/DBSO coaches start to get the ScotRail livery applied (I really wish I'd paid more attention back in the day).

1985

 

Quote

 

I have only listed 2nd class coaches as I cannot justify a 1st class coach in the rake I have planned.

How long is the rake? Sets of Mk2 stock routinely operated as 5 coaches with a full first.

 

Alternatively there was a scratch set used for a peak Dunblane-Edinburgh which I believe was formed 4 Mk2z TSO+a DBSO.

 

 

Edited November 23, 2019 by hexagon789

[The Penguin 0f Doom]

Thankyou Hexagon788.

 

So, to get this straight in my mind, the Mk2z coaches were not exclusively Push - Pull stock, but could appear in standard loco hauled trains too? I don't want to use a DBSO, just standard stock you see.

 

This brings me to answer the next question, I only have capacity for a maximum of 4 coaches, so a little bit of modellers licence has to be applied, hence foregoing any 1st class accomodation on this particular train (well, any full 1st class Mk2s - I may use a Mk1 CK or BCK in the set). I just wanted to add a little livery variety to my rake as opposed having a full Blue/Grey set.

 

Many thanks for your answer. :)

[Flood]

Strictly speaking all the ScotRail liveried coaches, bar 5813, were dedicated to push-pull rakes. They could work in any rake but there were not that many spares to be able to release them for other traffic. 5813 was a Polmadie allocated Cross-Country coach that was repainted ScotRail in error but was not painted in INTERCITY until 1988/89.

 

Note that they are all air-braked stock. I think you will find that a Mk1 CK or BCK would have been vacuum braked at that time. As Hexagon states the Dunblane set (9709, 5153, 5146, 5152, 5176, 47710 on 8 July 1985) would be a good rake. You could easily state a DBSO failure and have a blue and grey Mk2a BSO instead.

 

Edit: Perhaps a scratch set of Mk2a BSO (B/G), 2 Mk2z TSO, Mk2a TSO (B/G) would suffice. Craigentinny had quite a few Mk2a coaches for both the Inverness workings (blue and grey branded ScotRail) or for Cross-Country (blue and grey but branded InterCity).

Edited November 25, 2019 by Flood

[D6975]

There were also a number of ScotRail-ish mk2s about in the early 90s.  These were NSE liveried Mk2s with the red stripe painted over with light blue.  So they looked like ScotRail livery but with dark blue uppers.

[AeBor]

On 25/11/2019 at 17:30, D6975 said:

There were also a number of ScotRail-ish mk2s about in the early 90s.  These were NSE liveried Mk2s with the red stripe painted over with light blue.  So they looked like ScotRail livery but with dark blue uppers.

 

I think that there is a picture of the early 90’s one on the Tower Homepage 

[hexagon789]

On 24/11/2019 at 10:40, The Penguin 0f Doom said:

Thankyou Hexagon788.

 

So, to get this straight in my mind, the Mk2z coaches were not exclusively Push - Pull stock, but could appear in standard loco hauled trains too? I don't want to use a DBSO, just standard stock you see.

Technically they were in a pool dedicated to the push-pull workings but they could be used in non-push-pull services.

 

On 24/11/2019 at 10:40, The Penguin 0f Doom said:

 

This brings me to answer the next question, I only have capacity for a maximum of 4 coaches, so a little bit of modellers licence has to be applied, hence foregoing any 1st class accomodation on this particular train (well, any full 1st class Mk2s - I may use a Mk1 CK or BCK in the set). I just wanted to add a little livery variety to my rake as opposed having a full Blue/Grey set.

 

I found something which may well be perfect. Watching a video from July 1986 and a Dundee-Edinburgh scratch set appeared at one point formed of a 47/4 hauling 3 ScotRail livery Mk2z and a blue/grey Mk2a BSO. 4 coaches, no First Class. That might fit what you're looking for?

 

On 25/11/2019 at 12:06, Flood said:

Strictly speaking all the ScotRail liveried coaches, bar 5813, were dedicated to push-pull rakes. They could work in any rake but there were not that many spares to be able to release them for other traffic. 5813 was a Polmadie allocated Cross-Country coach that was repainted ScotRail in error but was not painted in INTERCITY until 1988/89.

I think I was trying to emphasise that any air-braked carriage could be used in a push-pull set, but I didn't intend to suggest the ScotRail livery Mk2z weren't normally used in such workings.

 

On 25/11/2019 at 12:06, Flood said:

 

Note that they are all air-braked stock. I think you will find that a Mk1 CK or BCK would have been vacuum braked at that time. As Hexagon states the Dunblane set (9709, 5153, 5146, 5152, 5176, 47710 on 8 July 1985) would be a good rake. You could easily state a DBSO failure and have a blue and grey Mk2a BSO instead.

I've found one such example of just that! Though only 4 coaches in all.

 

On 25/11/2019 at 12:06, Flood said:

Edit: Perhaps a scratch set of Mk2a BSO (B/G), 2 Mk2z TSO, Mk2a TSO (B/G) would suffice. Craigentinny had quite a few Mk2a coaches for both the Inverness workings (blue and grey branded ScotRail) or for Cross-Country (blue and grey but branded InterCity).

Would such formations also have been seen on the Edinburgh-Dundee workings or were they vacuum braked stock normally unless such was unavailable? 

 

[Flood]

1 hour ago, hexagon789 said:

I found something which may well be perfect. Watching a video from July 1986 and a Dundee-Edinburgh scratch set appeared at one point formed of a 47/4 hauling 3 ScotRail livery Mk2z and a blue/grey Mk2a BSO. 4 coaches, no First Class. That might fit what you're looking for?

Sounds like a very good compromise rake to me.

 

I think I was trying to emphasise that any air-braked carriage could be used in a push-pull set, but I didn't intend to suggest the ScotRail livery Mk2z weren't normally used in such workings. That's no problem at all. I wasn't aiming to contradict you, it was more an answer to the Penguin's last post.

 

Would such formations also have been seen on the Edinburgh-Dundee workings or were they vacuum braked stock normally unless such was unavailable? They were normally the vacuum braked stock but as you said above (and I have seen the same video) exceptions did occur.

 

 

Edited November 27, 2019 by Flood

[The Penguin 0f Doom]

Thanks for the concise replys guys.

 

Looks like I'll have to plug the video recorder in (when I find it), as I might also have that video stashed away somewhere.

 

Plenty to ne going on there though, so I'd best start deciding which way I'll be going (can only afford to model one coach at the mo).

 

Cheers again.

[D6975]

On 27/11/2019 at 10:40, AeBor said:

 

I think that there is a picture of the early 90’s one on the Tower Homepage 

No, that's the later version of Scotrail regional livery.

 

[Waverley47708]

On 27/11/2019 at 21:40, hexagon789 said:

 

 

 

I found something which may well be perfect. Watching a video from July 1986 and a Dundee-Edinburgh scratch set appeared at one point formed of a 47/4 hauling 3 ScotRail livery Mk2z and a blue/grey Mk2a BSO. 4 coaches, no First Class. That might fit what you're looking for?

 

 

 

 

Here is a link to one of the excellent Alan Harrison videos.  At 10:25 mins there is a 47 hauling 3 Mk2 TSOs in ScotRail and a Blue Grey BSO presumably to Dundee.  I think one of his other videos has the same rake at Dundee heading South.

 

 

 

[hexagon789]

7 hours ago, Waverley47708 said:

 

Here is a link to one of the excellent Alan Harrison videos.  At 10:25 mins there is a 47 hauling 3 Mk2 TSOs in ScotRail and a Blue Grey BSO presumably to Dundee.  I think one of his other videos has the same rake at Dundee heading South.

 

 

 

I think I may have seen a photo on Flickr of the same set at Dundee. I assume that they were treated as loose vehicles at some point and not made up as a spare push-pull set as was originally done, so could turn up on other routes if required.

[47475]

The same video features a 27 hauling the same set at the end. It seems some of the ScotRail livery MK2Zs had the silver window features but at least one did not.

 

I actually didn't realise so few MK2 non-aircon vehicles received the full ScotRail livery.