tractor_37260 Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 Trying to identify a 21 pin decoder. CV8 reads 99 which I believe is Lenz. I think it's a Lenz Standard - (3 function outputs) - but did Lenz produce 21 pin Standards - thought they were all wired with plugs? TIA Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 Is it definitely 3 function? Lenz do Silvers as 21 pin with 4 functions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted December 1, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 1, 2019 The current Lenz Silver+ 21-pin decoder has 5 functions. Whether the earlier version (without the +) has 5 too I couldn't say. What does CV 7 say? That will tell you the version. The Standard has never been offered as a 21-pin decoder. Would have been nice if they had though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractor_37260 Posted December 1, 2019 Author Share Posted December 1, 2019 25 minutes ago, Butler Henderson said: Is it definitely 3 function? Lenz do Silvers as 21 pin with 4 functions. Only 3 outputs AFAIK, but I'll look into it further Attached photos may help The unknown one is marked LP 811 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractor_37260 Posted December 1, 2019 Author Share Posted December 1, 2019 25 minutes ago, RFS said: The current Lenz Silver+ 21-pin decoder has 5 functions. Whether the earlier version (without the +) has 5 too I couldn't say. What does CV 7 say? That will tell you the version. The Standard has never been offered as a 21-pin decoder. Would have been nice if they had though. CV7 reads 99 also.... I was also pretty sure Standards were not available in 21pin versions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted December 1, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 1, 2019 CV7 should not also be 99. It should be the decoder type so I don't know why it reads 99 . Is it the same on both? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractor_37260 Posted December 1, 2019 Author Share Posted December 1, 2019 15 minutes ago, RFS said: CV7 should not also be 99. It should be the decoder type so I don't know why it reads 99 . Is it the same on both? Yep both CV7 and CV8 read 99 ....very odd..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted December 2, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 2, 2019 Just checked and CV7=99 is correct for the Silver21+ decoder that you have. What you need to know is what the CV7 value is for the unknown decoder. If it's the earlier version of the Lenz 21 (ie Silver not Silver+) then it should have a value of 79. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAF96 Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 (edited) 79 is Hattons according to NMRA list https://www.nmra.org/sites/default/files/standards/sandrp/pdf/appendix_a_s-9.2.2.pdf Edited December 2, 2019 by RAF96 To make hyperlink live Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted December 2, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, RAF96 said: 79 is Hattons according to NMRA list https://www.nmra.org/sites/default/files/standards/sandrp/pdf/appendix_a_s-9.2.2.pdf That's the value of CV8 which is the manufacturer id and 79 is indeed Hatton's. CV7 is then the manufacturer's model number which is what I am referring to here, with CV7=79 meaning a Silver 21 decoder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAF96 Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 11 minutes ago, RFS said: That's the value of CV8 which is the manufacturer id and 79 is indeed Hatton's. CV7 is then the manufacturer's model number which is what I am referring to here, with CV7=79 meaning a Silver 21 decoder. Apologies - of course it is. You would need to see if a manufacturer posts this detail in the public domain. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractor_37260 Posted December 2, 2019 Author Share Posted December 2, 2019 Firstly thanks to all who have tried to help. I've now re-read both decoders: 21pin Silver Unknown 21pin CV7 = 82 CV7 = 99 CV8 = 99 CV8 = 99 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted December 2, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 2, 2019 (edited) My file of Lenz definitions shows code 82 being "82 Silver21 mit 21pol. Federleiste" with Federleiste being German for "female connector". I think you have labelled your two decoders the wrong way round: your unknown decoder is indeed the latest Silver21+ decoder and CV 128 will tell you if the firmware is current, the current release being 14. It's your other decoder that's the earlier Silver (ie non +) version. This is the copy of the file but there may be a couple missing: 70 Gold mini 71 Gold H0 72 Gold maxi 73 Köf H0 75 Silver 76 Silver mini 77 0-V36 78 Silver direct 79 Silver 21 80 LF101XF 81 Standard 82 Silver21 mit 21pol. Federleiste 83 LRC100 90 Gold mini PLUS 91 Gold (H0) PLUS 92 Gold21 PLUS 93 Standard PLUS 95 Silver PLUS 96 Silver mini PLUS 97 Silver Plux12 PLUS 98 Silver direct PLUS 99 Silver21 PLUS Edited December 2, 2019 by RFS Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractor_37260 Posted December 2, 2019 Author Share Posted December 2, 2019 1 hour ago, RFS said: My file of Lenz definitions shows code 82 being "82 Silver21 mit 21pol. Federleiste" with Federleiste being German for "female connector". >> Re the photo above on the left is an original Lenz Silver - I've had it for a number of years still with manual, so it's def NOT a + version. CV128 on it reads 2 I think you have labelled your two decoders the wrong way round: your unknown decoder is indeed the latest Silver21+ decoder and CV 128 will tell you if the firmware is current, the current release being 14. It's your other decoder that's the earlier Silver (ie non +) version. >> The "unknown" decoder on the right on the above photo looks nothing like a Lenz Silver of any kind, the board layout is completely different. CV128 on it reads 14 https://www.modelrailwaysdirect.co.uk/Lenz-10321-Silver-21-plus-Locomotive-Decoder-10321-01/ above link shows a 21pin Silver + it's very similar to the original standard Silver in my above photo, but nothing like the "unknown" decoder This is the copy of the file but there may be a couple missing: 70 Gold mini 71 Gold H0 72 Gold maxi 73 Köf H0 75 Silver 76 Silver mini 77 0-V36 78 Silver direct 79 Silver 21 80 LF101XF 81 Standard 82 Silver21 mit 21pol. Federleiste 83 LRC100 90 Gold mini PLUS 91 Gold (H0) PLUS 92 Gold21 PLUS 93 Standard PLUS 95 Silver PLUS 96 Silver mini PLUS 97 Silver Plux12 PLUS 98 Silver direct PLUS 99 Silver21 PLUS Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted December 2, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 2, 2019 (edited) Here's a picture from Kernow which is different again. Perhaps one of these retailers is using an old picture as the MRD matches your LH picture and the Kernow the RH. http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/23131/10321-Lenz-21-pin-Silver-Loco-Decoder I would assume the decoder with CV7=99 and CV128=14 is the latest Silver21+ decoder, and the one with CV128=2 is the older, non + version. The first release of firmware for the + version was 6. Edited December 2, 2019 by RFS Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted December 2, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 2, 2019 (edited) Your RH decoder is a current Lenz Silver21+ decoder. Here's a picture of one of mine in a Kernow Thumper. Sorry it's slightly out of focus. Seems MRD are using an old picture. Edited December 2, 2019 by RFS Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractor_37260 Posted December 2, 2019 Author Share Posted December 2, 2019 Yep your right ....old photo on MRD site I also looked it up on Lenz.de it shows as same as your photo in the thumper. So it is a Silver+ Many thanks for help sorting this out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractor_37260 Posted December 3, 2019 Author Share Posted December 3, 2019 When checking function mapping options via the Lenz manual for the 21pin Silver+ both CV7 and CV8 are shown as 99 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted December 3, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 3, 2019 18 minutes ago, tractor_37260 said: When checking function mapping options via the Lenz manual for the 21pin Silver+ both CV7 and CV8 are shown as 99 That is correct but I think it confused us both! Your older Lenz should have CV8=99 and CV7=82 and not CV7=79 as in the Lenz listing I originally posted. Its firmware level of 2 shown by CV128 is the latest version for that decoder. The new Standard+ 8-pin decoder was assigned CV7=77, but a serious problem with the firmware arose and this was quickly updated. CV7 became 79 thereafter, as my two decoders display so I assume 79 was not unused at the time. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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