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Wagon kit builds - Mcgeordie Palbrick Wagon


brossard
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About 18 months ago, at the Great British Train Show in Brampton ON (next show is April 2020), I had 3 kits thrust into my hands.  I was taken aback because the donor didn't want anything for them.  So I took them home.  In the intervening time, I had a look in the boxes and did what I always do, even for modern kits, I bought in parts that I felt would be better than those supplied.  These include wheels (those supplied were horrible brass coarse gauge things) . buffers and vacuum pipes.

 

I haven't posted anything until now because I wasn't sure where this project would end, on the layout or in the bin.

 

Here's where I started then:

 

 

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I include this because there might be people with these kits still in the cupboard.  My experience tells me that modellers back then (whenever that was, I'm guessing '80s) had a lot to contend with.

 

 

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This is what falls out the box.  To be fair the etched brass parts are not bad at all.  I found most of the castings to be execrable.  Note the horrid casting that is supposed to represent the end corrugations.  Overscale and wouldn't even fit.

 

Here is some of what I bought in:

 

 

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I thought the use of Slaters sprung W irons would be clever.  They turned out to be problematic.

 

 

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Underframe is made from folded over beams soldered together.  I had a couple of false starts before I sussed it.  Getting the W irons positioned to be square and flat proved to be a nightmare.  Even now, after several tries, the axles are still not perfectly square.  Thankfully there are flat.

 

Note the vacuum pipe.  The vac pipe connections are Slaters.

 

 

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The van body made up.  Being etched brass, this was not difficult.  I used a rivet strip from a 4mm wagon detailing etch for the top and around the vents.  The central rivet strip was supplied.   I glued the doors to white metal gussets.  There are plastic reinforcing strips.  The door latch assy is made from wire and split pins, the casting that was supplied was just too oversize.

 

 

P1010041.JPG.701e1d777a538104da5dcaaff1a0008c.JPG

 

I did find the cast brakes usable but they were short so I used plastic strip to raise them to a better height.  My construction methods tends to include pinning and gluing.  I don't trust butt joints.  In this case the brakes were drilled and brass wire inserted.  I used the same method to fix the brakes to the body.

 

 

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These views show the bulk of the brake gear installed.  Note the connection from the cylinder to vac pipe.  I did use the cast operating crank but discarded most of the rest.  I made the yokes and links.  A rather clever thing with the yokes is that I used tubing and inserted wires to enable me to trial fit everything.

 

 

P1010045.JPG.88f8fa4c1ec268abfe6a697d930567fc.JPG

 

Now with yokes and wheels removed.  Note the support bracket for the yoke operating links.  At this stage I have done the brake levers.  The supplied levers were too long for one side and too short for the other.  I modded them.  I had to make the links for the brake actuation.

 

 

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A different angle showing the brake gear support brackets.  Again pinned and glued.

 

 

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Van body detailed up.  I pinned the doors by drilling through bolts on the hinges all the way through the van side.  Vertical gussets were actually right although I think they are oversize.  Angled gussets had to be trimmed to size.  Tricky to get them to be in line.  Cyano was used.

 

Last major bit of construction was the end corrugations:

 

 

P1010061.JPG.842ced8f9b1a39f1576f116dd5467839.JPG

 

I used Evergreen 0.060" half round.  An exact match to the Slaters van I have (which, by the way, I used extensively to help with details).

 

Now, off to paint.

 

John

 

PS there is another Precision kit of a MCV and an ABS whitemetal open wagon.  More on these later.

 

Edited by brossard
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John,

 

That is scrubbing up nicely. 

 

I was wondering about what you were going to do for the end corrugations. The Evergreen half round is ideal. Very neat. I will have to remember that.

 

You were right about the gussets. They do look over scale.

 

I used some Slaters sprung axleguards on a scratch built wagon that I made about 15 years ago. I found them great. To even up the ride/ adjust the ride height I just filed (gently) the individual fingers that point down on to the axlebox since the axleboxes ride on these. If I over did it then I soldered some fresh fingers in place. I call them sprung - strictly they are just compensated since the axleboxes don't ride on the springs.

 

Excellent work as ever.

 

Ian.  

 

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Thanks Ian, this has been a proper bear of a kit and it did cross my mind to abandon it more than once.  I think it is probably still not good enough for the layout (whenever such a thing ever gets built), but the club has a "museum".  I persevered because kits should be built.

 

John

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The second kit that I was given is a ABS GWR Dia O11 open wagon.

 

These are what fall out of the box (well it's a tube really).  The first thing I noticed is that the buffers are incorrect for the O11 based on pictures I saw.  Should be self contained.  In any event the buffer heads appeared to be drawing pins, so that wouldn't do.

 

 

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Bought in parts including buffers, wheels and Slaters 3 link coupling.

 

 

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Wagon more or less complete.  I would have liked to solder it but my confidence is not there.  Had there been hidden joints I might have done it.  As is I used cyano.  The sub floor is a piece of 1mm plastic card.  When the glue was dry I drilled several 0.9 mm holes and glued brass wire into these.  I think that will provide a strong foundation.

 

Note the Hybar equiment.  The kit didn't include any of this (maybe, as it is 2nd hand, these parts were snaffled) and every picture I saw had this.  Fortunately I found a Parkside set in my spares box.  There are half moulded holes in the ends that are supposed to help position the guide but they were off center.  The guide is glued and pinned.  The bar itself in this photo wasn't good enough so I reverted to the ABS plastic bar mount.

 

 

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Ah the brakes.  This wagon had DC3 brakes and I tried to represent these using drawings, sketches and photos.  Even so I had to redo my work more than once to get things oriented correctly (I hope).

 

Note that I added the bracing on the floor from plastic strip.

 

 

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This is the new and better bar assembly.

 

Wagon is currently primed and I will let it cure overnight.

 

John

 

 

Edited by brossard
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8 hours ago, airnimal said:

John, PECO have G.W.R. buffers in their range  that might be what you are after. 

Mike

 

Thanks Mike.

 

The Invertrain buffers are pretty nice.  I can fix the head diameter if indeed they are wrong.

 

I measure the buffer heads to be scale ~ 15".  I checked another buffer head (not self contained) and that is ~14".

 

John

Edited by brossard
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On 30/11/2019 at 02:04, brossard said:

Thanks Hal.  I didn't notice that the buffer heads were overlarge.  What should the dia. be?  If they are grossly off I can stick them in the Dremel and take off a bit of material with a file.

 

John

I've found an old thread on them here. Some good photos. 

 

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Thanks Hal.  I think I came across that during my travels around the weeb.  I did some checking and decided to reduce the head diameter to 8mm (was 9mm) so that makes it scale 14".  Probably still too big but as the picture says, it was variable.  From a practical point of view, you don't want you buffer heads to be too small.  Small buffers may result in buffer lock.

 

John

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John

 

I have a buffer fetish, head size being a fascination..

 

The RCH head is 1'1" , but looking in the 'A history of GWR goods wagons - Atkins, Beard, Hyde and Tourret', there is a reference:  "In 1910 the GWR itself introduced a new self-contained design of L673 of O11/14 and L682 of V12, characterised by a large 7 1/2" diameter shank fitting into a parallel body with 6 ribs cast on the square base and a 15" head..."

 

There is a good picture on page 84 showing such a head against an RCH 13" head.

 

There we go...

 

Best regards

 

Ernie

 

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1 hour ago, The Bigbee Line said:

I have a buffer fetish, head size being a fascination...

Steady!

 

I do have a thing about the self contained type I must admit.

 

And by way of a warning, I'm about to add safety loops to several wagons prompted by John's frequent mentions: seems these bugbears are catching! 

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Ha ha.  Glad to see my bugbears are catching.  Looking at a picture of a preserved Dia O11, the buffer head seems quite small compared to the wagon next to it.  Maybe, as Ernie points out, the original head was actually correct (I think I have that book).  I think I will leave things as they are.  This buffer head thing seems like a rabbit hole.

 

John

 

Checked my great big book and SC buffers seems to have had heads from 15" to 18".

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  • 3 weeks later...

I got the open wagon done today.

 

P1010082.JPG.caac22e33da0cdd5ecd70d87f7cc2e6d.JPG

 

Inspired by a photo I found.  Being a 9' WB and unfitted wagon, I suppose BR didn't want to spend much effort so they did basic repairs (replacement planks) and applied BR branding.

 

I'm thinking this is how it might look in 1955 in end of life condition.

 

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Overall a good kit with excellent WM castings.

 

John

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  • 3 weeks later...

I think I'm about ready to tackle the MCV.  I created a thread here: 

That discusses some prototype technical aspects, mostly underframe arrangement.

 

Here is what you get when you shake the box:

 

 

P1010087.JPG.cab0183f2d5b0838ab55f4569b137fec.JPG

 

The underframe that produces C channel beams is missing.  I won't be using that and gave it to my friend to help with a kit he is building.

 

I will need to make a new cylinder of 18" diameter.

 

Most of the castings will be discarded.  The buffer housings would have to be drilled and reamed.  I tried this with another set and it was agonising.  Besides these are RCH and the wagon needs Oleo.

 

Perversely, despite the drawing (reproduced in the linked thread) showing 8 shoe clasp brakes, the kit comes with 4 shoe brakes.  So I will be cobbling something up for that.

 

For the chassis I will use the Peco mineral wagon chassis kit:

 

 

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This is very good and saved my life on other kits that I cocked up.  It is a lot easier to build and is sprung.

 

Other items that I bought in:

 

 

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Wheels (obviously), Slaters vacuum pipes, instanter couplings and Oleo buffers.

 

I do have some useful brake parts left over from the BR van discussed above:

 

 

P1010090.JPG.b82ac4adeadc266e308a60650e3c246a.JPG

 

The yokes look OK, but the links seem a tad clunky.  Will have to think about that.

 

John

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The ABS kits are still quite good - I have a few with an LNER open nearly done.  I replaced the floor! Some underframe detail still needed but that's relatively easy. Body was soldered using low melt solder

 

LNER-Open.jpg.4dd8f6930c54a18cca7ea8dc52661e06.jpg

 

Paul R

 

 

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1 hour ago, The Bigbee Line said:

The Oleos are quite long, so choose the prototype to be modelled carefully...

 

I would find a picture of one that fit's your bill and use that.

 

Looking forward to seeing your verdict on the brass body.

 

I'm going off pictures that I have found, mostly Paul's collection.

 

Cheers

 

John

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50 minutes ago, pwr said:

The ABS kits are still quite good - I have a few with an LNER open nearly done.  I replaced the floor! Some underframe detail still needed but that's relatively easy. Body was soldered using low melt solder

 

LNER-Open.jpg.4dd8f6930c54a18cca7ea8dc52661e06.jpg

 

Paul R

 

 

 

Agree Paul, as I think I said.  It's just that my soldering skills where the mess can't be hidden are just not there.

 

John

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2 hours ago, brossard said:

 

 

P1010090.JPG.e003c151cd6182e01c0ddc40a0700000.JPG

 

The yokes look OK, but the links seem a tad clunky.  Will have to think about that.

 

 

That £2.50 CRT etched fret I mentioned the other day has the triangular links on. Btw must be a pain having tiny stuff sent abroad - if you want bits and pieces picking up at an exhibition happy to do so.

Edited by Hal Nail
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Thanks Hal.  I have a way forward for the clasp brakes and am in the process of doing a proof of concept.  I will post a pic when that is done.

 

As for parts shipping here, it is not at all bad.  I will order from Hattons before ordering from the US.  Hattons shipping is cheaper and faster.  It is also rare for me to get dinged for GST (same as your VAT) so I get 20% off.:dance_mini:

 

John

 

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I think I should include my other wagon builds in this thread.  Basic kit builds don't need a blow by blow accounting.  Here's a couple that have come out of my workshop:

 

Parkside GWR Y8 Fruit van.

 

 

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Nothing especially remarkable.  The only change I made was to use Slaters vacuum pipes instead of those horrid whitemetal things supplied by Parkside.  I built this for a mate of mine who, for his own reasons, likes GWR .

 

Next up is Parksides LMS/LNER Plate wagon.

 

 

P1010093.JPG.99d13fc77145f7cc6b7fa2c33c1ad086.JPG

 

 

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There is a picture of one of these in BR ownership with instanter couplings.  Unusual for an unfitted wagon.  Essery also seems to think that the tie bar is unusual.  The picture appears not have black patches for the lettering.

 

Parkside do supply a plastic tie bar but I made mine from brass strip.  I represented the bolts by drilling and soldering some wire in.  I also drilled holes in the W irons and by good fortune got them all to line up with minimal fuss.

 

John

Edited by brossard
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9 hours ago, brossard said:

Essery also seems to think that the tie bar is unusual.

Result! I bought a job lot of wagons needing various repairs one of which was a plate with broken tie bars which I had literally just got out to sort next. Never occured to they might not be needed.

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Always good to check pictures Hal.  Given these things are unfitted, the brakes would mostly be used for parking.  Axlebox spreading is not likely to be an issue.

 

Of 3 pictures in the book, 2 do not have tiebars, 498866 and M496230.  They also have 3 link couplings.  An interesting snippet and saves you a tedious job.

 

I did leave the plastic tiebar on the fruit van which is a tad risky.  If the plastic tiebar breaks it will need to be replaced.  I would use brass strip for that.

 

John

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