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Modelling an NSWGR KA Tramcar using laser-cutting.


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33 minutes ago, hartleymartin said:

Not sure how I let that goof get to the laser-cutter


oh, it’s very easy, believe me. There are a lot of different parts that have to be defined, and I’d say it would be unusual to get everything right the first go.

 

Here’s how I know. It was not the first iteration of the coach, and I’m designing the brake now, which will be even flakier until I get my first test build done. :)

post-14192-0-04347400-1515875239_thumb.jpg


your model is looking fantastic.

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Had to make a few adjustments to the roof underframe. It was about 1mm too long and needed a few passes of the file down the sides to fit inside the built up body.

 

Had a real hard time figuring out how to attach the arc roof to the frame, until I remembered that clothes pegs are basically lots of tiny spring clamps.

 

645255532_KATestBuild04.jpg.2f208d38ee0e70fa67e415ae958838c7.jpg

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Can anyone offer suggestions as to suitable card materials for the roof? Whilst it was cut in 0.8mm laser-ply, I have found that the roof is too stiff, and the sides will leave irregular gaps. I'm wondering if it may be better to design it so that the roof and body are one piece that separates from the chassis for the purposes of interior painting, detailing, etc.

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2 hours ago, hartleymartin said:

Can anyone offer suggestions as to suitable card materials for the roof? Whilst it was cut in 0.8mm laser-ply, I have found that the roof is too stiff, and the sides will leave irregular gaps. I'm wondering if it may be better to design it so that the roof and body are one piece that separates from the chassis for the purposes of interior painting, detailing, etc.

 

Normal plasticard? 

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The only trouble with plasticard is that I've had warpage problems over the years and as this is an unsupported roof over an end verandah, I want something that will stay put for the most part.

 

At one stage, I was going to just use strips of scale timber glued together and sanded to shape in the manner of carvel planking, but not something I'd recommend.

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A re-design of the kit is that the body and roof will glue up as one piece and the floor/chassis will be a separate piece. I have to re-design a few things since the arrangement of the tabs and slots assumes building the body on top of the floor, but this will ensure that the roof forms perfectly to the body.

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  • 1 month later...

Found these in a facebook group about the Camden to Campbelltown tramline...

 

KA 778 arriving at Parramatta Park 9-3-1972

 

crriage.jpg.072f976ba7fc9952e34dc99736122518.jpg

 

KA 778 at Cootamundra, January 1972. It had been a First Aid station.

crriage2.jpg.b14306b3a398a694ee13d89ef02b0874.jpg

 

 

Edited by monkeysarefun
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An old venetian blind slat could work for the roof, especially if you can get one from an older house with the wider slats.  I have a stock of them which I have used in the past for 4 wheel vans and a small railmotor.

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  • 2 years later...

A little over 2 years later. Yeah, there was some global emergency which distracted us all for a while. I have a test-build, with annotations written on to correct some dimensional errors. Unfortunately, about 6 months ago my old computer up and died, and I am not sure if the original CAD files managed to make the transition to the new machine. I only have the svg files exported for the laser-cutter, but not the odg files which has all the original features and points. But I know that those drawings are 90%+ correct and complete so I can leave them alone. I will have to redraw the underframe components.

 

I am looking to obtain near-enough components from existing manufacturers' catalogues to complete the model, but the one thing which remains is the bogies. I learned to do the 2D CAD for laser-cutting and that I adequately understand. I don't really want to learn 3D CAD just for the bogies.

 

I have decided to change the way the model is assembled. I had originally wanted to keep the roof a separate component, but I get bad gaps in the join which I cannot correct. I think now that it should be that the body and roof are assembled together and the floor/chassis is the separate component.

 

I am less concerned with getting everything 100% correct, as no two photographs or drawings show exactly the same details on KA Tramcars. It seems that with just four carriages ever built, all of them were eventually unique and had different appearances at different times and places.

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So we are now at revision 20 of the laser-cutting artwork. Mostly minor dimensional adjustments to some of the underlaying roof components, Correction to the bogie pivot points (10mm too far apart on Rev 19) And additional slots and tabs to cater for new assembly method where roof and body are a single component and the floor/chassis/underframe are a single component.

 

I no longer have the original drawing files, but I do have the *.svg export files where individual elements can no longer be edited, but I can always place a white box over sections and draw new lines over them.

 

KA_Tramcar_CAD_Artwork_600x300_Rev_20.jpg.83917657eaff2a102b908b737f3ea59d.jpg

Edited by hartleymartin
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And now on Revision 4 of the underframe components. I plan to have this cut in 2.5mm Basswood, but 2.5mm Plywood will also work. The triangles are fillet pieces which will be used to strengthen the connection with the bufferbeams. I plan to use Dapol screw-link couplings pre-assembled. I tried several times to assemble the slaters working screw link couplings, and probably could have bought several wagon kits with the money. I botched every single attempt, so I gave up on those.

 

KA_Tramcar_Underframe_Rev_04.jpg.1dbc8d3860a41581ec4971700abe3b01.jpg

 

I have also identified several components from an American manufacturer which appear to be suitable, or at least close-enough to save me the bother of scratch-building them:

 

1447931171_DRGWopenplatformrailingsPSCoCatalogue1292.png.e45c479808b29efd332218162afe0738.png812751988_QueenpostsLargePSCoCatalogue48175.png.4125fe92d14115087e3850830cb1af4e.png

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On 14/02/2020 at 21:42, Marbelup said:

An old venetian blind slat could work for the roof, especially if you can get one from an older house with the wider slats.  I have a stock of them which I have used in the past for 4 wheel vans and a small railmotor.

 

I did look into that, but found that I could get what I needed from 0.8mm plywood. I have drawn that component up, but not shown it since it is basically a rectangle with rounded corners, a few holes for the oil-lamp pots and scribed planking lines which also help make it more bendy on the ribs which form the arc.

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On 06/03/2022 at 20:31, hartleymartin said:

Also, just saying that if someone is able to do the patternwork for the bogies for me, I am sure we can come to some arrangement where I will send you all the other components for you to build your own KA Tramcar or something similar.

Hey mate, would you be looking at 3D printing them?

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On 09/03/2022 at 10:45, monkeysarefun said:

Hey mate, would you be looking at 3D printing them?

 

I've contacted Tim at CWRailways to do the 3D CAD artwork. I considered 3D-printed bogies, but I am concerned they would not be durable enough in O gauge. I am looking at 3D-printed masters then having a batch cast in either brass or pewter.

 

bogie-side-frame-small.png.4faf51a29ce8ce106777965930ffa997.png

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I would depend on the plastic used in the print and the technique used to print them. But some plastics would be able to cope. I'm experimenting with printing wheel centres using an ABS equivalent and it looking ok. 

 

Marc 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 10/03/2022 at 21:18, MarcD said:

I would depend on the plastic used in the print and the technique used to print them. But some plastics would be able to cope. I'm experimenting with printing wheel centres using an ABS equivalent and it looking ok. 

 

Marc 

 

Marc - I may have to follow you up on that. I would like the prototype 8-spoke locomotive wheels for the Australian Manning Wardle locomotives which are not produced by Slaters or any other wheel manufacturer I am aware of.

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I discovered that I am eligible to use AutoCAD under education access so I am using it to fix up the old drawings. I no longer have access to the original drawing files, but I do have the PDFs exported from them, which I have been able to import and convert to a proper CAD drawing. I get much better precision than I ever could on the other program. This revelation came about because I had to complete a number of hours of CAD exercises as part of my furniture-maker's trade certificate. I've learned the basics of 2D CAD in a program that makes sense to me.

Edited by hartleymartin
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1 hour ago, hartleymartin said:

I discovered that I am eligible to use AutoCAD under education access so I am using it to fix up the old drawings. I no longer have access to the original drawing files, but I do have the PDFs exported from them, which I have been able to import and convert to a proper CAD drawing. I get much better precision than I ever could on the other program. This revelation came about because I had to complete a number of hours of CAD exercises as part of my furniture-maker's trade certificate. I've learned the basics of 2D CAD in a program that makes sense to me.

If the pdfs are direct from a drawing program you can import them straight into Autocad with the pdf import function, some train manufacturers provide line drawings in their pdf brochures that can be imported this way, if you happen to know a few key dimensions of the real thing this becomes really useful for modern stuff

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Preview of what I think is now Revision 21 of the drawings. On the right-hand side are the parts where I have completed the revision work, and on the left are the old source images which I have to revise/redraw.

 

Now that I am able to use AutoCAD I have been able to accurately plot the roof arc and make all the ribs and parts for the roof a consistent radius - something which was lacking in the old software.

 

 

72353140_KATramcarRev21WebPreviewApril2022.png.a3378eaf13d22a95c79c8674eaf7ee22.png

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Today I showed the old test-build at the Aus7 Forum (twice-yearly O gauge convention in Sydney) and got quite a bit of interest. I came home and started working on Revision 22 of the drawings. This has been immeasurably easier in AutoCAD than it had been in the previous drawing program. It seems that a lot of drawing programs fall down when it comes to drawing curves and tangents. The significant work done in these drawings is not immediately obvious. It is a re-design of the parts so that the body and roof  are assembled as a series of sub-assemblies which are glued together and the floor level and chassis will separate. The plan is to use four screws to hold the chassis and body together. This way it is possible to access the interior for detailing - maybe some basic seating for passengers. I do not plan to make a lot of interior detail, but just enough suggestions of an interior.

 

 

564521361_KATramcarRevision22.png.23d0d0ad5b0c644412dba804f30d3c3f.png

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  • 8 months later...

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