The new V2 ep

[Chas Levin]

On 25/01/2022 at 19:16, 31A said:

 

I have!

 

Not for the faint hearted, or not the way I did it anyway.

 

Basically, I cut two plates from 10 thou sheet brass approximately 25mm x 9mm, with holes drilled in two corners to fit beneath the retaining screws under the cab, and under the front of the tender.  Then made a drawbar from a piece of brass etch scrap; I think it was a bit thicker than 10 thou, but not important.  Made holes in the plates for pivot bolts and soldered 10 BA nuts above these holes.  The pivot bolts are 10 BA bolts with a washer and a slice of tube soldered to them.  So far so good.

 

 

 

The drag beam beneath the cab has a slot in it which the drawbar of the real loco would pass through and I hoped to use this for the new drawbar.  Obviously I had to remove the close coupling system.  The one on the tender was easy enough (see @Dominion pictures above) but the one under the cab has a cover plate which is attached by screws which are under the can floor.  I couldn't reach these screws so I demolished the close coupling drawbar with Xuron cutters!  If the drawbar is to pass through the slot in the drag beam, the pivot bolts have to be on the top side of the plates and hence unreachable once everything is in place.  I had to cut a notch in the tender drag beam to accommodate the new drawbar.

 

I did some running trials at this point.  Initially all good, but there was binding on the sharpest curves.  I found the cab doors (on the tender) were fouling the edges of the cab, so I took about 1mm off their edges.  It also seemed that the fall plate was binding on the handbrake and water scoop stanchions on the tender footplate, so I trimmed some metal off the fall plate.  But mainly the binding was because the drawbar needed to swing more than I'd expected and slot in the loco drag beam was too small, so I had to extend it to either side, in fact into the other slots which exist on either side of it.

 

If I hadn't tried to fit the drawbar through this slot, but underneath the drag beams (as is often the case with model locos) things would have been a lot easier!

 

I wanted to keep the tender pickups but didn't want to risk soldering in that area of the tender, so I ran new wires from the PCB on the loco and terminated them in slams washers.  These are then clamped to the tender pickups by small self tapping screws, tapped into holes drilled through them into the plastic tender floor.  They have to be small as they mustn't be able to cause a short circuit by coming into contact with the weight block above the floor!  One is painted red to identify which pickup it goes to.  These wires have to pass from the PCB beneath the cab floor by passing through the space previously occupied by the close coupling arm, so you have to get this out somehow, by brute force and ignorance!  The wires then pass through the same slot in the loco drag beam as the drawbar.

 

 

 

Anyway after all that, all is now well.  As well as getting rid of the plastic lump, I was able to reduce the gap between loco and tender to 4mm, which is normal on my layout and will go round the sharpest curves (Peco Code 75 Double Slips).  If I was to do it again I would probably fit the drawbar lower down, which would save a lot of bother.  And also do it before I'd fitted the additional bits from the bits bag!

 

 

 

 

 

Hello Steve, after an embarrassingly long time - during which other things have intervened - I took time out this weekend to revisit my V2's problems on R2 curves and tried out the suggestion from 34theletterbetweenB&D of running the loco without the tender... which completely cures the problem: excellent news! 🤩

 

However, when I read back through this thread to find details of how to replace Bachmann's sprung drawbar assembly, I found the photos from your post of January 2022 missing, presumably in the Great RMWeb Outtage.

 

I wondered if by any chance you had kept them in a file somewhere and, if so, if you would mind very much replacing them in that post, or making a new post, if that's easier? I'm sure there would be other people who would also find it very useful, as it doesn't look like anyone else has done this, or at any rate no-one else has posted photos.

 

No problem if not, of course - no-one expects the Spanish Image-quisition (ouch, sorry, couldn't resist!) - just thought I'd ask.

Edited October 7, 2023 by Chas Levin

[31A]

35 minutes ago, Chas Levin said:

 

Hello Steve, after an embarrassingly long time - during which other things have intervened - I took time out this weekend to revisit my V2's problems on R2 curves and tried out the suggestion from 34theletterbetweenB&D of running the loco without the tender... which completely cures the problem: excellent news! 🤩

 

However, when I read back through this thread to find details of how to replace Bachmann's sprung drawbar assembly, I found the photos from your post of January 2022 missing, presumably in the Great RMWeb Outtage.

 

I wondered if by any chance you had kept them in a file somewhere and, if so, if you would mind very much replacing them in that post, or making a new post, if that's easier? I'm sure there would be other people who would also find it very useful, as it doesn't look like anyone else has done this, or at any rate no-one else has posted photos.

 

No problem if not, of course - no-one expects the Spanish Image-quisition (ouch, sorry, couldn't resist!) - just thought I'd ask.

 

Hi Chas, thank you for asking!  I didn't realise they had been posted before the 'crash'; time flies! 

 

Anyway, here goes.

 

 

 

Basically, my modification consists of brass plates that fit beneath the cab and the front of the tender, to which a brass drawbar is pivoted.  The brass plates are attached using the self tapping screws that are already there as part of the loco & tender body attachments.  It's fairly straightforward but I seem to recall I had to cut away (by experiment) quite a bit of plastic from the loco & tender drag beams (below the cab and tender front) to allow the loco to go round my curves; making the drawbar thinner might have been easier!

 

As I wanted to keep current collection from the tender, I ran new wires from the motor to the tender; I seem to remember it was quite difficult to find a way for these out through the firebox and cab, and they ended up sandwiched somehow between the mouldings under the cab floor.  I terminated them in brass washers screwed into the existing tender pick ups with self tapping screws.  On reflection it might have been neater to have routed them above the brass plate on the tender rather than beneath it:

 

 

This modification is maybe not for the faint hearted, given the cost of the model, but it means the loco and tender can be coupled as closely as you like by making the new drawbar to suit depending on the radius of curve you expect the loco to negotiate - in my case they ended up closer together than they originally were, but for this to work I also had to shorten the cab doors on the tender a bit.  It also solves the 'crabbing' issue (although the other suggested solutions were simpler), and eliminates the big lump of plastic between the loco and tender.

 

 

[Chas Levin]

@31A - Steve, thank you so much, immensely helpful! A picture speaks a thousand words, as they say - I'd read and re-read your original post and had great difficulty visualising exactly what you'd done, but the pictures make it very clear.

 

Very keen to do this mod now, as I haven't really been able to run the loco because of the curves problem.

Edited October 7, 2023 by Chas Levin

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

On 07/10/2023 at 17:04, Chas Levin said:

guess what? It is that blinking fancy drawbar gadget that's causing the binding/crabbing!!

Please do us all a favour and e-mail your finding to Bachmann, as I have already done. If the 1* in 100 of us that actually expect the models to work don't make the brand management aware of the scale of their cockups, we'll be saddled with this nonsense forever more.

 

*Not to suggest that of those active here so few actually operate their models, it's the silent majority 'out there' that results in under-reporting of problems.

Edited October 9, 2023 by 34theletterbetweenB&D
to better explain

[Chas Levin]

1 hour ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Please do us all a favour and e-mail your finding to Bachmann, as I have already done. If the 1* in 100 of us that actually expect the models to work don't make the brand management aware of the scale of their cockups, we'll be saddled with this nonsense forever more.

 

*Not to suggest that of those active here so few actually operate their models, it's the silent majority 'out there' that results in under-reporting of problems.

Good idea - will do!

[Chas Levin]

On 09/10/2023 at 12:06, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Please do us all a favour and e-mail your finding to Bachmann, as I have already done. If the 1* in 100 of us that actually expect the models to work don't make the brand management aware of the scale of their cockups, we'll be saddled with this nonsense forever more.

 

*Not to suggest that of those active here so few actually operate their models, it's the silent majority 'out there' that results in under-reporting of problems.

Hello again, I emailed and as others have found, I received a very polite rpely to the effect that my message would be passed on to the R&D team... fingers crossed!!

[No Decorum]

7 minutes ago, Obsidian Quarry said:

Still breaks my heart how these turned out. I was so exited at the thought of new tooled V2s, and even sold my old tooled one in preparation.

And then it ends up badly designed, with blatant compromises that feel unnecessary, and a very poorly done part of the livery that is way too obvious to be hidden with weathering.

I have a similar reaction for a different reason. After running it in and fitting all its bits and pieces, I noticed that the pin in the expansion link was missing. I returned it for repair but each time it came back, more was broken. An attempt had been made to glue the broken bits back together but it was rather amateurish. All the more galling as Bachmann had done a super job of repairing an older loco for me. I glare at it from time to time trying to decide what to do. At least I still have my old ones.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

17 minutes ago, Obsidian Quarry said:

Still breaks my heart how these turned out...

Have you actually seen - and ideally run - one?

 

Yes, there's a clumsy aspect relating to LNER liveried models, and the camming loco to tender coupling is a foul up.

 

Overall it looks like a V2, and is the best yet available.

Mechanism performance is very good, ample traction for most owners, and space for more weight.

A flanged wheelset is provided to replace the unflanged trailing truck wheelset, and there's a neat sprung arrangement to take it, and it will negotiate down to 24" radius in this condition.

Minor modifications mitigate or eliminate the foul ups.

It looks lovely romping past with forty plus fitted wagon freights.

 

That's my perspective as someone who is a model railway operator above all else, with an ECML focus. There's items that are a match for my interest that I have declined over the years: Bachmann Midland van, off-scale, Heljan original 47, shape error, Hornby's Gresley coaches, shape error, Hornby class 30, shape error, Accurascale Deltic, visible dimensional error; but none of this is heart breaking, something better will come along, or possibly a fix for the last of these...

[MikeParkin65]

26 minutes ago, Obsidian Quarry said:

I have seen one, but not run one. I have no means to without buying one. Yes the overall look is very good, but the livery issue on the LNER ones is shocking and to me ruins it.

I only learned about the tender connection issue today when catching up with this thread, and it just adds another reason for me to not buy one as they stand.

If Bachmann fix them in the future, then fantastic. But I'm not holding my breath.

Unless you are looking for an excuse not to buy one dont be cutting your nose to spite your face - nothing is perfect but this is as good a V2 as we are going to be able to buy ready to run for a long time. Currently available at very good prices if you shop around (check out TMC) and as @34theletterbetweenB&Dsays above its a superb layout loco. Certainly aren't going to get cheaper even in the unlikely event of Bachmann modifying the tooling.

[Fair Oak Junction]

Can someone advise me on the size of the nameplates on the Green Arrow models please?

[Dominion]

I get 14.5 mm measured with a ruler, not callipers. Do you need it more accurately ? 

[Fair Oak Junction]

16 minutes ago, Dominion said:

I get 14.5 mm measured with a ruler, not callipers. Do you need it more accurately ? 

 

No, that's perfect thank you. Just trying to make sure I order the right size from Fox out of the two options 👍

[45568]

10 hours ago, Obsidian Quarry said:

 

No, that's perfect thank you. Just trying to make sure I order the right size from Fox out of the two options 👍

I ordered the 'small' plate earlier this year, it is fine and looks correct.

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

[G-BOAF]

On 15/11/2023 at 16:02, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Have you actually seen - and ideally run - one?

 

Yes, there's a clumsy aspect relating to LNER liveried models, and the camming loco to tender coupling is a foul up.

 

Overall it looks like a V2, and is the best yet available.

Mechanism performance is very good, ample traction for most owners, and space for more weight.

A flanged wheelset is provided to replace the unflanged trailing truck wheelset, and there's a neat sprung arrangement to take it, and it will negotiate down to 24" radius in this condition.

Minor modifications mitigate or eliminate the foul ups.

It looks lovely romping past with forty plus fitted wagon freights.

 

That's my perspective as someone who is a model railway operator above all else, with an ECML focus. There's items that are a match for my interest that I have declined over the years: Bachmann Midland van, off-scale, Heljan original 47, shape error, Hornby's Gresley coaches, shape error, Hornby class 30, shape error, Accurascale Deltic, visible dimensional error; but none of this is heart breaking, something better will come along, or possibly a fix for the last of these...

O/t but what is the dimensional error with the deltic? Been following that thread closely and not seen anything mentioned!

 

As regards the V2 will be interesting to see what improvements in a futire batch and if any retrofit parts are made available

[Fair Oak Junction]

9 hours ago, 45568 said:

I ordered the 'small' plate earlier this year, it is fine and looks correct.

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

 

Excellent, thank you for confirming 👍

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

4 hours ago, G-BOAF said:

O/t but what is the dimensional error with the deltic? Been following that thread closely and not seen anything mentioned!

It's on pages 5 and 6 of the thread for that item.

[MikeParkin65]

I'm sure this will have been discussed in the 21 previous pages but having the opportunity to stare at my BR Green 60847 from my desk today I find myself wondering if the orange and black lining over the firebox is prototypical. A not exhaustive flick through various phot books this lunchtime has yet to unearth a clear picture of any green ex LNER loco lined like this - does anyone know if it was a practice at a particular works for example?

[davidw]

1 hour ago, MikeParkin65 said:

I'm sure this will have been discussed in the 21 previous pages but having the opportunity to stare at my BR Green 60847 from my desk today I find myself wondering if the orange and black lining over the firebox is prototypical. A not exhaustive flick through various phot books this lunchtime has yet to unearth a clear picture of any green ex LNER loco lined like this - does anyone know if it was a practice at a particular works for example?

Interesting  question and one that I have pondered over. I think that the painting specifications say as you suggest that the firebox should be unlined. But some examples were lined as they went through the shops. Clear pictures are hard to find though there  are some colour photos in Gresley's V2s by Peter Tuffrey showing both lined and unlined. I've not found any  of 60847 online or elsewhere. I've renaumbered mine and the lining will definitely be going when my examples are weathered.  Hope this helps.

[G-BOAF]

19 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said:

I'm sure this will have been discussed in the 21 previous pages but having the opportunity to stare at my BR Green 60847 from my desk today I find myself wondering if the orange and black lining over the firebox is prototypical. A not exhaustive flick through various phot books this lunchtime has yet to unearth a clear picture of any green ex LNER loco lined like this - does anyone know if it was a practice at a particular works for example?

Seems it WAS prototypical for 60847 (though potentially not common for the class as a whole), firebox definitely lined in this pic

 

[MikeParkin65]

3 hours ago, G-BOAF said:

Seems it WAS prototypical for 60847 (though potentially not common for the class as a whole), firebox definitely lined in this pic

 

Really useful - thanks

[davidw]

10 hours ago, G-BOAF said:

Seems it WAS prototypical for 60847 (though potentially not common for the class as a whole), firebox definitely lined in this pic

 

Touche... id forgotten about Bachmann 's use of this pic!