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Warpage and Support Structure Problem


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Two different issues with the same print.

 

I'm using PLA, 195 degrees for the extruder, and 50 for the plate.

 

My brim goes down OK, but I soon start to see problems with warping on larger prints.  My current project is basically an I beam ~160mm long and 95 wide, and three out of the four corners are warping.  At the last attempt, I'd left it going, and on coming back, one corner had warped to the extent that it was only 4mm deep, when it should have been 6.2.  I've tried altering the orientation of the print, but the problem always seems to occur in the same corner of the print bed (rather than the same point on the print).

 

My second problem, which is almost certainly unrelated, is that even though I've asked for a support structure to be printed, this isn't happening.  I'm using Wanhao's version of Cura (which came with the printer), and haven't had problems with it before.

 

Adrian

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Hi....Are you printing the beam flat on its side. The old question of print surface and levelling spring to mind as well. I print pla at 200 and 65 bed using a wham bam pei surface. I still occasionally use a bit of glue stick at the end of a beam 250mm long as insurance as well. I print these vertically and the profile I use is on the end of the right hand beam, a little angle to help get the top surface printed.

Creality CR10S is my printer.

I have a 5mm glass plate fixed to 3 of the corners of the hot plate using heatsink tape, so effectivelly use 3 point bed levelling too, the stock bed isnt flat and moves as it heats up. 

BEAM 1.jpg

Edited by amandalee
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3 minutes ago, amandalee said:

Hi....Are you printing the beam flat on its side. The old question of print surface and levelling spring to mind as well. I print pla at 200 and 65 bed using a wham bam pei surface. I still occasionally use a bit of glue stick at the end of a beam 250mm long as insurance as well. I print these vertically and the profile I use is on the end of the right hand beam, a little angle to help get the top surface printed.

Creality CR10S is my printer.

BEAM 1.jpg

 

Thanks.  Those are some good looking prints.

 

Yes, I'm printing on the side, maximum surface contact.

 

Printing is done on to blue tape which gives good adhesion for the brim (the problem seems to be brim/print adhesion) rather than the brim.  The clearance between the extruder head is set up before each print, so unless that is changing during the print, it should be OK.

 

I'll try changing the temperatures and see what happens.

 

Adrian

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Must admit I use 210 and 60 but have found warping usually caused by the first layer not being well enough adhered to the base. I do set up the bed by the book but then adjust while the brim is printing to make sure the job is firmly adhered. Adjusting by quarter turns on the base screws until the brim is translucent has worked for me. With this method, I have stopped using any adhesive on the bed.

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4 minutes ago, JimFin said:

Must admit I use 210 and 60 but have found warping usually caused by the first layer not being well enough adhered to the base. I do set up the bed by the book but then adjust while the brim is printing to make sure the job is firmly adhered. Adjusting by quarter turns on the base screws until the brim is translucent has worked for me. With this method, I have stopped using any adhesive on the bed.

 

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by the brim being translucent.

 

Adrian

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What brand of PLA are you using? I typically print at 205 - 210 C and about 60 C on the bed.

 

I would recommend getting the latest version of Cura, I believe its 4.4.0 from Ultimaker's website. It likely has a lot of improvements over what you are using.

 

Are you sure your bed is level? Head over to YouTube and search for 'Filament Friday'. The guy has an Ender 3 leveling video on his channel that shows how to level the bed, and provides an STL file (prints a bunch of squares). Use that and make sure the first player is going down properly. Basically as it prints the square run your finger over the print and it shouldn't come off. This is a great test to figure out if your bed surface is warped too. I have a Creality CR-10 S5 that is 500x500mm, prints fine in the center but the outer edges don't adhere right. I ended up having to put material between the bed and the glass around the edge to adjust it.

 

If you're lucky, the bed is likely just not level. If you're unlucky, the bed could be warped. You could try printing without heating the bed, PLA doesn't need heat. If your bed is glass, you'll need to put some painters tape across the surface for it to adhere. 

 

The problem you are having is with your first layer. Another option might be to try printing with a raft.

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7 hours ago, oorail said:

What brand of PLA are you using? I typically print at 205 - 210 C and about 60 C on the bed.

 

I would recommend getting the latest version of Cura, I believe its 4.4.0 from Ultimaker's website. It likely has a lot of improvements over what you are using.

 

Are you sure your bed is level? Head over to YouTube and search for 'Filament Friday'. The guy has an Ender 3 leveling video on his channel that shows how to level the bed, and provides an STL file (prints a bunch of squares). Use that and make sure the first player is going down properly. Basically as it prints the square run your finger over the print and it shouldn't come off. This is a great test to figure out if your bed surface is warped too. I have a Creality CR-10 S5 that is 500x500mm, prints fine in the center but the outer edges don't adhere right. I ended up having to put material between the bed and the glass around the edge to adjust it.

 

If you're lucky, the bed is likely just not level. If you're unlucky, the bed could be warped. You could try printing without heating the bed, PLA doesn't need heat. If your bed is glass, you'll need to put some painters tape across the surface for it to adhere. 

 

The problem you are having is with your first layer. Another option might be to try printing with a raft.

 

Thanks for the various suggestions.

 

My current filament is "Renkforce", which I sourced from Rapid Components.

 

I always level the bed before starting a print (I'm surprised by how much it can change between prints), but I'm not entirely convinced that the bed isn't warped (sometimes it looks as though the middle is lower, other times it doesn't).

 

Further experiments are currently on hold as the last time I tried to use the printer, one of the leads that is used to heat the bed broke off (the third time it has happened), and my current soldering iron isn't powerful enough to remake the connection.  As the bed moves in the Y plane, it flexes the wire and eventually the joint suffers from fatigue.

 

Adrian

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On 02/12/2019 at 13:00, oorail said:

What brand of PLA are you using? I typically print at 205 - 210 C and about 60 C on the bed.

 

I would recommend getting the latest version of Cura, I believe its 4.4.0 from Ultimaker's website. It likely has a lot of improvements over what you are using.

 

Are you sure your bed is level? Head over to YouTube and search for 'Filament Friday'. The guy has an Ender 3 leveling video on his channel that shows how to level the bed, and provides an STL file (prints a bunch of squares). Use that and make sure the first player is going down properly. Basically as it prints the square run your finger over the print and it shouldn't come off. This is a great test to figure out if your bed surface is warped too. I have a Creality CR-10 S5 that is 500x500mm, prints fine in the center but the outer edges don't adhere right. I ended up having to put material between the bed and the glass around the edge to adjust it.

 

If you're lucky, the bed is likely just not level. If you're unlucky, the bed could be warped. You could try printing without heating the bed, PLA doesn't need heat. If your bed is glass, you'll need to put some painters tape across the surface for it to adhere. 

 

The problem you are having is with your first layer. Another option might be to try printing with a raft.

 

I've had another session with the printer, with the bed temperature turned off and the extruder running at 200 degrees.  Initial impressions were favourable, but they were on a small print.  Coming back to my support beam, not good.

 

P1010001.JPG.d85bac8af31706b51eb291fe43a2d1bf.JPG

 

The lower part appears to have printed OK (albeit with a bit of warping on the LHS), but as can be seen, the upper part has several cracks in it.  When trying to remove it from the plate, the print split completely just above the lower webs.  For reference, the webs are 2mm deep, the horizontal section 15mm deep.

 

Any suggestions on how to get something usable would be most welcome.

 

Adrian

 

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