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IMGP0012a.JPG.9193eac80b7386d4e3cca7c6b6668797.JPG

 

That thing on the fire box as Poor Old Bruce called it was an Airfix City of Truro chimney.

I've now cut it in two and the base will form the safety valve mound.

 

What to do with the tender-drive ?

I've got the top half of a white-metal Midland Railway one slightly damaged which I could use that but the motor will tower above it so a big pile of coal will be needed. The original Airfix Tender top was based on a LMS one which is two modern for me.

I want to build in as much weight as I can to increase the adhesion of the tender drive. We'll see but white metal top is my best plan at the moment.

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That's got the spirit of the LNWR style locos about it.

 

Regarding the tender drive, I think as it's not going that high in relation to the cab roof you'll get away with a coal line just touching the motor top, perhaps some very thin black plastic you can soften with a hot-air gun and mould over it and then just sprinkle coal dust onto superglue? Perhaps you could add a base to the whitemetal tender to increase the height of the sides a tad?

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On 15/02/2021 at 22:03, AdamsRadial said:

That's got the spirit of the LNWR style locos about it.

 

Regarding the tender drive, I think as it's not going that high in relation to the cab roof you'll get away with a coal line just touching the motor top, perhaps some very thin black plastic you can soften with a hot-air gun and mould over it and then just sprinkle coal dust onto superglue? Perhaps you could add a base to the whitemetal tender to increase the height of the sides a tad?

I made the tender body first then laid cling film inside, inserted the motor/chassis and screwed it up tight. Then laid a film of PVA over the cling film and sprinkled real coal on and set aside to harden. Result was a perfect fit. (Lima HO tender drive unit) It may foul a gear but is still flexible enough to push out/away from any teeth! See photo.

 

 

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Edited by 33C
added photo.
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Thanks to 33C and AdamsRadial for the coal heap advice, I nearly said tender advice instead.

 

Nice loco 33C is that a Ratio 2-4-0 I though it was 0 gauge for a moment. Rare to see one of these finished.

But hang on a minute with the coal heap advice I have not even got the tender together yet I have been trimming and preparing the white metal bits ready for gluing or soldering yet. let alone get them to fit around the motor.

 

Trouble with buying these sort of bags of bits from exhibition club sales, exhibitions remember them, you never know if they are all there and even if the bits are from the same kit ?

 

IMGP0043a.JPG.a1e81c5290ce3d30399dd57868772bf8.JPG

 

 

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Thanks for the comment. I've done two of the Ratio 2-4-0's, this is the first one,  both use the Lima HO tender motor and cling film trick. Tried it on a Triang motor bogie for a Dukedog. I'm 50/50 on that one! 

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Edited by 33C
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Hi 33C thanks for your critique, comments are always valuable from another modeller.

 

Getting a low profile motor drive for pug bashes expands the art of bashing into the main line tender engine world.

Yeah the old GWR tender is a very low sided thing which makes it harder to build up a convincing mound of coal, yours looks like it would topple over as soon as the loco moved away unfortunately. Nice loco by the way is it a converted Airfix city.

 

I have seen some old pictures of real world tenders where the big lumps of coal are built into a kind of wall around the top of the tender as if they were bricks, was the driver expecting a long trip away from any bunkers, perhaps.

This meant plenty of coal bits lying on the tracks for gleaners roaming with their rough hessian sacks.

Have you looked at using a modern diesel motor bogie the sort Peter's Spares carry as er spares, there are some promising low profile ones but I am not sure of the wheel base of the 6 wheeled ones.

Supply is a bit erratic though.

The old style Hornby Terrier has the 6ft + 6ft wheelbase would that work if you hide the coupling rods ?

 

IMGP0046a.JPG.7df1dd3ca1e93e33f1dcd3a8ddf242be.JPG

 

Here's my attempt for a small 4 wheel tender, although it has not got very far, it is a motor boogie intend for a Hornby Pendelino ? IIRC.

 

IMGP0048a.JPG.c76ae5529f4c4165836ad77644b26af5.JPG

 

The body is a reduced length Airfix city but the same height as a normal GWR without the tender rails, it just covers the motor, the coal load is the original Airfix moulding a very low profile bogie.

 

IMGP0051a.JPG.ef3a2e0c528bb6929bb002cbfa5ab642.JPG

 

Unlike old-school motor bogies it is all plastic so hardly any weight at all that is why progress has stopped I feared it will not have enough adhesion and not much space to ram the lead in.

 

The right hand one is built around a continental diesel chassis, all metal and very heavy ideal it is to go with a long boiler 2-4-0 Spanish type.

 

Of course the best tender drives were the old Bullant units from Australia, high quality motor, any size of wheel you wanted and a fly wheel brilliant but expensive. Gone now the maker has retired I think it was a one-man band.

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5 hours ago, relaxinghobby said:

Hi 33C thanks for your critique, comments are always valuable from another modeller.

 

Getting a low profile motor drive for pug bashes expands the art of bashing into the main line tender engine world.

Yeah the old GWR tender is a very low sided thing which makes it harder to build up a convincing mound of coal, yours looks like it would topple over as soon as the loco moved away unfortunately. Nice loco by the way is it a converted Airfix city.

 

I have seen some old pictures of real world tenders where the big lumps of coal are built into a kind of wall around the top of the tender as if they were bricks, was the driver expecting a long trip away from any bunkers, perhaps.

This meant plenty of coal bits lying on the tracks for gleaners roaming with their rough hessian sacks.

Have you looked at using a modern diesel motor bogie the sort Peter's Spares carry as er spares, there are some promising low profile ones but I am not sure of the wheel base of the 6 wheeled ones.

Supply is a bit erratic though.

The old style Hornby Terrier has the 6ft + 6ft wheelbase would that work if you hide the coupling rods ?

 

IMGP0046a.JPG.7df1dd3ca1e93e33f1dcd3a8ddf242be.JPG

 

Here's my attempt for a small 4 wheel tender, although it has not got very far, it is a motor boogie intend for a Hornby Pendelino ? IIRC.

 

IMGP0048a.JPG.c76ae5529f4c4165836ad77644b26af5.JPG

 

The body is a reduced length Airfix city but the same height as a normal GWR without the tender rails, it just covers the motor, the coal load is the original Airfix moulding a very low profile bogie.

 

IMGP0051a.JPG.ef3a2e0c528bb6929bb002cbfa5ab642.JPG

 

Unlike old-school motor bogies it is all plastic so hardly any weight at all that is why progress has stopped I feared it will not have enough adhesion and not much space to ram the lead in.

 

The right hand one is built around a continental diesel chassis, all metal and very heavy ideal it is to go with a long boiler 2-4-0 Spanish type.

 

Of course the best tender drives were the old Bullant units from Australia, high quality motor, any size of wheel you wanted and a fly wheel brilliant but expensive. Gone now the maker has retired I think it was a one-man band.

Yes, converted City and Triang motor bogie. It occured to me that using a whole cut down "Nellie", tank tops down with dummy side frames could be an option and this reminded me of the "Sturrock steam tenders". Could be the answer to your dilemma!

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An a side for a lock down  Sunday morning it was very busy walking across the common and the golf course on the long way around to the supermarket, dogs walking their people families every where and the main road humming with cars and that by 11 am. Sunday mornings used to be really quiet, maybe they are all coming home from church. The supermarket car park was rammed so I did not go in.

 

The whole point of this loco for me was that it was to be a small loco, a pre-grouping minor railway type like the Cambrian railway ones. So I shortened an Airfix 2P and stuck a small boiler on it. See above post 9th Dec 20, there is a sketch plan made from the dimensions of the first generation 4-4-0 from the 1870s.

As a comparison I put it next to a Hornby GMR T9 a prototype from about 1899 20 years later. It is noticeably shorter but was too tall, I panicked fearing this build was not coming out as I planed. Then the next day found a fixing screw was holding the body about 2mm too high, it stuck up from the chassis pushing the body to high some side cutters sorted that out.

So for comparison here is a size progression of three locos.

 

IMGP0060a.JPG.fe2c15bb6cac5f31a4442e89722ad920.JPG

 

If boiler size is a indicator of power and haulage capacity my small cross country 4-4-0 is the middle.

 

IMGP0055a.JPG.900450e8780c3529013fb2d97113b0fd.JPG

 

Now I've got the body 2mm lower I'll see if I can find a taller chimney. I like tall chimneys.

Edited by relaxinghobby
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4 minutes ago, AdamsRadial said:

I can't remember if it was J N Maskelyne or somebody like him who once set the perfect loco had a straight line passing over the tops of the chimney, dome, and leading edge of the cab. 

Hi There,

 

Stephenson's Rocket is somewhat out of the running by that metric !

 

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The 1830 rebuild of a certain yellow locomotive.

 

Gibbo.

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On 21/02/2021 at 23:46, AdamsRadial said:

I can't remember if it was J N Maskelyne or somebody like him who once set the perfect loco had a straight line passing over the tops of the chimney, dome, and leading edge of the cab. 

Yep, S.E.C.R. Class D..... 

Edited by 33C
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Progress with the tender body, the sides and front and back came in a plastic bag of junk and bits, the lower part representing the chassis sides had been cut away so it will fit onto the Airfix chassis.

There where some flat sheets of white-metal in the bag but did not fit anything so I've trimmed them to fit as a top to hide the motor and floor at the front.

 

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Looks like the sides are high enough to hide the motor almost completely only a small heap of coal will be needed, should not look too improbable.

 

 

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To cut the white metal flat pieces like the forward pointing bit here I prefer to score with a heavy craft knife and straight edge, score both sides, then snap. The cut edges can then be cleaned up with a file.

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  • 2 weeks later...

IMGP0069a.JPG.f4e2cf7c462fdeea167f241574ddbd95.JPG

 

So this project is slowing down it is in danger of being put away in the margarine tub of doom. If I push on I could finish it perhaps.

Making a drawing or sketch to plan the next steps helps get over the slowing down. I need to work out detailing for the body, things like firebox door, handrails and cab edges.

Here is my sketch plan.

By the way I have used one of those 4 colour Bic biros my second most favourite type of pen.

 

IMGP0067a.JPG.a0918ff94be57f8fa3fa283ff7eadd2a.JPG

 

Now the white metal tender top is finished, at least as far as the main shell, I also found the original metal ballast weights form the 2P tender and spent time sawing of the corners and odd protuberances so they would fit under the smaller and thicker white metal shell. The weights are leaden, I was sawing off so much I was worried that I was loosing too much weight but when all parts are combined the tender is satisfactorily weighty. It should be able to handle a load of 4 or 5, 6 wheeler coaches it's intended job easily

 

 

 

 

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IMGP0005b.jpg.5ae487158775a05829d76e458388bccd.jpg

 

 

Some slithers and fillets of plasticard glued on to form the edges.

Spectical holes still wonky.

I filled in the space over the left hand splasher, looking from the back to front of the lococ photographs of the real thing show the top of the round splasher behind the cab side, in the model it was too easy to squeeze in the sides so I cut and small rectangles of plastic to make a front and top. Not prototypical but makes the model stronger.

Thin strips of plastic are cut from thin sheet with a knife and steel rule.

Edited by relaxinghobby
corrections and second thoughts
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  • 2 weeks later...

Waiting for loco parts so switched to wagon building or at least cutting out the pieces.

 

A few months ago I drew up some parts on Inkscape a computer drawing app. This will print exact square shapes far better than I can ever manages by hand, using set square and rulers. Using the computer gives a better more accurate way of marking out materials for me, I find.

So I designed a kit for a simple open wagon which is really just a series of rectangles. Starting with some sort of original drawing, usually from a magazine, it is scanned in and using the Inkscape App's tracing and drawing options the sides ends floor can be copied out. Using the app working in layers once you have complete say the sides and ends you can freeze them from being affected and then on a layer above marking and design planking and then on another layer above that add details like hinges and strapping.

You can also work out the dimensions of each part and allow for thickness of materials and layers.

I've also made a modified wagon from a pent roof design with triangular ends to round ends so I can get several different wagon shapes from one basic design. So they all look a bit different when in a train together.

I have no digital controlled laser cutter or knife cutter, wish I had so the final cutting stage of the drawing is finished by hand, so all the shapes are printed out onto a piece of A4 on a ink jet or laser printer. I had enough room on the paper for 2 wagons and some loco side tanks I been working up as a separate drawing.

The photo shows after the paper is printed out and stuck to a sheet of 20 thou or 0.5 mm plastic it begins to fall apart as the lines are scored this is OK just scoring the lines means they are transferred to the plastic below and can be cut through later. I used dry stick glue which just about hangs on to the plastic provided you lightly rub down the plastic sheet with some glass paper so a bit of roughness is made to provide a key.

Hopefully I'll get a set of parts that all fit nicely together.

 

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Cutting through the paper and scoring the plastic below. Sketch of the hoped for wagon on left.

 

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Loco parts for a small tank, trouble is it's some months since I made the drawing and I forgotten which parts go where.

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Interesting. I have considered taking this approach (I am also unconvinced by my abilities to cut plasticard straight and square, although I think - hope? - I’m getting better). Do you cut through the centre of the printed lines? Or pick a common horizontal and vertical edge?

 

I have reservations about the accuracy of my home printer, although I guess printing in a single colour should weed out any calibration issues. Maybe worth a try before forking out for a Silhouette cutter...?

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Don't worry printers are far more accurate than any wobbly hand and knife combination.

This is done on a Samsung laser about 3 years old. The biggest problem was learning the drawing application, Inkscapes way of doing it seemed so counter intuitive to someone bought up with paper and pencil. Then persuading all the operating system, the printer drivers and stuff which try to improve your finished work as you pass it down the line to the printer. App changes the finished work of art to become printer ready, then the operating system, Microsoft in this case changes it as it passes it on to the Samsung printer-driver which then modifies it as it sees fit, then the printer gets it and tweaks it slightly to fit the paper or some cleaver thing. Techno Chinese whispers gone mad. So I could never get my plan printed to exactly the proper size. Always draw two lines say 40 millimeters in an L shape so you can check the size of the printed drawing, all that hand along processing seems to change the outcome and you can end up making something to say 3.8 mm or 4.1 mm to the foot. Grrrrrrr.

 

In the end I found if you used the Inkscape option to convert the drawing file to a PDF  option the procession of printing apps would leave the dimensions alone and I could have my scale drawing dimensional unmolested.

 

Colours are great they let you keep track of different bits, try different options on your particular PC and printer combination.

I go for 0.2 mm lines on the original drawing, they seem to give good results. I just cut along them with my eyesight that's as good as I get, still gives far better result than by wobbly pencil and set square.

 

Some trial and error and repeat as you learn your set up. Only the dustman needs to know about the less successful ones.

Edited by relaxinghobby
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G'Day Folks

 

Sorry to go back to the tender drives and the height of the coal piles to cover the motor, have you ever thought to build 'Oil tanks' on the top, I've seen a few loco's that have been converted for oil burning, none lasted very long, but it would solve a problem, and look different.

 

manna

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On 23/03/2021 at 07:55, relaxinghobby said:

Don't worry printers are far more accurate than any wobbly hand and knife combination.

This is done on a Samsung laser about 3 years old. The biggest problem was learning the drawing application, Inkscapes way of doing it seemed so counter intuitive to someone bought up with paper and pencil. Then persuading all the operating system, the printer drivers and stuff which try to improve your finished work as you pass it down the line to the printer. App changes the finished work of art to become printer ready, then the operating system, Microsoft in this case changes it as it passes it on to the Samsung printer-driver which then modifies it as it sees fit, then the printer gets it and tweaks it slightly to fit the paper or some cleaver thing. Techno Chinese whispers gone mad. So I could never get my plan printed to exactly the proper size. Always draw two lines say 40 millimeters in an L shape so you can check the size of the printed drawing, all that hand along processing seems to change the outcome and you can end up making something to say 3.8 mm or 4.1 mm to the foot. Grrrrrrr.

 

In the end I found if you used the Inkscape option to convert the drawing file to a PDF  option the procession of printing apps would leave the dimensions alone and I could have my scale drawing dimensional unmolested.

 

Colours are great they let you keep track of different bits, try different options on your particular PC and printer combination.

I go for 0.2 mm lines on the original drawing, they seem to give good results. I just cut along them with my eyesight that's as good as I get, still gives far better result than by wobbly pencil and set square.

 

Some trial and error and repeat as you learn your set up. Only the dustman needs to know about the less successful ones.

I found this technique good when I was scratch building my station canopies. I needed lots of identical parts so used Inkscape to produce the template drawings and set the line width as narrow as it would print on my Epson Stylus inkjet. The prints on plain paper were stuck to the card ( I used card for the project) using repositionable spray mount and the lines scored through enough to allow the template to be removed and the card then cut through. I used a new sharp scalpel blade.

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22 hours ago, manna said:

G'Day Folks

 

Sorry to go back to the tender drives and the height of the coal piles to cover the motor, have you ever thought to build 'Oil tanks' on the top, I've seen a few loco's that have been converted for oil burning, none lasted very long, but it would solve a problem, and look different.

 

manna

When where the first oil conversions of steam locos? Would it be a wheeze to apply to a pre-grouping tender drive model set in the 1880s, as far back as that. I vaguely remember reading that the Great Eastern Railway had some the oil burners, their oil was a waste by product of their carriage gas lighting gas production plant. Later oil fired loco conversion would appear if the price of coal compared with oil made it favourable to the accountants.

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IMGP0013b.JPG.635bb7c12fa589d44f864a8d42045f5b.JPG

 

A sort of show and tell of my thought process which seems to be a picture base palaver for my little brain as long as there is only one picture at a time.

A paper and pencil sketch of the wagons I hope to produce. I've been trying to upgrade the old brain to 3D CAD, only getting as far as 2D drawings in Inkscape or Corel Draw type application programs.

 

IMGP0036a.JPG.6aed7e15347213de6b8cacb93fa9f548.JPG

Still have lots of jobs to do to finish off the 4-4-0, smaller ones like adding details like handrails but I can't find my pin chuck, first I could not find the small drill bits, I've got them now but have mislaid the pin-chuck also the much larger tender, a fist sized lump. How? That will teach me to tidy up the workbench. Frustrating, especially if I spend time and try to hunt them down. It's better to do something else the missing bits will turn up in due course.

So I've got this old Hornby J52, old motor type, and shiny plated coupling rods and wheel rims. So I've been using Sharpie pens to colour them in, the pens are spirit based so the ink sticks and several coats can be built up getting quite a strong colour.

The chassis type has the sprung wheels under the motor magnet and chunky plastic gears.

 

 

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More tender progress.

 

Found it, the tender not the meaning of life, still looking for that. It was right by my elbow behind a little box at the side of the workbench somewhere close by but I did not expect it to be there so I looked every where else but there.

Now where is that pin chuck so I can do the hand rail holes.

 

IMGP0050a.JPG.9231988635f0846e456d52b653f76538.JPG

 

See the inside of the corners.... there are support strips that are part of the molded sides. To clear these and get the original weights up inside I have had to do some trimming and sawing. Still has most of its adhesion weight. Next step is to devise a way to fix the metal top to the plastic chassis.

 

IMGP0051a.JPG.bcb2f7d424e3a774fe9d28b5e6780ff0.JPG

 

The weights are held by screws to the motor and lower half of the tender, the original Airfix way of fixing.

 

There is a second tender conversion from my abandoned Midland 2F, which is where I stole the weights from, some earlier raid has also taken one of the wheels, this is the fate of unfinished and stalled projects they tend to get raided for odd parts now and again and can be whittled away.

 

How to fix the upper metal tender top to the lower plastic chassis, it must be removable for maintenance.

 

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IMGP0003a.JPG.c31e38f2683e2cb6c4e677bb68625b8c.JPG

 

The worst job in model railways is handrails. Trying to match the little posts and cleaning out the holes breaking drills, handling stuff which is too tiny tiny to pick up unless you use tweezers then they ping off somewhere lost forever. Which glue to use, matching the drill size to the wire, remembering how to use a Vernier Calliper to measure and compare thickness. I think these handrail pillars are Alan Gibson they needed cleaning up and the holes opening out with a 0.3mm drill for my bit of wire.

How they manage to manufacture such small items in the first place is amazing. The details are almost to small to see.

 

IMGP0002a.JPG.ba14f56886e1e2b39da1495801bdbe74.JPG

 

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