The new V2 ep

[davidw]

9 hours ago, Les1952 said:

I note the usual comments about an RRP of £230.

 

I'm looking at getting a 2-6-2 tender engine- but an HO gauge DB class 23.  I'm thinking the price could be- wait for it -  £400, or maybe £500 with sound.  This for a similar sized loco to the V2.  OK the tender has 4 axles but that is a lot to pay for an extra pair of wheels.

 

In international terms we are still getting things on the cheap.

 

Les

 

My Brawa 2-6-2 tank loco (with sound) had a price tag North of £500 - think V1/V3 by comparison.  

 

All things are relative. And it's possible to argue this all kinds of ways.  But a while back I was in conversation with a model shop owner. His view was that year on year less was being sold, impacting his profitability. Why? The eye watering costs.

 

There'll be some who will be prepared to pay others won't. Bachmann (and others) will need to hope that modellers have deep pockets.

 

What one is prepared to pay and expected to pay is widening. Personally at a lower price - what price is irrelevant as this varies from person to person- I'd have purchased many v2s, at least half a dozen.

 

I hesitate at  an RRP of 229. (Discounted to 200). Observations from the retailer is I'm not alone, but very curious to see the model.

 

Edited October 7, 2020 by davidw

[No Decorum]

9 hours ago, davidw said:

All things are relative. And it's possible to argue this all kinds of ways.  But a while back I was in conversation with a model shop owner. His view was that year on year less was being sold, impacting his profitability. Why? The eye watering costs.

 

There'll be some who will be prepared to pay others won't. Bachmann (and others) will need to hope that modellers have deep pockets.

 

What one is prepared to pay and expected to pay is widening. Personally at a lower price - what price is irrelevant as this varies from person to person- I'd have purchased many v2s, at least half a dozen.

 

I hesitate at  an RRP of 229. (Discounted to 200). Observations from the retailer is I'm not alone, but very curious to see the model.

 

 

It’s a tricky one for manufacturers. Clearly there is a demand for more sophisticated, and therefore expensive, models. On the other hand, competition is intense and it seems as if there is more being produced than the market can absorb. At the other extreme, clearly there is a demand for cheap models as Hornby seems to have made something of a killing with Railroad models riding on the back of an appetite for newly announced expensive versions. Another market success has been small but exquisite models which, whilst expensive for what they are, are far cheaper than larger models and, especially, multiple units.

 

Specifically as regards the V2, my very personal view is that it is the most beautiful of all locomotives (especially in LNER livery) with a superb performance. Certainly I’ll get one but just one. Contrast that with what I already have from a cheaper era with less coming to market: a limited edition Green Arrow, a main range Green Arrow (to muck about with), one in NE green and one with external steam pipes.

 

There’s little point grumbling about price; the point has been made repeatedly that it is the customer’s choice to buy or not. The typical customer, though, has funds at his disposal which have not risen at the same rate as prices.

 

 

[Willie Whizz]

On 07/10/2020 at 08:56, No Decorum said:

...

 

There’s little point grumbling about price; the point has been made repeatedly that it is the customer’s choice to buy or not. The typical customer, though, has funds at his disposal which have not risen at the same rate as prices.

 

 

 

I think that's very much the point, especially now it seems the "average age" of the "Average Modeller" must be close to if not beyond the retirement and State Pension age.

 

I don't really want to churn the same old aspects of the same old debates around yet again, but one aspect I've never seen enumerated is the difference in inflation in rising model railway prices and rising pension incomes - most of the latter (whether State or Private) don't actually "rise" in real terms because they are linked to the official inflation measures; so if (as I suspect) the model prices are tending to rise distinctly faster these days, many older modellers will inevitably find it a challenge to keep on buying 'product' on the scale they used to.

['CHARD]

10 minutes ago, Willie Whizz said:

 

...modellers will inevitably find it a challenge to keep on buying 'product' on the scale they used to.

 

That's true of all modellers on steady or fixed incomes I expect.  However, as we have seen, models are produced in lower quantities in each run today, compared to the days of D7063 and its ilk that squatted the catalogue for years if not decades.  

 

One factor of course, is that many of us who have been established in the hobby for any reasonable length of time don't actually 'need' to buy product on the scale we used to. 

 

Sure, I 'need' a V2 or two, central to the WR's traction as it was for many years, but the only other types I don't have RTR are multiple units and wagons: Gloucester Class 100 DMU, Sturgeons (I've six built from kits), and the Salmon that Flangeway have announced.  Yes, I could run to a current day spec D49 'Shire' but it really is the law of diminishing returns....

[Guardian]

On 06/10/2020 at 23:44, Les1952 said:

I'm looking at getting a 2-6-2 tender engine- but an HO gauge DB class 23.  I'm thinking the price could be- wait for it -  £400, or maybe £500 with sound.  This for a similar sized loco to the V2.  OK the tender has 4 axles but that is a lot to pay for an extra pair of wheels.

 

In international terms we are still getting things on the cheap.

 

Les

 

My Brawa 2-6-2 tank loco (with sound) had a price tag North of £500 - think V1/V3 by comparison.  

 

Hi Les

 

Generally, you are right, but may refer to recommended prices rather than real retail prices. I recall the Trix DB class 23 to be available for approx. EUR 380 in about 2012, and the last brawa class 75 at about EUR 450 at the same time, both for the sound versions. But generally, you are right - a large express steamer with sound and all features of recent construction will be as of EUR 400 to about 550 real retail price.

 

However, the pricing of model locos over here and in the U.S. is way ahead of UK, but UK models are made with less constructive and manufacturing effort. No articulated couplings and loco-tender-connections, no head and tail lighting, no cab light, few sound equipped and prepared models, simple gears, no maximum weight due to simple manufacturing, poor quality control, less motive power due to lack of traction tires. Besides that, beautiful models which are running sufficiently if manufactured properly and in the plain.

 

Besides that, Bachmann seem to improve their model standards in the UK and elsewhere - although not in relation to increasing of the prices. In the recent five to eight years, the nearly lost their complete GAS (Germany Austria Switzerland) market due to incredible price jumps of Liliput models. Prior to that, they were one of the larger brands in the H0 market, today, they have been reduced to a manufacturer of niche and commissioned models.

 

Anyway, I am looking forward to a Bachmann V2!

 

Best

Mark

Edited November 19, 2020 by Guardian

[Les1952]

5 hours ago, Guardian said:

Hi Les

 

Generally, you are right, but may refer to recommended prices rather than real retail prices. I recall the Trix DB class 23 to be available for approx. EUR 380 in about 2012, and the last brawa class 75 at about EUR 450 at the same time, both for the sound versions. But generally, you are right - a large express steamer with sound and all features of recent construction will be as of EUR 400 to about 550 real retail price.

 

However, the pricing of model locos over here and in the U.S. is way ahead of UK, but UK models are made with less constructive and manufacturing effort. No articulated couplings and loco-tender-connections, no head and tail lighting, no cab light, few sound equipped and prepared models, simple gears, no maximum weight due to simple manufacturing, poor quality control, less motive power due to lack of traction tires. Besides that, beautiful models which are running sufficiently if manufactured properly and in the plain.

 

Besides that, Bachmann seem to improve their model standards in the UK and elsewhere - although not in relation to increasing of the prices. In the recent five to eight years, the nearly lost their complete GAS (Germany Austria Switzerland) market due to incredible price jumps of Liliput models. Prior to that, they were one of the larger brands in the H0 market, today, they have been reduced to a manufacturer of niche and commissioned models.

 

Anyway, I am looking forward to a Bachmann V2!

 

Best

Mark

 

Yes, our models are more simply made and with a lot fewer features to keep the price down- then we bellyache incessantly they aren't good enough.

 

Some quote about cake?

 

Les

 

[scots region]

I’m a little surprised that there not more activity on this thread after the Rails/Locomotion announcement. 

[lwnameplates]

Just now, scots region said:

I’m a little surprised that there not more activity on this thread after the Rails/Locomotion announcement. 

i  just came to look myself, not been a steam fan i am very intrested in the koyli one having worked on the napier version but over 300 for sound thinking hard

[aaron3820]

This more or less sums up discussions over the new V2 I’ve personally seen

 

[Dick Turpin]

I pre-ordered the standard Bachmann range LNER green one from Derails for considerably less than that.

 

[Paul.Uni]

9 minutes ago, Dick Turpin said:

I pre-ordered the standard Bachmann range LNER green one from Derails for considerably less than that.

 

Because Derails along with most model shops usually sell their Bachmann models at RRP-15%. The current RRP for the standard V2 loco is £229.95.

 

Usually limited edition models are RRP plus a premium, not the same as the RRP.

Edited December 19, 2020 by Paul.Uni

[Class 158 productions]

I don’t know if it’s the video, or just my eyes, but the polished valve gear and wheels, to me, do not look that good. The valve gear looks rather crude in the photos with the ‘polished’ finish 

[Georgeconna]

On 06/10/2020 at 22:44, Les1952 said:

I note the usual comments about an RRP of £230.

 

I'm looking at getting a 2-6-2 tender engine- but an HO gauge DB class 23.  I'm thinking the price could be- wait for it -  £400, or maybe £500 with sound.  This for a similar sized loco to the V2.  OK the tender has 4 axles but that is a lot to pay for an extra pair of wheels.

 

In international terms we are still getting things on the cheap.

 

Les

 

My Brawa 2-6-2 tank loco (with sound) had a price tag North of £500 - think V1/V3 by comparison.  

 

Having seen the Euro Engines in Action dare I say the Build quality, Decoration and Internal Gubbins are somewhat better and they tend to run like the proverbial sewing machines when compared to the the UK outline locos. That is my take in it you get a better product for the extra dosh. No tight spots in valve gear, Dicky motors etc.

 

 

[gr.king]

4 minutes ago, Class 158 productions said:

I don’t know if it’s the video, or just my eyes, but the polished valve gear and wheels, to me, do not look that good. The valve gear looks rather crude in the photos with the ‘polished’ finish 

 

Indeed.   

 

[davidw]

Sadly the valve gear at least on this preproduction model doesn't do it any justice.  BR green lining is a tad heavy too.

[Les1952]

12 hours ago, Georgeconna said:

Having seen the Euro Engines in Action dare I say the Build quality, Decoration and Internal Gubbins are somewhat better and they tend to run like the proverbial sewing machines when compared to the the UK outline locos. That is my take in it you get a better product for the extra dosh. No tight spots in valve gear, Dicky motors etc.

 

 

 

I'm no longer sure about the build quality.  The last three new  locos I've returned as defective  have been Liliput, Fleischmann and Arnold, though not necessarily in that order.....

 

Les

 

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

14 hours ago, Les1952 said:

 

I'm no longer sure about the build quality.  The last three new  locos I've returned as defective  have been Liliput, Fleischmann and Arnold, though not necessarily in that order.....

 

Les

 

 

And thats a saga... if you want to dig into it there's plenty to read.  Essentially, quality took a dip when manufacturing was moved away from the original factories in Europe.

[9402 Fredrick]

On 19/12/2020 at 06:22, davidw said:

Sadly the valve gear at least on this preproduction model doesn't do it any justice.  BR green lining is a tad heavy too.

Remember it's pre-production, so, like I've had to point out to people elsewhere, it's not gonna look like this on the final version.

[davidw]

1 minute ago, 9402 Fredrick said:

Remember it's pre-production, so, like I've had to point out to people elsewhere, it's not gonna look like this on the final version.

My initial comment was that it's pre-production model.... I agree it will be interesting to see production versions.

[9402 Fredrick]

6 hours ago, davidw said:

My initial comment was that it's pre-production model.... I agree it will be interesting to see production versions.

With how well the EP sample was done, I am VERY excited, I will be pre-ordering one of the Rails sound fitted versions, and those two confirns that Bachmann are going to annouce sound fitted versions of the standard release V2s as well.

[adb968008]

I think the valve gear needs to be slightly less shiny, not dull, or dark, just slightly less reflective.

 

 

[robmcg]

This below is the nicest photo I've seen so far, in a different thread, and as pre-production models go it looks very nice to my eye.

 

I think the NRM versions I have seen in a video have rather brightly painted motion and wheel-rims and the commentary suggested it was in accord with preserved engines having polished parts.

 

In any event the standard pre-production engine here with the extra cab window detail looks impressive.

 

[adb968008]

On 21/12/2020 at 22:07, robmcg said:

 

 

Compares well..

(But whats that under the smokebox door on the above ? Is it a rendition of the oil pots ?)

 

Wouldnt it be nice if we could replace the standard hexbolt holding the rods to something flush to the rods and inset like the real thing ?

The cylinder drain cocks on the real thing are a bit long ! Secured to the wheel guards. 

however in museum condition,...

last time I saw it, it had just given its last breath, a few days earlier than it should have done...

 

 

but it wasnt that shiny.

Edited May 16, 2021 by adb968008

[robmcg]

Interesting to see 4771... I have the 2012 31-550B model   (and should take more care in placing the rear truck wheels on the track!)

 

for comparison to the new model when it arrives.

 

 

 

I rather like my TMC weathered 31-565 60862 late BR green too, but ...

 

 

 

I daresay it has many shortcomings too.

 

Here is the EP from November 2019

 

 

 

and the pic from two messages back just to remind us that the new model is coming.

 

Edited December 22, 2020 by robmcg
messing with pics

[adb968008]

The new one does look nice, the big correction has to be the boiler.

 

The V2 has a very odd shape boiler in that it lifts up from the firebox to the banjo, then falls toward the smokebox before coming cylindrical for a segment. (See below)

 

 

the old model had both a wider diameter boiler and a straight cylindrical one, which was wrong.

 

they have got it right on the new tooling.

 

 

Edited May 16, 2021 by adb968008