The new V2 ep

[melmerby]

49 minutes ago, Chamby said:

why have Bachmann reverted to having a plastic section in the middle of the axle???  I can only see this giving reliability problems in years to come... 

 

They haven't reverted to it, they've been using it for years.

 

[micklner]

31 minutes ago, melmerby said:

They haven't reverted to it, they've been using it for years.

 

Missing on the old V2 Tender because it never picked up current from the Tender  , hence the "solid?" plastic centres to the axles. Hopefully better quality then the old split chassis plastic axle muffs, that failed after a short period of use.

[melmerby]

3 hours ago, micklner said:

Missing on the old V2 Tender because it never picked up current from the Tender

But several more recent models do have split axles for tender pickups and IIRC some coach bogies also have split axle wheelsets, so nothing new for Bachmannland.

 

Some manufacturers have been trying split axles so they can pick up frictionless through the wheelsets by having the bearings wired up.

[Chamby]

13 hours ago, melmerby said:

They haven't reverted to it, they've been using it for years.

 

 

Point taken, Melmerby.   I was referring specifically to the changes made to the V2 model and expressing a personal opinion about perceived longevity: the new models run well for now, in their brand new condition.  

 

My comment was solely based on my experience of plastic axles on older models, which deteriorated over time.  

 

Time will tell. 

[melmerby]

7 hours ago, Chamby said:

 

Point taken, Melmerby.   I was referring specifically to the changes made to the V2 model and expressing a personal opinion about perceived longevity: the new models run well for now, in their brand new condition.  

 

My comment was solely based on my experience of plastic axles on older models, which deteriorated over time.  

 

Time will tell. 

Depends on the plastic, I assume and usage.

Mainline & early Bachmann locos had something that tended to split with age, however I haven't had any split on pre Blue Riband Bachmann or Mainline wagons*.

As the loco plastic axle parts came into contact with lubricant and the wagon's didn't, could that be a possible cause?

 

*They do however have a tendency to have non concentric wheelsets more often than solid axle ones

[Chamby]

Last night I had a further play around with my new V2, to see how much the locomotive could pull before the crabbing tender effect kicks in.  Using Bachmann’s Thompson coaches, there was no noticeable crabbing with a rake of up to four coaches, but adding a fifth coach introduced the full crabbing effect.

 

The physics of this, is that the weight of the train overcomes the strength of springing between the loco and tender, resulting in the coupling opening up and therefore moving to an offset position.  Surely, this is something that should have been picked up during development and testing of a product with an RRP over £300?

[No Decorum]

The crabbing is very concerning and I hope Bachmann returns to the adjustable drawbar arrangement on future models. I will admit, though, that two of my more recent models, including the Caley, have been faultily assembled. Poor QC.

 

I’ve returned to assembling mine and noticed something which I don’t think has been mentioned before. The guardirons supplied to be fixed to the body are to be glued over what the instructions say are two body fixing screws. Following Bachmann’s suggestion of using a PVA glue might be a cure but it seems very odd to have to break a glue bond to get inside a loco. In any case, why has Bachmann decided that the body needs to be fixed on with three screws at the front instead of the usual one?

[gr.king]

Do the extra screws at the front make one suspect that instability of the plastic moulding has either been found on pre-production samples, or is being anticipated, and that the screws are there to stop the model from "turning its nose up"?

[G-BOAF]

On 02/01/2022 at 18:08, Chamby said:

I do not profess to be an expert about the details of the V2, so will refrain from adding comment to what has been posted already about this model.  As a purchaser I thought I'd post some of my own observations here, and show a comparison with Bachmann's previous model, which I also own.

 

I have purchased 60845 in BR lined black livery with the early crest, this particular locomotive spent 18 months allocated to Woodford Halse between Spring 1950 and Autumn 1951 - so apart from the shed code used on Bachmann;'s model, it is an ideal model to run on my Eastern Region (ex-Great Central) layout.  

 

First impressions are very favourable, it is crisply modelled and runs very smoothly straight out of the box.  As Bachmann's DCC sound version of 60845, first impressions of the sound file are good, perhaps not quite up there with the best but perfectly acceptable, although some adjustment of the relevant CV's will be required to properly synchronise the 'chuffs' to the wheel rotation.  Whistle sounds are crisp and bright, albeit unusually operated using F4 and F8.

 

A couple of issues emerged during running in.  Firstly, the model comes fitted with flangeless wheels in the 'trailing bogie' (Cartazzi truck), hanging low enough to run on the rail surface.  Surprise surprise, these bridge the insulation gaps on Peco Code 75 Bullhead turnouts, consistently shorting out and stalling the loco.  Fortunately the supplied replacement 'flanged' wheels were fitted and fixed this problem for me, though modellers with R2 curves on their layout will also find this fix problematic as the flanged wheels require a minimum R3 (505mm).  The second issue I'll come to later.

 

Some comparison pictures then, between Bachmann's new V2 and the model that it replaced:  Firstly looking at their faces: 4771 is the 'old' model on the left in LNER green, 60845 the new one in BR lined black.  60845 has yet to have its front coupling hook and vacuum pipe added, as it is still undergoing acceptance trials following its receipt from Kernow Models!  

 

The re-tooling here is obvious, much crisper mouldings, much greater detail and generally showing the level of refinement that you'd expect in 2021.  As I said before, I won't comment on its accuracy as a model, just those points that are obvious to the 'average' purchaser.  The only obvious thing to me on the new model is the minor loss of crispness in the rivet detail on the top of the smokebox, presumably a consequence of the moulding process.

 

 

 

A similar level of detailing is observed around the cab and tender area.  The tender itself is substantially different, although it bears a 'family resemblance' the detail differences are many and obvious.  To my mind the coal load is poorly modelled, though this plastic component falls out easily and will be replaced with the real stuff as and when the loco passes its acceptance trials:

 

 

 

I also thought it worth illustrating the revised arrangement between the tender and loco underneath - new model on the left (below).  This is very different - the Cartazzi (trailing bogie) arrangement is simply a fixed axle with a lot of play, it is lightly sprung and goes round R3 curves (20" radius).  On the right, the old 'swivelling' arrangement.  The tender wheels clearly have been remodelled to allow electrical pick-up, though why have Bachmann reverted to having a plastic section in the middle of the axle???  I can only see this giving reliability problems in years to come...  The electrical connection between the locomotive and tender is very different to the little white 4-pin plug we have become accustomed to.  The arrangement used here is large and unwieldy but mostly hidden from the normal layout viewing angle.  Its design will be familiar to modellers who also have the 'Blue Pullman'.  Bachmann have also supplemented this with the same pivoting arrangement that they use on bogie coaches, that opens up the gap between loco and tender on corners... :

 

 

That rigid connector and its pivoting arrangement leads me to my main issue with this model, from a running perspective.  As a light engine, the model runs very freely and well: first impressions were excellent and the model traversed the entirety of my layout without issue.  However after the obligatory 30 minutes running in, I put the new V2 on the front of a train, a freight totalling 34 axles of RTR stock (5x 4-axle bogie bolster wagons and 7x 2-axle open wagons).  This relatively modest load pulls on the tender to such an extent that the coupling between the tender and loco becomes stretched even on straight track, and consequently gets swung off-centre as if the loco is traversing a curve.  On straight track, this results in the tender 'crabbing' behind the loco, offset from centre about 4-5mm:  this effect is very obvious, occurs with both examples of the new V2 that I have seen, and occurs every time the train travels on a straight section of track after traversing a reverse curve.  I'm still scratching my head over how to fix this... any ideas?

 

 

Apart from that, it is a lovely model, runs well and it looks great in the BR black livery.  But I'm definitely scratching my head about what I can do to fix the dodgy tender coupling....

 

 

 

That crabbing looks very very odd, and I would suggest it is a fault and you send it back to Bachmann for investigation.

What is weird is that Bachmann's CCM fitted coaches (e.g.g Mk1s) are fine even in long rakes (I've had a rake of 13 running).

I sense that they have tried to re-invent the wheel. for ages we have been relatively happy with a two-position connection - one for running, and one for display/gentle curves. 

Putting un unnecessarily complex CCM in makes no sense.

[melmerby]

This crabbing IMHO seems to be an unfortunate side effect of a sprung CCU under load. (I assume it is sprung)

I have notice a similar effect on some Hornby coaches, where a large rake will cause problems near the front where the greatest load is.

Whilst testing my new Hornby W1, I started with 4 Collett suburbans without a problem, I added 6 more bogie vehicles (without CCUs) and the leading Collett coach started derailing after coming out of a curve, due to the offset CCU.

Swap the coaches so the non CCU vehicles were first - no problem.

Added two more behing the Colletts and the problem re-arose, although not as bad as with 6 behind.

 

 

[MikeParkin65]

1 hour ago, G-BOAF said:

 

 

I sense that they have tried to re-invent the wheel. for ages we have been relatively happy with a two-position connection - one for running, and one for display/gentle curves. 

Putting un unnecessarily complex CCM in makes no sense.

Agree. Would also add the ugly power connection between the loco and tender - especially because all it is providing is the link for the tender pick ups. The very best tender coupling in my opinion is the infinitely adjustable sliding post as used on the G2's and the Compounds (maybe other but thats the two I have).

 

Surprised these crabbing problems haven't been picked up in reviews - has Sams Trains reviewed one yet (anyone been brave enough to look?)? 

[melmerby]

1 minute ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Agree. Would also add the ugly power connection between the loco and tender - especially because all it is providing is the link for the tender pick ups. The very best tender coupling in my opinion is the infinitely adjustable sliding post as used on the G2's and the Compounds (maybe other but thats the two I have).

 

Surprised these crabbing problems haven't been picked up in reviews - has Sams Trains reviewed one yet (anyone been brave enough to look?)? 

Another thumbs up for that.

I think the early GWR tender produced for the "City" 4-4-0 also has it, probably others as well.

 

It should be possible to have a link with 4 electrical connections plus a sliding mounting.

[Guardian]

On 02/01/2022 at 19:08, Chamby said:

On straight track, this results in the tender 'crabbing' behind the loco, offset from centre about 4-5mm:  this effect is very obvious, occurs with both examples of the new V2 that I have seen, and occurs every time the train travels on a straight section of track after traversing a reverse curve.  I'm still scratching my head over how to fix this... any ideas?

 

 

Good morning!

 

Such crabbing appears to be either a result of too weak springs which are not able to keep the articulated bars in position once the load increases. This is known from some Märklin models and seems to occur from time to time.

 

Another reason may be the construction of the articulated bar in the loco. May be it is not wide enough but I this is not visible from the pictures.

 

I wonder why Bachmann creates such construction deficiencies as they show e.g. on Liliput steam loco models how an articulated loco-tender connection works properly and reliable.

 

Best,

Mark

[benbrown]

Morning all.

Received my rails edition of "Kings own Yorkshire light infantry" . Weekend spent adding all the extra details and etched name plates. I've darked the valve gear down with a humbrol black wash as a starting point. It says the cab doors are for display purposes but fitting them at a 45 degree angle (approx) the loco runs through 4th radius fine and hornbys standard express points. Just need some paint for the front cylinder blast pipes 

Regards Ben

Edited January 16, 2022 by benbrown
Grammer

[Ollie K]

2 hours ago, benbrown said:

Morning all.

Received my rails edition of "Kings own Yorkshire light infantry" . Weekend spent adding all the extra details and etched name plates. I've darked the valve gear down with a humbrol black wash as a starting point. It says the cab doors are for display purposes but fitting them at a 45 degree angle (approx) the loco runs through 4th radius fine and hornbys standard express points. Just need some paint for the front cylinder blast pipes 

Regards Ben

Useful post thanks Ben. And the front pony wheels don’t foul the drain cocks on 4th radius curves either?

[benbrown]

1 hour ago, OliverBytham said:

Useful post thanks Ben. And the front pony wheels don’t foul the drain cocks on 4th radius curves either?

No they don't foul the front pony wheels I've since tried on 3rd at slow speeds where there is no apparent  touching either, that I can see 

[45568]

12 hours ago, benbrown said:

Morning all.

Received my rails edition of "Kings own Yorkshire light infantry" . Weekend spent adding all the extra details and etched name plates. I've darked the valve gear down with a humbrol black wash as a starting point. It says the cab doors are for display purposes but fitting them at a 45 degree angle (approx) the loco runs through 4th radius fine and hornbys standard express points. Just need some paint for the front cylinder blast pipes 

Regards Ben

Did you see any of the 'crabbing' issue mentioned above Ben, and are the tender wheels disc or spoked? I'm still in two minds regarding a BR green one.

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

[The Black Hat]

Seen the photos used on Rails of Sheffield and its looking like the engine barely has any smokebox door straps across the door. I know its just the photos they have used and that it could be the angle or just some that been done, but has anyone else got more photos of the front. 

[davidw]

30 minutes ago, The Black Hat said:

Seen the photos used on Rails of Sheffield and its looking like the engine barely has any smokebox door straps across the door. I know its just the photos they have used and that it could be the angle or just some that been done, but has anyone else got more photos of the front. 

Tbh check out the one that Tim Easter worked on earlier in this thread. The smoke box face looked fine.

[Eddie the dog]

Hi Peter,

Regarding the ‘crabbing’ , I have the early BR running on 3rd radius and have had no issues if that helps ?

[The Black Hat]

11 hours ago, davidw said:

Tbh check out the one that Tim Easter worked on earlier in this thread. The smoke box face looked fine.

Well I have seen some that did look fine but then saw these and was quite taken aback by the photos that were taken there hence asking for more and others opinions to check. Given the ones used by Rails its drawn my attention to it and think that it stands out as being very slender. Comparing the ones highlighted in silver and those in black on the page before again shows that this might be an issue overall... but welcome others inputs - perhaps to allay fears overall. 

[benbrown]

12 hours ago, 45568 said:

Did you see any of the 'crabbing' issue mentioned above Ben, and are the tender wheels disc or spoked? I'm still in two minds regarding a BR green one.

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

No I didn't notice any obvious crabbing but only had 11 wagons behind it mix of Bachmann, brass kits and white metal kits but the tender did rock from side to side a little but has full tender of real coal witch has eased that. When I opened the box the middle wheels was loose but quickly pushed back in and they are solid discs. All in all I'm pleased with it and have the Bachmann version on order and tempted by "green arrow" too but can I justify 3 v2s.

Ben

[davidw]

14 minutes ago, The Black Hat said:

Well I have seen some that did look fine but then saw these and was quite taken aback by the photos that were taken there hence asking for more and others opinions to check. Given the ones used by Rails its drawn my attention to it and think that it stands out as being very slender. Comparing the ones highlighted in silver and those in black on the page before again shows that this might be an issue overall... but welcome others inputs - perhaps to allay fears overall. 

I understand - particularly after seeing the rails photos. I'd like to see them in the flesh.

Edited January 17, 2022 by davidw

[Ollie K]

9 hours ago, The Black Hat said:

Well I have seen some that did look fine but then saw these and was quite taken aback by the photos that were taken there hence asking for more and others opinions to check. Given the ones used by Rails its drawn my attention to it and think that it stands out as being very slender. Comparing the ones highlighted in silver and those in black on the page before again shows that this might be an issue overall... but welcome others inputs - perhaps to allay fears overall. 

Judging by other third-party images on a well-known online auction platform, the smokebox door as modelled by Bachmann is very light- and angle-sensitive.
 

From dead ahead the door straps have the correct ‘face’ and seem convincingly proud of the door itself. From certain side views, the straps are much more subtle and almost invisible when not picked out in silver. 
 

FWIW here’s a couple of phone shots of 4791 I grabbed (through a glass display cabinet) in a model shop a few weeks ago. Looks alright to me. 
 

 

[45568]

Queried Rails of Sheffield regarding the tender wheels on their 60964 and was disappointed to find they are spoked. Does anyone know if Bachmann disc wheels will be available as spares?

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.