How Common Were/Are The Small TMDs?

[Ian J.]

Hi all,

 

Quick question: how common were/are the small TMDs that are so frequently modelled these days?

 

TIA

[phil-b259]

14 minutes ago, Ian J. said:

Hi all,

 

Quick question: how common were/are the small TMDs that are so frequently modelled these days?

 

TIA

 

These days the role of a small TMD has been replaced by a 'man in a van' and a road tanker who simply drive to a suitable siding and do day to day servicing / minor repairs / refuelling there. Said siding could be at a freight customers own premiss or a convenient freight yard like Acton or Hoo Junction.

 

The main reason folk like to model a small TMD is is gives the chance to show off the wide variety of liveries from different the operators in existence theses days - in reality such establishments do not exist and in some respects its no different to the 'I model a preserved railway so I can run what I like' mentality.

 

Edited November 25, 2019 by phil-b259

[rob D2]

13 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

These days the role of a small TMD has been replaced by a 'man in a van' and a road tanker who simply drive to a suitable siding and do day to day servicing / minor repairs / refuelling there. Said siding could be at a freight customers own premiss or a convenient freight yard like Acton or Hoo Junction.

 

The main reason folk like to model a small TMD is is gives the chance to show off the wide variety of liveries from different the operators in existence theses days - in reality such establishments do not exist and in some respects its no different to the 'I model a preserved railway so I can run what I like' mentality.

 

That’s very true, it’s a strange that a lot of modern day models look like TMDs fro the 60s stuffed full of different colours - if I was to model similar I’d make it like a “ fleet services “ company so I could have all the rainbow engines...

 

 

back to OP, small TMDs, I think DB peterborough still going ( the Bachmann model ), didcot is , mountsorrel , peak forest ( not a tmd but fuelling point ), Ipswich ( same )

[Alcanman]

Blyth Cambois TMD  was relatively small, but still larger than the one or two road depots favoured by small TMD layout builders.

 

 

[SM42]

I suspect that TMDs as small as those modelled were or are very rare.

 

The attraction as a model is that you don't need all those pesky wagon and coaches and can concentrate on engines which everyone likes, you can still shunt without needing to uncouple, add all the detail bits to each end of the locos, you don't need half the house to build it, a panel van to move it  and sound makes them more attractive still as a concept.

 

Our club "TMD" layout  is ridiculously small for a TMD, and is totally impractical as one,  but it didn't start life as a TMD. It developed into one.

 

Andy

[Fat Controller]

22 minutes ago, Alcanman said:

Blyth Cambois TMD  was relatively small, but still larger than the one or two road depots favoured by small TMD layout builders.

 

 

Many of the 'Modernisation Plan' yards had a small Inspection/ Fuelling Point somewhere on site, even if there was a 'proper' TMD on site, or nearby. Examples include Margam,  Millerhill, Tyne Yard, Carlisle and Tinsley.

[russ p]

Tinsley had its servicing shed near the main sorting sidings while the main depot was next to the reception sidings but at a considerably higher altitude 

Ipswich is good example of a modern fuel pint that is extremely busy but longer term the plan is for a bigger depot 

Shirebrook is a good example of a small depot from days gone, when you see pictures of all the locos packed round the site and the then closed station I always think if this were a model would look unbelievable,  it even has an airfix signalbox 

[Alcanman]

Tees Yard has a small fuelling point. This is how it looked in 2015 when I visited.

[russ p]

7 minutes ago, Alcanman said:

Tees Yard has a small fuelling point. This is how it looked in 2015 when I visited.

 

That's so sad to see. One of the best equipped depots in the country closed and reduced to this!

Even some of the buildings are made from scrap,  looks like something from a third world country 

[Clive Mortimore]

2 hours ago, russ p said:

Tinsley had its servicing shed near the main sorting sidings while the main depot was next to the reception sidings but at a considerably higher altitude 

Ipswich is good example of a modern fuel pint that is extremely busy but longer term the plan is for a bigger depot 

Shirebrook is a good example of a small depot from days gone, when you see pictures of all the locos packed round the site and the then closed station I always think if this were a model would look unbelievable,  it even has an airfix signalbox 

Hi Russ

 

Like this one

One of the south London clubs has/had a 4mm version as well.

It has been on my "one day I might model it" list for ages, but then I like the Midland Railway and ER loco sheds.

 

Tinsley was on my hit list as well. It ain't small.

 

Edited November 26, 2019 by Clive Mortimore

[JeffP]

Really depends what you mean by "small TMD"?

 

In the early 70s,  when my interest in railways was rekindled by a combination of a Merrymaker Mystery Tour from Gainsborough that fetched up in Weston Super Mare,  and our trying to understand the then only partial TOPS numbering,  small depots were numerous.

We thought of a "small" depot as one with either no allocation, or an allocation consisting of only shunters... of which, at that time, there existed classes 01 through to 09, and even class 13. Not many of class 04, and I don't think any ever carried a TOPS number.

Dalescroft published an A5 book listing allocations by depot. It became our bible.

 

Locally, Frodingham had an allocation of half a dozen class 08s, and was three roads, with up to 30 locos stabled at weekends, but we thought of it as small.

King Lynn had a one road fuelling point capable of housing one 03 with runner wagon, or two without, but no allocation. It's  03s were from March.

Ipswich, a lovely atmospheric stabling point, had no allocation, and no shelter, just a fuelling point.

 

Bit long winded, but hth

[Rivercider]

I have memories of small depots, and stabling points, from the 1970s, and 1980s.

To me there is nothing more atmospheric than a number of locos stabled in and around the roofless remains of a former steam shed, something that I have not often seen modelled. Though it does seem to me that at a small depot either it would be almost empty on a weekday, or quite full, (but silent) from Saturday afternoon until Monday morning.

 

Westhouses 9/6/79.

 

 Newton Abbot 21/7/80.

 

Exeter St Davids, 28/7/84.

 

cheers

Edited November 26, 2019 by Rivercider
tidying up.

[Rivercider]

12 minutes ago, JeffP said:

Really depends what you mean by "small TMD"?

 

 

Bit long winded, but hth

Spot on! 

Back in the late 1970s the organised weekend spotting trips took us to depots large and small, as well as stabling points and holding sidings, which might well contain more locos than many of the depots.

At exhibitions I have rarely seen the run-down roofless depot, or weed-strewn stabling point depicted on a layout.

 

cheers

 

[HillsideDepot]

Exeter depot was the inspiration for my first diesel modelling project, becoming Hillside Depot in my version. With 5 stabling roads and a pair of private sidings I'm not sure if it counts as "small". The roofless walls feature, with offices outside. The short siding where the tanks are above inspired to my short siding hidden by the InterCity 47. The road with the 50 above on is similar to the road the model 47 is standing on as it outside the walls and heading off at an angle. The main office buildings were based on Ipswich, but fairly typical of the era, if perhaps lacking in detail differences which would say "Western" which they should be.

 

 

So not a copy, but certainly very much influenced by Exeter. And whilst it is great to see investment in the new depot, it has already lost the charm that inspired me, although I never did finish the water tower beyond the 47 in Rivercider's photo....

[luckymucklebackit]

The fuelling point at Millerhill was a near perfect example of a "model" depot, the track plan with the headshunt and sidings would make a perfect layout, sadly now all gone as it got in the way of the new EMU depot.  

 

 

[Ian J.]

Thanks all.

 

By small, I mean along the lines of the various model TMDs I've seen at shows which have a one loco maintenance shed, and just enough siding space for four or five locos. I suspected, as others have alluded to, that the addition of such a small shed is mostly invention, and that such a small amount of loco space is more likely at a fuelling point that has no maintenance facilities. As such I just wanted to confirm if there were any such small TMDs in the real world.

[brack]

9 hours ago, russ p said:

Even some of the buildings are made from scrap,  looks like something from a third world country

Don't worry, thats a common reaction when folk first encounter middlesbrough.

[russ p]

Middlesbrough has some fantastic buildings and history but unless it has something to do with captain cook the council isn't interested. 

Look at the mess of the transporter bridge they sanctioned 

Horrible stainless steel and glass on the gondola 

[APOLLO]

Springs Branch Wigan is still mostly intact, and still in use maintaining track plant, usually an 08 is in residence. This photo was taken in May last year. £42 million has been spent since then on new electrified sidings etc for the new DMU / EMU facility to the rear of the existing shed and this view has changed quite a lot in the last few months, more new track & OLE. I believe it is now open, must take a look soon.

 

 

These days there are no other locos to be seen in the yard most of the time though, unless delivering / removing loco hauled wagons etc. If your into 08's, track machines, DMU's and new EMU's Springs Branch is worth modelling.

 

However I prefer the old days !!  -- January 1969.

 

 

Around 1965 or so.

 

 

RMweb site re the new Springs Branch - lots of photos & info re the transformation.

 

Brit15

 

[rob D2]

Interesting thread - I think psychologically modern depot builders yearn for more interesting infrastructure from an age gone by, combined with the rainbow locos of today.

 

i can understand that as a modern depot ( see below) isn’t exactly an inspiring piece of architecture is it ? Loco could be housed in BM bargains or a wacky warehouse..

 

 

[Rivercider]

1 hour ago, Ian J. said:

Thanks all.

 

By small, I mean along the lines of the various model TMDs I've seen at shows which have a one loco maintenance shed, and just enough siding space for four or five locos. I suspected, as others have alluded to, that the addition of such a small shed is mostly invention, and that such a small amount of loco space is more likely at a fuelling point that has no maintenance facilities. As such I just wanted to confirm if there were any such small TMDs in the real world.

Swindon diesel depot had just a one road single-ended shed, long enough for about 1 mainline loco, or two class 08s. There were two other sidings, one of which extended through the depot area into what I remember as the 'Brickyard' stores.

 

cheers  

[Foden]

14 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

Interesting thread - I think psychologically modern depot builders yearn for more interesting infrastructure from an age gone by, combined with the rainbow locos of today.

 

i can understand that as a modern depot ( see below) isn’t exactly an inspiring piece of architecture is it ? Loco could be housed in BM bargains or a wacky warehouse..

 

 

Quite.

 

But for some, modelling the mundane is a pleasure in itself. The same rule could apply to plenty of the lifeless concrete slabs born out of the 1960s, yet they have quite a following now among some circles...

 

Just you wait, in 2080 when the latest Higgs bosun powered maglev HS7 trains are stored in their supereco all recycled solar efficient self cleaning glass houses, ‘we’ will be sharing memories and photos of these old oversized garden sheds, reminiscing of how back then things were built right, and trains were ‘proper trains’... etc...

[APOLLO]

1 minute ago, Foden said:

Just you wait, in 2080 when the latest Higgs bosun powered maglev HS7 trains are stored in their supereco all recycled solar efficient self cleaning glass houses, ‘we’ will be sharing memories and photos of these old oversized garden sheds, reminiscing of how back then things were built right, and trains were ‘proper trains’... etc...

 

I think most of us will be pushing up daisies !

 

Brit15

[Foden]

2 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

 

I think most of us will be pushing up daisies !

 

Brit15

At the ripe old age of 94 I’m not too certain I wouldn’t be either.

 

I’d probably still be having to work 4 days a week were I not, so not sure which is the lesser of two evils.

[rob D2]

33 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

 

I think most of us will be pushing up daisies !

 

Brit15

Yep ,

I’ll be deader than flares