What Happened to the JVS12Ts?

[Evertrainz]

With the re-engine of what was to be the Class 30, some 260 Mirrlees 12-cylinder engines were displaced in favor of EE power. Of course given that each engine probably cost a heap the most logical thing to do would be to sell them off.. but where exactly did they end up? It's likely a very tedious and difficult process of locating one of these but what could be some likely fates for the JVS12T engines originally in the Class 30s? Has there ever been an example found in a shed in the middle of field absolute nowhere out of use for 20 years?

[TravisM]

Mirrlees engines are quite popular in the marine environment, so probably headed there to power a fishing boat or something similar.

[keefer]

That's what i read, possibly for trawlers, in the British Rail Fleet Survey series - definitely reconditioned and sold on.

Another example of how successful marine diesel designs suffered when put into a loco (slogging away at their rated output vs constant power/thermal/speed cycling)

Edited November 28, 2019 by keefer

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Scope for backdating a Class 31 maybe?

 

Mike.

[Evertrainz]

I’d read that in the early 50s Brush exported some locomotives for Ceylon Railways fitted with those engines, having already been “proved as a successful marine engine” .. we see how that went on the rails.

 

Regards to backdating I think the only known JVS12T is in the preserved Ceylon diesel loco M1 at a museum, overseas. The loco is static and has likely not been started up since withdrawal. It would be interesting to see if an offer could be made for the engine. A preserved (de-rated ) Class 30 would bring back a part of history that seems to be overlooked.

[Wickham Green]

......... at the expense of someone else' history.

[kevinlms]

2 hours ago, Evertrainz said:

I’d read that in the early 50s Brush exported some locomotives for Ceylon Railways fitted with those engines, having already been “proved as a successful marine engine” .. we see how that went on the rails.

 

Regards to backdating I think the only known JVS12T is in the preserved Ceylon diesel loco M1 at a museum, overseas. The loco is static and has likely not been started up since withdrawal. It would be interesting to see if an offer could be made for the engine. A preserved (de-rated ) Class 30 would bring back a part of history that seems to be overlooked.

Given that the vast majority of people wouldn't know or care, why bother? Apart from sounding different presumably, it isn't something that most people could even see, since it's hidden away inside a body shell.

[russ p]

7 hours ago, Evertrainz said:

With the re-engine of what was to be the Class 30, some 260 Mirrlees 12-cylinder engines were displaced in favor of EE power. Of course given that each engine probably cost a heap the most logical thing to do would be to sell them off.. but where exactly did they end up? It's likely a very tedious and difficult process of locating one of these but what could be some likely fates for the JVS12T engines originally in the Class 30s? Has there ever been an example found in a shed in the middle of field absolute nowhere out of use for 20 years?

 

In a word yes. In the mid 90s a group of us looked at buying a 31 . One of the others in the group was Chris Broadhurst now sadly no longer with us.

Chris was a highly skilled BR engineer and he had found a mirrlees on a farm in Lincolnshire unfortunately our project never really got going due to railway politics etc. But the plan was to put it in the 31.

I never knew exactly where it was and it may still be there other than north east Lincolnshire somewhere. 

Apparently quite a few were used in trawlers out of grimsby 

[Evertrainz]

9 hours ago, Wickham Green said:

......... at the expense of someone else' history.

 

Maybe a timeshare  

 

Of course that is a big factor I didn’t particularly consider. Hopefully the railway preservationists get something going of a working restoration on the M1. 

[45125]

Several ended up in trawlers around the world along with a few going into some of the first oil rig supply vessels in the North Sea. odd ones also got used as standby generator power units.

 

[DCB]

Putting an historically unreliable power unit in a preserved loco doesn't sound that good an idea.    I thought the class 30s suffered cracking of the crankcase around the engine mountings, I may be wrong, but I seem to remember that de rating them didn't make much difference nor did uprating the power units make the problem worse.  I seem to remember at least 1 ran well into the 1750 hp type 3 range. I guess Mirlees couldn't guarantee that replacement crankcases would be any better and it made sense to use the same EE power unit as in the class 37 already proven in service.  I suppose they had so many they couldn't just scrap them like the various small classes type 1 and 2  which were rapidly culled in the 60s, maybe their top speed, 90? saved them.

[Enterprisingwestern]

7 hours ago, DavidCBroad said:

Putting an historically unreliable power unit in a preserved loco doesn't sound that good an idea.    I thought the class 30s suffered cracking of the crankcase around the engine mountings, I may be wrong, but I seem to remember that de rating them didn't make much difference nor did uprating the power units make the problem worse.  I seem to remember at least 1 ran well into the 1750 hp type 3 range. I guess Mirlees couldn't guarantee that replacement crankcases would be any better and it made sense to use the same EE power unit as in the class 37 already proven in service.  I suppose they had so many they couldn't just scrap them like the various small classes type 1 and 2  which were rapidly culled in the 60s, maybe their top speed, 90? saved them.

 

Unreliable in mainline service maybe, but flakier power units are in use in low mileage preservation circles.

 

Mike. 

[russ p]

Obviously not all of them were cracked so as mike said above it should have been fine on a preserved railway 

There is some brief sound footage on a YouTube clip called a city and its railways about Sheffield,  it seems to be a bit throatier than the EE unit

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Talking of Sheffield, thanks Russ!, quite a few STD bus engines  (and others) went to Hong Kong via the Barnsley bus dismantling triangle, so as the lines of communication were already in place, maybe BR shipped some Mirrlees engines out that way?

 

Mike.

[Evertrainz]

14 hours ago, russ p said:

Obviously not all of them were cracked so as mike said above it should have been fine on a preserved railway 

There is some brief sound footage on a YouTube clip called a city and its railways about Sheffield,  it seems to be a bit throatier than the EE unit

 

I do agree, if they are able to get the Crossley HSTV8 running in preservation after all its been through, a capable Mirrlees prime mover will have no issue with the very light requirements of a preserved railway. WSR excluded, a great number of preserved lines rarely demand much from the engine. 

 

FWIW I still think it would be interesting if the original Mirrlees unit could be sourced from somewhere, but I am not a preservation group, nor do I know if it is economic at all. But it still would be great to see a disc-fitted skinhead with the original prime mover, in restored condition. Duck egg blue body stripes as well  

 

I have searched Youtube but wasn’t able to find the video you mention, do you have a link? I did however find this with a brief clip 4:00 minutes in: 

Also the Brush video “Class 31 Construction” has, as you say, deep throaty engine sound in many clips at the end.

 

[stewartingram]

If nothing else, getting the Mirrlees into D5500 would mean that the NRM, in their ethos of "correctness", would then have to paint it in the proper colours instead of that awful blue!

 

Stewart

[russ p]

If there is only one mirrlees left wouldn't like the NRM to get their hands on it. They'd get someone to put it in and do all the work then take it off them and probably never run it ever again! 

[Enterprisingwestern]

1 hour ago, russ p said:

If there is only one mirrlees left wouldn't like the NRM to get their hands on it. They'd get someone to put it in and do all the work then take it off them and probably never run it ever again! 

 

But if the NRM got hold of it they would plough millions into it with no apparent plan or reason, oh hang on it's not a kettle is it?

 

Mike.

[Zomboid]

16 hours ago, Evertrainz said:

WSR excluded, a great number of preserved lines rarely demand much from the engine. 

You might be surprised. A lot of heritage lines have some noticeable hills which demand more than a type 2 to shift their traffic around.

[pheaton]

WSR is the most arduous ive sent 26043 to, about 20 minutes continuous full power from wiliton to CW.....is it the worst? no...Mid hants and swanage demand the most, shorter bursts of full power (about 10 mins each) and then an awful lot of idling. I modified the fan switches on 26043 to reduce the thermal shock.

 

it will be interesting to see how the co-bo fairs when it gets running, or the baby deltic.

 

[Wickham Green]

On 30/11/2019 at 19:24, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

But if the NRM got hold of it they would plough millions into it with no apparent plan or reason, oh hang on it's not a kettle is it?

 

Mike.

If it was a 'kettle' they'd probably de-acquisition it ........

Edited December 2, 2019 by Wickham Green
speeling

[D9020 Nimbus]

Since many diesel engines were of marine origin, I think many "unreliable" engines ended up back in marine use. The main exception being the "V" engines in the class 48s, which were reused in SNCF BB67xxx locos, ISTR.

[Philou]

Looking at the 'Look at Life' film with all its optimism and way forward - what happened after 1959?

 

Did anyone notice that the overhead wiring train was being pushed by a steam loco and at the head of the CWR was another one? A bit ironical I thought.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[Evertrainz]

I've tried to replicate the enginesounds as found in the Brush Traction video, using Mirrlees audio on a testbed. Much, much throatier than the EE replacements  .

 

 

Edited April 1, 2020 by Evertrainz

[DavidB-AU]

Coming in late to this topic. I read years ago that the JVS12Ts developed serious fatigue fractures so were most likely scrapped.

 

The Rhodesian Railways DE4 (also built by Brush) had the same engine and developed the same problems. They were replaced with the EE 8CSVT.

 

Cheers

David