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The new V2 ep


Dr Gerbil-Fritters
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Nice to see the front running plate sorted. The whole front end looks much better. :-)

But there is still to much 'black' on the lner cab fronts and the apex of the green therefore does not go down far enough. This is becaise the moulded reparsentation of the cab to firebox joining strap is too wide. I did flag this to Bachmann when the first livery samples were shown and they appear to have done nothing. It is not much an issue on  the BR models but is a real howler in the LNER colours.

What a shame, especially as it was correct on the old model. I really dont understand how errors like this creap in, and how somethig so obvious to me is missed by professionals in Barwell and China.

I guess my order for green arrow will remain as there is now zilch chance of someone else doing it as Bachmann have otherwise done a very good job. But im wondering if i should switch from 4771 to 60800...

 

Edited by G-BOAF
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I've seen the actual thing in the 'flesh'.  It passes the 3' test with ease, but BR ER folk that demand the 1' test, will find a few rather disappointing parts. One or two anticipated here but I am not saying what/which. 

However, the whole look of it is far more like a real V2 and it pulls a large package without repetition, hesitation or deviation. 

For someone like me with not a total awareness of the fine details, it would be worth every penny, however I don't need one (yet). I'm waiting for hundreds of old versions to appear for 10/3d.

If it were ready for sale I'd suggest get in there quick.

Phil

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Everyone has their own pet fobles or perhaps more accurately 'sensitivities' wen it comes to new models vs old. Including the recent DCC-ready chassis upgrade.

 

Much as I like the old model the wheels and rods are pretty basic, but I've never had much of a problem with the boiler shape, the dome is far too flat and low,  the new model wins for me because of better driving wheels mostly and great paint, as well as nice trailing truck and tender details, and it has a better chimney and dome, also the windscreen partially obscures the possily too small cab windows, in general it just looks great.

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14 hours ago, G-BOAF said:

I really don't understand how errors like this creep in, and how something so obvious to me is missed by professionals in Barwell and China.

 

Hi,

 

It happens very easily, not just in model railways, but in lots of industries where the same thing has to be reviewed again and again by a team of people working on a number of projects (it happens to me all the time when I send things for checking!). To paraphase a well known tag line from a cleaning spray TV advert, you go 'detail blind', so that the most obvious of things get missed, even if you are really really careful!

 

I also know it happens where stuff gets changed without anybody telling you, so you don't get told to check it so it gets missed (and this can happen even if you do a final check before sign off etc.).

 

However, for someone independent who is coming in with fresh eyes and the information fresh in their mind, obvious errors can jump out at you.

 

Unfortunately a lot of the time this sort of thing is interpreted by the consumer (in this case) as, at best 'poor research' and at worst 'incompeteance'

 

Of course, there is also that some things are intentionally 'wrong' (not say that it is like this on the V2) due to the limitations in producing a mass produced model, so a compromise has to be sort.

 

Simon

Edited by St. Simon
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Universal rule of review (hardware or software): it's easy to spot the errors when you already know where they are (not specifically referring to this thread). 

 

Then there's the 'small' tasks of establishing with 100% certainty a 'known good' reference and establishing the credibility of the reviewers.

 

Given the complexities of toy train shape, detail and livery variations it's not at all surprising to me that some  things are wrong sometimes.

Edited by spamcan61
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Although the general direction of progress is good in most current OO gauge steam locomotives, I am disappointed that the valve gear (such an important part of the character and function of the real thing!) continues to be generally quite a poor representation of the real thing.

 

By contrast, here is one of my current fleet's twirly bits - a model that is probably 20 years old or more.

 

1909837873_twirlybits.JPG.f535e7bd8cc83814d300914f9ed47331.JPG

 

 

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On 22/09/2021 at 06:42, robmcg said:

I couldn't resist a comparison between 60964 new tooling and 60865 old tooling, even though tenders and steam pipes are different, not to mention my lighting is pretty basic.

 

60964_V4_IMG_3821_1abcd1_r2080a.jpg.290cf5519532c92739415e706816b67c.jpg

 

Img_0573abcde_r2080a.jpg.a47121b64ea2de0d9893898c7aeab422.jpg

 

not an exact comparison but interesting,

Both decent models but for me neither captures the looks fast even stood still stance of the prototype. They look 'hefty' and the new one is spoilt by some careless inattention to obvious errors (the smokebox and the join between the cab and firebox for me). I'll wait to see in the flesh but these models aren't cheap and there are attractive competitors due including from Bachmann.

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34 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Both decent models but for me neither captures the looks fast even stood still stance of the prototype. They look 'hefty' and the new one is spoilt by some careless inattention to obvious errors (the smokebox and the join between the cab and firebox for me). I'll wait to see in the flesh but these models aren't cheap and there are attractive competitors due including from Bachmann.

 

Isn't the picture showing the old Bachmann (60865) and the new Bachmann (60964)?  What other 'attractive competitors... including from Bachmann' are there?  

 

In my mind I have:

 

Original Bachmann, original body tooling, split chassis

Intermediate Bachmann, original body tooling, non-split chassis

New Bachmann, new body tooling, new chassis, new everything

 

plus the various kits over the years, exhaustively listed over on Mr Wright's thread.

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29 minutes ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

 

Isn't the picture showing the old Bachmann (60865) and the new Bachmann (60964)?  What other 'attractive competitors... including from Bachmann' are there?  

 

In my mind I have:

 

Original Bachmann, original body tooling, split chassis

Intermediate Bachmann, original body tooling, non-split chassis

New Bachmann, new body tooling, new chassis, new everything

 

plus the various kits over the years, exhaustively listed over on Mr Wright's thread.

I am talking of photos of both the new and the old version - trust me on that one. As for competitors I mean other upcoming OO models including Type 1,2, 3,4 and 5 diesels plus Manors and 78xxx all on my 'possible' radar. Appreciate no one else is making a V2 so if its a V2 or nothing then Bachmann is your sole choice.  Apart from staying broadly 1955-1965 I am pretty pragmatic in my loco buying preferences :) 

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14 hours ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

Ah, I thought you meant a competitor V2... :)  

 

Yes, perhaps the lengthy gestation of the V2 has put it behind the quality of some more recent/speedier developments.

 

I think this could be part of the problem, especially with Bachmanns long lead times. Things that wouldn’t have mattered 4/5 years ago are now big problems and the market has moved, but so have the prices. Look at accurascale, already hinting that the next batches of 37s and 55s will have rotating fans, they were announced in 2018 and 2019 now being upgraded before release! 

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3 minutes ago, Mad McCann said:

Whatever issues there are with the finish will be academic when mine morphs into 60813 under a coat of 1965 64A grime...

The finish is very good. Sadly the concerns are fidelity to the prototype. 

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I did note your observations, David, fair enough.

None of them are of massive concern to me and will be dealt with.

Quite surprised they modelled the rear cab windows raised as you rarely ever see them that way on any locomotive, let alone V2s. Easily put right if you're inclined to DIY fixes. ;)

 

Davy.

 

 

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7 hours ago, Mad McCann said:

Quite surprised they modelled the rear cab windows raised as you rarely ever see them that way on any locomotive, let alone V2s.

Wow I hadn’t even noticed that. A first on OO LNER locos? 

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I hope the glazing for the rear cab window is separate as per the D11 but it's not a major concern, the apparent size of the window my be, they look a tad small in the photos of the new model exacerbated perhaps by the lining around the window glasses?  

 

These things can look so different in the flesh, digital photography being so cruel.

 

I am looking forward to the new model, what I have seen so far is very impressive, and I have a feeling that even the very slightly overscale rods and motion will look ok...  after all, I just took this photo of the 2008-produced pre-DCC version of 60865 and the factory-darkened rods came out well in the natural light of my living room...

 

IMG_0650ab_r2080a.jpg.7b6c5e91af06ee4675e8299e2c05301b.jpg

 

This is an un-retouched basic photo straight from the camera , of the 2001 tooling essentially, and the chassis was improved on c2012-on models . It makes an interesting comparison with the new model, as I have already said. Forgive me I am impatient for the lovely new model so I can photograph it! :) I am sure the new model will render the above to be rather crude by comparison/

Edited by robmcg
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On 23/09/2021 at 11:27, St. Simon said:

 

Hi,

 

It happens very easily, not just in model railways, but in lots of industries where the same thing has to be reviewed again and again by a team of people working on a number of projects (it happens to me all the time when I send things for checking!). To paraphase a well known tag line from a cleaning spray TV advert, you go 'detail blind', so that the most obvious of things get missed, even if you are really really careful!

 

I also know it happens where stuff gets changed without anybody telling you, so you don't get told to check it so it gets missed (and this can happen even if you do a final check before sign off etc.).

 

However, for someone independent who is coming in with fresh eyes and the information fresh in their mind, obvious errors can jump out at you.

 

Unfortunately a lot of the time this sort of thing is interpreted by the consumer (in this case) as, at best 'poor research' and at worst 'incompeteance'

 

Of course, there is also that some things are intentionally 'wrong' (not say that it is like this on the V2) due to the limitations in producing a mass produced model, so a compromise has to be sort.

 

Simon

 

All the more reason to circulate images at earlier stages in the production (which to be fair Bachmann did do, but are now not doing for future releases). Look at what Accurascale are doing getting fresh eyes on here to provide feedback, it is good for us, for them and the end product.

The V2 I really don't understand why the 'band' on the cab is positioned as it is, and why it is so white. The amount of black and shape of the green on the cab front is really really jarring. it was very obvious on the first livery sample and I did flag it to Bachmann, saying it would need an amendment to the tooling of the cab front. This appears to have been ignored. For a model retailing at over £200, with tooling expected to last many years, things should be right now.

There have been 'first batch' errors before from Bachmann, namely the cab sloop on the early A2s. I wrote a long letter explaining these issues and the problem (front of the cab was too thick, hindering proper interface). It WAS fixed on subsequent batches, but no spares for 'batch 1' customers were available.

 

I'm 80% minded to switch my pre-order of Green Arrow to BR version as a result of this, despite vastly preferring Apple Green, which is a shame as the rest of the loco is wonderful (aside from smokebox join, which can be fixed if desired with filler and localised repaint in black, in a way that apple green and fine lining cannot be)

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9 hours ago, G-BOAF said:

 

All the more reason to circulate images at earlier stages in the production (which to be fair Bachmann did do, but are now not doing for future releases). Look at what Accurascale are doing getting fresh eyes on here to provide feedback, it is good for us, for them and the end product.

The V2 I really don't understand why the 'band' on the cab is positioned as it is, and why it is so white. The amount of black and shape of the green on the cab front is really really jarring. it was very obvious on the first livery sample and I did flag it to Bachmann, saying it would need an amendment to the tooling of the cab front. This appears to have been ignored. For a model retailing at over £200, with tooling expected to last many years, things should be right now.

There have been 'first batch' errors before from Bachmann, namely the cab sloop on the early A2s. I wrote a long letter explaining these issues and the problem (front of the cab was too thick, hindering proper interface). It WAS fixed on subsequent batches, but no spares for 'batch 1' customers were available.

 

I'm 80% minded to switch my pre-order of Green Arrow to BR version as a result of this, despite vastly preferring Apple Green, which is a shame as the rest of the loco is wonderful (aside from smokebox join, which can be fixed if desired with filler and localised repaint in black, in a way that apple green and fine lining cannot be)

This is something that I have questioned about the new announcement policy. Whilst we all don’t want to wait a long time for models (not bashing the 3 month intervals), peer review can be extremely helpful and went it’s not used,models can turn out poor. And as you say with models like this with RRPs of £229 you want it to be right. And the argument that modern technology is so good that they can’t make mistakes has been proven wrong numerous times.Other manufacturers have benefited from listening, whether they act on it is another story …

I do hope Bachmann at least show some EPs in the future, so this situation can be avoided.

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1 hour ago, davidw said:

Model Rail mag has a large photo of the BR black version. It's a review sample. They only had it before going to press so no other details.

As per the Peterborough North thread it seems a batch has been sent out to the media for reviews to appear before the main batch appear on sale. Presumably Hornby mag will claim the 'worlds first review' in the next issue due on the 7th. Question is will Sams Trains already have proclaimed it 'shoddy, shoddy shoddy!' by then?:jester:

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Two naff photos of the samples at the GETS this weekend. Sorry, glass cases in awkward positions + phone camera indoors doesn’t make for high quality images. 
 

In the metal the valve gear is on the thickset side but not as overly chunky as it looks on the official ‘press’ images, IMHO. Still not a fan of the exposed screwheads though.

C1D1EA95-815D-49A9-99BB-4F64C7D89682.jpeg

41B710DC-6142-40EC-B8E0-8BF834985A2B.jpeg

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