Identifying Mk2 coaching stock

[Philou]

Apologies all round - I think I've answered my own question below regarding stock - with the exception of what is the corporate colour of the BSO at the rear of the train (fifth picture)? I stumbled across Paul Bartlett's site and found that the first three coaches are Mk2fs SOs. My number guesses were seemingly correct. As I can't find where to remove the topic , I've left it for the moment.

 

To add insult to injury - my old stock doesn't get as far as Mk2f ...... 2ds being the most recent .

 

 

Hello chums,

 

I was watching a video taken at Cardiff Central in early September 2019 filmed by Colin Prosser.

 

Within it was a Colas Rail Cl.37 (37421) hauling 4 x Mk2 coaches doing the Cardiff Central to Rhymney service.

 

I recognise they're Mk2s as they have the rounded ends and they're probably Mk2fs and younger, as they appear to have sealed glazing units but to be honest I don't think I would have known about the differences between Mk2a-d and Mk2f-h(?) had I not read on another thread about Mk2 stock (which I didn't bookmark unfortunately). I'm not able to easily identify them via their stock numbers as the images are blurred - save the one.

 

I'm happy to learn and if this already been done elsewhere - just point me in the right direction.

 

I'm interested in knowing what they are as I already have the loco (Bachmann 32-389) and I wondered if what I have in my Airfix/GMR/Mainline stock, might be suitable to make up a rake - apart from the last one, the BSO, as I have no idea what is the corporate colour.

 

I have assumed that the formation is 3 x SO, 1 x BSO (or is it 3 x TO?)

 

Can anyone also advise what are the white marks on the wheel treads of the coaching stock (I also saw it on some loco stock too)? Is it supposed to be a similar idea to the yellow plastic tell-tales seen on the wheel-studs of HGVs if there is slippage of some sort?

 

Here are some stills from the video - all copyright belonging to Colin Prosser:

 

37421

 

M6024?

 

M6054?

 

E6158?

 

S620 or 9620?

 

Just an additional bit of info - the formation was being 'helped' at the rear by another Cl.37 37025 'Inverness TMD'. I can't think why, as the gradients aren't THAT severe !

 

Thanking you all in advance,

 

Philip

Edited December 3, 2019 by Philou
Apologies all round.

[Flood]

The livery of the BSO at the rear is ex Anglia.

 

Strictly speaking it is 3 x TSO. Tourist Second open was a term first used by the LNER and subsequently used on BR Mk1, Mk2, Mk3a and Mk4 coaching stock. In the BR context it was used to define the difference between 4 seats across a coach (TSO) instead of 3 seats across a coach (SO).

 

SO stock was built for the Mk1 and initial Mk2 (later Mk2z) stock where is was mainly used as at-seat dining accommodation.

 

As some Mk2f First Class Opens were downgraded in the mid 1980s they became SO stock as they kept the 3 seats across the coach. They were easily distinguished from the other air-con seconds by having only 7 passenger windows instead of 8 (as per the air-con TSO stock).

 

Hope all this is of use.

Edited December 3, 2019 by Flood

[Philou]

@Flood, hi,

 

Thanks for the info. I think I probably saw a response of yours on another thread regarding Mk2s, but as I said above, I didn't bookmark it!!!

 

Regarding TSOs, I was under the mis-understanding that it was reserved for HST Mk3s as in Trailer Second Open. I had seen TSO marked as such on Hatton's site some time back for some Mk2s and didn't make the connection. There, I now have learned something. Thanks for the Anglian heads-up too. I had it in mind that the blue used by Anglian was a lighter one - that threw me too!!

 

Oh well, the loco will go back to being a general workhorse rather than on temporary passenger duties .

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

Just had a thought - I've got TSO wrong for the HST stock wrong haven't I? They're just TSs - or have I that wrong too?

 

Edited December 3, 2019 by Philou
Additional ramblings

[Davexoc]

4 hours ago, Philou said:

Can anyone also advise what are the white marks on the wheel treads of the coaching stock (I also saw it on some loco stock too)? Is it supposed to be a similar idea to the yellow plastic tell-tales seen on the wheel-studs of HGVs if there is slippage of some sort?

 

 

37421

 

M6024?

 

M6054?

 

E6158?

 

S620 or 9620?

 

Just an additional bit of info - the formation was being 'helped' at the rear by another Cl.37 37025 'Inverness TMD'. I can't think why, as the gradients aren't THAT severe !

 

To answer your remaining questions;

 

Yes the paint marks are to detect shifting tyres. I'm sure it used to be the rule that on coaching stock they were marked on the inner faces, so as not to alarm the passengers if they did creep.

 

That BSO is 9620

 

And a loco at each end is used for quick turn arounds, locations without run round loops, and trains that reverse frequently, to name a few reasons...

 

Dave

[Flood]

2 hours ago, Philou said:

 

Just had a thought - I've got TSO wrong for the HST stock wrong haven't I? They're just TSs - or have I that wrong too?

 

You're absolutely correct Philip. Trailer First and Trailer Second for HST stock. The most observant of you all will notice I stated Mk3a (i.e. loco hauled stock) on my initial reply. Mk3 was officially for the HST vehicles.

 

Edit : Re Davexoc's comment I would have thought that the BSO was 9520.

Edited December 4, 2019 by Flood

[Flood]

And this thread below may well be the one you are thinking of:

 

 

[Philou]

12 hours ago, Davexoc said:

And a loco at each end is used for quick turn arounds, locations without run round loops, and trains that reverse frequently, to name a few reasons...

 

Dave

 

I would have thought a little expensive running two 37s with just 4 coaches - I'm not sure of the actual distance between Cardiff and Rhymney - it can't be much more than 30 miles with a lot of intermediate stops. There are other videos of the same run but with a single loco in charge. I would have thought a DBSO would have been a cheaper option (in respect of non-run arounds).

 

@Flood The first number I typed in (similar to 9520) did bring up a DBSO -  I knew it wasn't the coach as it was missing the 'cab'.

 

It may well have been the thread - I can now see the difference between the 7 windows on the model and the 8 in the video stills.

 

Thank you Davexoc for the info regarding the tell-tales, as I didn't know that the tyres were capable of slippage.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[Talltim]

There's two sorts of wheels, those with a centre and a tire or rim and those that are cast in one piece, called monbloc. They have their advantages and disadvantages, tires can slip, but can be replaced once they are worn. Monobloc can't slip, but once they are worn out you have to replace the whole thing. Most modern stock seems to use monobloc wheels.

[jim.snowdon]

7 hours ago, Talltim said:

There's two sorts of wheels, those with a centre and a tire or rim and those that are cast in one piece, called monbloc. They have their advantages and disadvantages, tires can slip, but can be replaced once they are worn. Monobloc can't slip, but once they are worn out you have to replace the whole thing. Most modern stock seems to use monobloc wheels.

And most monoblock wheels are forged rather than cast, although for a long time, US railroads were inclined to the use of cast wheels on freight stock, usually with chill hardened rims. Their down side is a liability to crack and/or shed bits, leading to derailments. A particularly spectacular one involved a train containing a string of LPG cars, one of which derailed due to a sizeable chunk coming out of a cast wheel, resulting in a very large fire.

 

Jim