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Availability Dec-March 2020

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On 26/11/2019 at 18:34, Downer said:


The shareholder is the one who has money he can afford to lose.

 

How I wish that were true.  As a pensioner, my pension is invested on my behalf with many companies (maybe even Kader).  But if there are sustained losses then my pension pot runs out and I have no pension.  So I cannot afford to lose - and for anyone with a company pension, that will obliquely apply to you too.

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On ‎24‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 20:54, AlexHolt said:

Everything from Bachmann just keeps getting more and more expensive. I was planning to pick up an SECR Birdcage set but looking at the prices now I'm kind of put off. £80 per coach, 3 in a set so looking at £240 for only three coaches. Thats insane, its not even a new tooling. 

 

My BR crimson Birdcages came in a deal, £150 for the three at an exhibition half-an-hour before closing on the Sunday, shortly after first release. They are super models and I think they were well worth that. Recent Hornby coaches have generally been pitched around that level and I don't think twice.

 

I did pay (IIRC) over £60 each for a Bachmann Inspection saloon and an Auto-trailer. It seems reasonable to me that such singular types cost more and I only wanted one anyhow, though I did get a second Auto-trailer for £39 a couple of years on. I too would balk at £80 a throw except for real "must-haves".

 

Wagons are a weakness of mine and I already have lots more than I can ever justify or use at once. All-new ones in blue boxes largely seem to have dried up in the past couple of years, TMC commissions excepted (the double bolsters are very nice). They, along with recent Hornby cattle and brake vans have fully honoured their £20+ asking prices IMHO.

 

Bachmann loco and coach prices have never really bothered me too much, largely because they seldom make things that I want in multiples. I had all the Mk1s I'll ever need long before prices started heading north.

 

I'll not be buying a crane, brilliant though it looks. Nothing to do with price, I'd simply be too scared to take it out of the box! My next acquisitions from Bachmann will be a BR (LMR) 0-4-4T and several Bulleid coaches but, as ever, I'll have had a number of years to save up for them.

 

John

Edited by Dunsignalling

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9 hours ago, Andy Hayter said:

 

How I wish that were true.  As a pensioner, my pension is invested on my behalf with many companies (maybe even Kader).  But if there are sustained losses then my pension pot runs out and I have no pension.  So I cannot afford to lose - and for anyone with a company pension, that will obliquely apply to you too.

My own pension (Royal Mail) is a major investor in art and sculpture as well as investing in the market.  

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Regardless of income everyone has their own glass ceiling.

 

ive spent about £3k on train modelling this year....becuase I have a new layout I’ve been developing as well as buying stock. 
 

The problem is as the prices for say , the 37, rise, it moves from a , “ that’s quite nice I’ll get a couple more “ to “ nah, too much for the tooling “.

 

one things for certain, I’ll need to keep buying something because  when I retire in 13 years I reckon I’ll be on about £150 a week tops, 

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For the modeller, assuming there is budget available,  it is probably about value for money along with desire to own the model.  For sure prices indicated for this year seem to me to be expensive, I'm waiting for the revised 158 & 170 offerings and they are looking expensive, however seeing the prices second-hand  with dealers and on eBay then by comparison they don't seem quite so bad.

 

This is more down to silly prices for the used stuff, particularly as older models with no DCC capabilities then for me at least hance the additional cost of hard wiring plus the sound chips. In reality the sound models price out at around £200 for a power car & £100 for the unpowered car.  In an ideal world it want to get three DMUs, but in reality prices will probably restrict this to two. Also to blame perhaps are Accurascale & Hattons, who will both be taking a slice of the budget.

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I'm glad to say that a few items from this list have now dropped onto our door mat, so you should be seeing them at your local shop soon.

 

We have a bumper crop of diesels!

  • 32-395 WCRC Maroon Class 37 (pictured)
  • 32-395DS WCRC Maroon Class 37 Sound Fitted
  • 32-394 Colas Rail Class 37
  • 32-394DS Colas Rail Class 37 Sound Fitted
  • 32-027B BR Green SYP Class 20
  • 32-035B BR Blue Domino Headcode Class 20
  • 32-030DS BR Railfreight Red Stripe Class 20 Sound Fitted

49157435996_255fc41dc6_b.jpg

32-395 by Derails Models, on Flickr

Edited by Derails Models
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On 28/11/2019 at 15:35, The Johnster said:

You’ll be paying £80 and more soon enough, mate.  Prices rise and never fall because of Malthusian Economics, and  manufacturers increase value with DCC opening doors, sound fx, and ever more detail.  

 

£40 for a 4-wheel van?  I didn’t think so either, but that’s what a Hornby BY costs...

.... and for the people who missed the original runs of ex-SR "Pillbox" brakes, they will be able to look forward to possibly forking out £34 next year!

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On ‎27‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 16:43, Steamport Southport said:

Don't take up modern.

 

Watching the Drax trains you would need 25 of the wagons. That's over £2000 before you even think about the loco.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/newsdetail.aspx?id=459

 

 

Jason

 

If you can afford a layout big enough to run a train more than 20' long on (without it looking ludicrous) and own a house with a spare bedroom or attic big enough to accommodate such a layout, maybe the cost of the trains shouldn't be an issue...

 

John

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8 hours ago, Right Away said:

.... and for the people who missed the original runs of ex-SR "Pillbox" brakes, they will be able to look forward to possibly forking out £34 next year!

Quite probably, and IIRC the most recent run (weathered) had already broken through the £25 barrier anyway.

 

However, the initial releases took two or three months to disappear and any committed Southern enthusiasts should/would have got at least some the first time around. I got the two I wanted without any difficulty or desperation.

 

I have been thinking about getting one more (and still might) but the forthcoming Hornby ex-LSWR brake van has pushed it down my wanted list.

 

John

Edited by Dunsignalling

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On ‎28‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 15:35, The Johnster said:

You’ll be paying £80 and more soon enough, mate.  Prices rise and never fall because of Malthusian Economics, and  manufacturers increase value with DCC opening doors, sound fx, and ever more detail.  

 

£40 for a 4-wheel van?  I didn’t think so either, but that’s what a Hornby BY costs...

It might do now, but that's much more than it did when first released. Mind you, it's much more than a simple box van in terms of size and complexity and I doubt if it would be as "cheap" as £40 if it came in a blue box....   

 

£40 is also way more than one needs to pay for a BY. At Newton Abbot swapmeet on Sunday, there was a choice of three mint/boxed BR crimson ones (usually quite hard to find) on offer at prices between £22 and £28.

 

John

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On 26/11/2019 at 17:34, Downer said:


The shareholder is the one who has money he can afford to lose.

They really aren’t - have had first hand experience of shareholders who for the love of whatever it is they do, tried to make it into a business and lost what little money they had. Admittedly not one of the big four of UK model train manufacture, but even they really don’t have money they can afford to lose. 

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I was always in the stop moaning about cost brigade, and to be honest I still am to an extent. What I am finding, however, is that Bachmann (amongst others) is now becoming an irrelevance as the stock of interest is either outdated and no longer to today's standards or off in the future and I can't buy it. Why commit £180 on a new loco pre-order from Bachmann  when I can spend less and get a better model now / very soon?

 

I just had a look at my most recent purchases (last couple of years), only five Bachmann locos: two 009 Baldwins, two 47/7s and a Class 37. Over similar periods in the past that would have been double that at least. My total rail spend has increased, but the destination has changed. Where once Bachmann took the lion's share, it is now getting less than 25%.

 

Roy

Edited by Roy Langridge
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1 hour ago, Roy Langridge said:

I was always in the stop moaning about cost brigade, and to be honest I still am to an extent. What I am finding, however, is that Bachmann (amongst others) is now becoming an irrelevance as the stock of interest is either outdated and no longer to today's standards or off in the future and I can't buy it. Why commit £180 on a new loco pre-order from Bachmann  when I can spend less and get a better model now / very soon?

 

I just had a look at my most recent purchases (last couple of years), only five Bachmann locos: two 009 Baldwins, two 47/7s and a Class 37. Over similar periods in the past that would have been double that at least. My total rail spend has increased, but the destination has changed. Where once Bachmann took the lion's share, it is now getting less than 25%.

 

Roy

 

Spot on post & ditto.

I have had minimal purchases from Bachmann or Hornby for a while due to them not offering products within my current day era that are up to the newest standards and yes my attention has now turned to other players who are taking it to the next level such as Accurascale (in a big way - modern wagons & loco's), Hatton's (modern wagons & Class 66), Cavalex (Class 91 Project), Heljan (jury is still out for me plus will be a while before they cater for current day i.e Class 47, Class 86 except 1 Freightliner) & to a certain extent Dapol (Class 68 & soon Class 59 & maybe some new wagons).

Don't get me wrong I'm not bagging the 2 big boys but they really need to up their game with new tooling (modern image & not steam related in my case) and yes Bachmann recently released their Class 90 which I purchased but there really isn't anything else on the horizon for me personally that will get my purchases as far as diesel or electric loco's are concerned or even wagons due to their pricing compared to the others especially the likes of Accurascale who seem to be very competitive.

Thankfully I guessed this shift in new tooling being done by others about 12-18 months ago and offloaded all my Bachmann Class 37's, 47's & 66's and just waited for others to seize the day and they have.

Like Roy pointed out my spending hasn't changed it's who I purchase from has changed.

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1 hour ago, Roy Langridge said:

Bachmann (amongst others) is now becoming an irrelevance as the stock of interest is either outdated and no longer to today's standards or off in the future

 

11 minutes ago, classy52 said:

my attention has now turned to other players who are taking it to the next level such as Accurascale (in a big way - modern wagons & loco's), Hatton's (modern wagons & Class 66),

 

Me 3.

 

A couple of years ago, I would've been interested in Bachmann's announcement of their Class 66 as 66779 'Evening Star'. Now my reaction is a solid 'meh', and I just hope that Hattons bring out that livery at some point.

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On 25/11/2019 at 07:08, AlexHolt said:

 

Its pretty similar to what I noticed with Hornby. 

At the Hornby Visitor Centre they have SR S15s which are £155 brand new and they are selling them for £75, still new and unopened. They must still be making a profit off it otherwise they wouldn't drop it to that price. They were also doing this with the K1, A3, A4, SR Schools Class, Class 153 and almost every other locomotive on the shelf there, everything had 50% off. It just shows how much less they could actually be sold for and it really is just a case of companies marking the price as high as they can for maximum profit. Sure they need to make a profit but they are pricing people out of the hobby. 

 

I'll definitely be holding off until they either go down in price or get put in a bundle. The way it stands at the moment £80 for a single coach is far too much. For £80 I'd expect it to have lights, people and all sorts of additional detail out of the box but it doesn't. 

 

 

Why do you assume they are selling at a profit?  If Hornby has surplus stock and a massive overdraft they may just be cutting their losses.  People complain that the little shops have closed down.  Well those little shops may have to buy their stock at 40% off list MRP.  They also may have to pay for delivery of that stock as well as paying for the shop and any staff.  A higher price allows some of those overheads to be met and allow a small discount to the customer to compete with the larger on-line shops.  If people wait for the bankruptcy sale there won't be any new stock coming.

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8 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

I was always in the stop moaning about cost brigade, and to be honest I still am to an extent. What I am finding, however, is that Bachmann (amongst others) is now becoming an irrelevance as the stock of interest is either outdated and no longer to today's standards or off in the future and I can't buy it. Why commit £180 on a new loco pre-order from Bachmann  when I can spend less and get a better model now / very soon?

 

I just had a look at my most recent purchases (last couple of years), only five Bachmann locos: two 009 Baldwins, two 47/7s and a Class 37. Over similar periods in the past that would have been double that at least. My total rail spend has increased, but the destination has changed. Where once Bachmann took the lion's share, it is now getting less than 25%.

 

Roy

I've got to the point that, if something is good enough and I want it badly enough, I'll pay what's asked.

 

If it doesn't qualify on both counts, I'll keep my cash aside for the next thing that does...   

 

Unfortunately for Bachmann, my main interests lie in the ex-LSWR patch of the BR (S) scene, and that generally means fairly slim pickings for them and rather better ones for their main competitor.

 

John

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3 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

I've got to the point that, if something is good enough and I want it badly enough, I'll pay what's asked.

 

If it doesn't qualify on both counts, I'll keep my cash aside for the next thing that does...   

 

Unfortunately for Bachmann, my main interests lie in the ex-LSWR patch of the BR (S) scene, and that generally means fairly slim pickings for them and rather better ones for their main competitor.

 

John

 

Yep - that is just where I am at. The only thing that Bachmann is producing in the future that I have any interest in is the southern EMUs, with the HAP starting next year, At the moment a £220 price tag from the box shifters is keeping me back from pre-ordering, I know I will relent later on.

 

It really does pain me to see Bachmann in this position. The release of their new product range used to be a highlight of the year, now I almost see their announcements as close to election promises, may come in time, but not guaranteed, and will cost me in the long run.

 

I should have caveated my post earlier (and this one) - that this mainly relates to 00. The 009 offerings from Bachmann seem to be much more relevant to today and will probably relieve me of some hard-earned cash.


Roy 

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2 hours ago, Bishdurham said:

 

Why do you assume they are selling at a profit?  If Hornby has surplus stock and a massive overdraft they may just be cutting their losses.  People complain that the little shops have closed down.  Well those little shops may have to buy their stock at 40% off list MRP.  They also may have to pay for delivery of that stock as well as paying for the shop and any staff.  A higher price allows some of those overheads to be met and allow a small discount to the customer to compete with the larger on-line shops.  If people wait for the bankruptcy sale there won't be any new stock coming.

 

I was down in Kent a few days ago and nearly dropped by the Visitor Centre.

 

Are they offering discounts on these items to retailers (all retailers not just the box sshifters), at a level which would enable the retailer to sell to the public at these massively discounted prices. If not, they are strangling their own distribution network and that can only lead to long-term failure of the business.

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46 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

I was down in Kent a few days ago and nearly dropped by the Visitor Centre.

 

Are they offering discounts on these items to retailers (all retailers not just the box sshifters), at a level which would enable the retailer to sell to the public at these massively discounted prices. If not, they are strangling their own distribution network and that can only lead to long-term failure of the business.

The thread has already been here  - read it from the start

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On 24/11/2019 at 20:19, truffy said:

Hrmph...still no mention of the Bulleid 64' coaches. Hopefully they're using the time to perfect the glazing.

They will be another 18 months at least I reckon as we've not seen CAD images yet. 

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I've certainly hit a 'ceiling' in terms of spending on model railways and this has, to a certain extent, dictated plans for the latest layout - depot-based rather than long trains in the landscape, so no need for long (and expensive) rakes of coaches or freight stock. To my mind the most frustrating thing is the immense delays between announcements and items appearing on the shelves and given that this period has been years in several cases, interest wanes, prices rise, money has to go elsewhere and life moves on. For example, I've given up waiting for Farish Mk2 air conditioned coaches and moved back to OO with aforementioned depot layout. 

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There will (hopefully) always be another new product which might be added to the  modeller's "would like/must have" list.

 

Regarding the perceived availability dates of newly announced items that may have whetted one's appetite when announced and the ever ongoing wait (the Bulleid main liners as already mentioned being an example), it can sometimes be gratifying to step back and appreciate what we already have.  

To be kept in the picture of future developments is one thing but from a personal perspective, these statements of intent are beginning to loose credibility. It is appreciated that newly tooled, intricately detailed models simply cannot appear on the shelves overnight as it were, but the "little boy" inside me wants to know WHEN?? 

 

When the decision to release the aforementioned coaches was first announced, I, like many, was quite excited. As the months rolled by with no real update on their release, interest in them begins to wane.

 

It's said "if a thing's worth waiting for....etc, etc", but hey, come on. This old fart ain't getting any younger!

 

 

 

 

Edited by Right Away
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36 minutes ago, Right Away said:

There will (hopefully) always be another new product which might be added to the  modeller's "would like/must have" list.

 

Regarding the perceived availability dates of newly announced items that may have whetted one's appetite when announced and the ever ongoing wait (the Bulleid main liners as already mentioned being an example), it can sometimes be gratifying to step back and appreciate what we already have.  

To be kept in the picture of future developments is one thing but from a personal perspective, these statements of intent are beginning to loose credibility. It is appreciated that newly tooled, intricately detailed models simply cannot appear on the shelves overnight as it were, but the "little boy" inside me wants to know WHEN?? 

 

When the decision to release the aforementioned coaches was first announced, I, like many, was quite excited. As the months rolled by with no real update on their release, interest in them begins to wane.

 

It's said "if a thing's worth waiting for....etc, etc", but hey, come on. This old fart ain't getting any younger!

 

 

 

 

 

There haven't been many must haves from Bachmann for quite some time, most the tooling is years old at this point but still has a premium price tag. A few years ago the must haves were the birdcages, but for those that missed out they've re released them in a simpler livery with a higher price than the initial release not as many people are interested. When a must have model appears now days its usually from a smaller manufacturer or an exclusive, rarely ever from one of the big two.

 

You raise a pretty valid point about release times and announcements, they are more statements of intent than actual announcements. The Ransomes and Rapier Steam crane is a good example, announced some time around the end of 2014 and only just coming to the market. A period of five years with very few updates or even knowing if the project is still ongoing. The Mk2f's were the same case.  I can't even remember when the Bulleid Coaches were announced but it must have been at least a few years. I'd rather only see announcements if they are actually going to come out within the next 12-18 months or if we're kept in the loop such as with the Rails Terrier. 

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17 hours ago, Butler Henderson said:

The thread has already been here  - read it from the start

 

A bit blunt!

 

But, at your instigation, I have just read the whole thread. And the effect on retailers is not addressed much, if at all.

 

We have mentioned it on other threads and we thought that Hornby had begun to understand, since the new regime came in, that this was not a good way to run things. But apparently, no doubt under some considerable financial pressure, they have reverted to this flawed policy.

 

They need to get much better at predicting what products will sell and in what quantity so they do not have these excesses of stock to sell off.

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I’m in a bit of a holding pattern with Bachmann ,

 

i’ve invested heavily in their locos from the start, and have classes 37, 45, 47,66. I need more EWS era 37s but I have enough to keep the layout going until accurascale does that period - if the blue box ones were a £100 id have a few more now.

 

45 - my BR era is kinda Home Counties so the quantity (1) and standard is acceptable, don’t need more.

 

47 - further purchases on hold.

 

66- no more purchases pending reviews of hattons product. I’ll keep the 2 EWS ones to make up the numbers and they are good enough for now and anyway they fetch not much on eBay.

 

 

so should Bachmann be worried ? Well, maybe that a loyal loco buyer isn’t looking at buying anything from them in the future.....I still like their range of modern wagons though and coaches.

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