Bachmann 2020 Range

[Phil Parker]

35 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Not sure i’m too keen on this revised approach...

 

ive nothing to look forwards to, until its here..then ive got to scramble if I want it.. but no plan to save in advance as I don't know what to expect...a £500 EMU or a £5 accessory.

 

Its not easy for retailers to plan either.. a customer asking whats best, the shop cant give an answer.. if someone wants a mk2f.. do you refer them to Hornbys timeline and livery choices, or say a say wait for a Bachmann one that may never be made ? 

 

Maybe they too dont know whats coming until it arrives. It sounds a bit “wrenn” and their limited special releases,  All feels to me a bit like a slow sunset of retreat from the market.

 

 

 

I don't know if you've noticed, but Bachmann have been pilloried for too large a gap between announcement and arrival of models. Now you are doing the same because they wish to fix this. I think it's unlikely we'll see models appear on the shelves before anyone has heard of them. More like a year/18 month warning, not 5.

 

And no, I don't think it means they are retreating from the market, although after all the constant criticism, I wouldn't blame them leaving the UK for Canada...

[Harlequin]

1 hour ago, Phil Parker said:

 

I don't know if you've noticed, but Bachmann have been pilloried for too large a gap between announcement and arrival of models. Now you are doing the same because they wish to fix this. I think it's unlikely we'll see models appear on the shelves before anyone has heard of them. More like a year/18 month warning, not 5.

 

And no, I don't think it means they are retreating from the market, although after all the constant criticism, I wouldn't blame them leaving the UK for Canada...

People can say what they think about Bachmann or any supplier (within limits obvs.) Human nature means you're more likely to hear the negative views on any given subject. This should not be surprising or annoying...

 

Who said anything about Bachmann retreating from the UK market? Why even raise that possibility? (Edit: Sorry, I see it was mentioned above but I don't think someone in the know should be referring to it for fear of starting more rumours.)

 

Edited January 21, 2020 by Harlequin

[TomScrut]

I think the concern is whilst they have the issue at the moment of announcing stuff too early, giving only 3 months notice isn't ideal either (is this what they have said or speculation?). If it was a year or so I don't think anyone would complain, long enough to save up and plan without it being lost in the ether. And that's also how most of the other manufacturers work too as far as I am aware? It's when it's 4 or 5 years where people don't know where they stand that's the issue I think?

[brushman47544]

10 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

To quote from the letter accompanying the Combined Volume.  (my bold highlights)……

 

2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Its not easy for retailers to plan either.. a customer asking whats best, the shop cant give an answer.. if someone wants a mk2f.. do you refer them to Hornbys timeline and livery choices, or say a say wait for a Bachmann one that may never be made ? 

 

The quotes from Ron Ron Ron appear to confirm what I suspect (what "new" means). We will (still) not be getting updates on the timing of re-releases of existing models in new liveries, just "new tooling". Whilst I fully support the new approach to the timing of announcements, I really don't understand why the quarterly announcements/updates won't include ALL releases not just new tooling. An image of a livery sample, for example, may go a long way in encouraging me to pre-order. Sight unseen and I will wait, and maybe by then have bought someone else's model, taking the example mentioned by adb968008.

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, Phil Parker said:

 

I think it's unlikely we'll see models appear on the shelves before anyone has heard of them. More like a year/18 month warning, not 5.

 

Thats the first time ive seen someone in authority give some clarity on timescales.... all other posts say 3 months.

 

18 months is a fairly average headway, but do I have to assume on that basis theres no as yet new unknown tooling to surprise us until July 2021 at least ?

 

if I am not allowed to have feelings of  a slow retreat, then i’ll reword it to say.. I just feel sad about Bachmann instead.

 

Ive been a big fan of their models, but I am spending less on Bachmann than I used to, but I dont feel thats down to my changing tastes.. my spend elsewhere is up. 

One issue I see is duplication, I still like some of my Bachmann locos, despite other vendors tooling them.. but do I wait and see if Bachmann decides to do a certain livery maybe sometime whenever.. or take the bird in hand for risk of missing out ? Personally I prefer to know and wait within reason, than just be sprung a surprise... my wallet likes that too.

 

 

Edited January 21, 2020 by adb968008

[Ron Ron Ron]

24 minutes ago, brushman47544 said:

The quotes from Ron Ron Ron appear to confirm what I suspect (what "new" means). We will (still) not be getting updates on the timing of re-releases of existing models in new liveries, just "new tooling".....

....I really don't understand why the quarterly announcements/updates won't include ALL releases not just new tooling.......

To be fair, I don’t think it says that at all.

There’s a subtle difference in the wording.

They talk about unseen re-llivery and new tooling products.

“Completely new”, in this context, I take to mean all items not previously in the range, to include both re-liveries and completely new tooled models.

 

 

Ron

Edited January 21, 2020 by Ron Ron Ron

[Wickham Green]

How complete is complete ?

[brushman47544]

31 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

To be fair, I don’t think it says that at all.

There’s a subtle difference in the wording.

They talk about unseen re-llivery and new tooling products.

“Completely new”, in this context, I take to mean all items not previously in the range, to include both re-liveries and completely new tooled models.

 

 

Ron

 

21 minutes ago, Wickham Green said:

How complete is complete ?

 

Exactly. In English the word "completely" is redundant unless it is meant to distinguish between something "new"  and something "completely new". The way it's quoted, the reference to unseen re-livery and new tooling products appears to be related to the content of the new catalogue, not the quarterly announcements. Re-liveries could include a new variation of a livery that has already been produced and I don't consider that to be in the same category as an all new tooling, so not completely new.

Edited January 21, 2020 by brushman47544
Improve clarity

[Ron Ron Ron]

They refer to totally new models as “new tooling products”.

”Completely new” is only used in the context of announcements of additions to the range of available items.

 

It is inconceivable that they will not pre-announce re-livery or re-issues and somehow just sneak them out without warning.

 

 

Ron

Edited January 21, 2020 by Ron Ron Ron

[AY Mod]

For clarity I've extracted the relevant elements of Dave Haarhaus's covering letter which has been sent to Collectors' Club members along with the new 'Combined Volume' catalogue.

 

Quote

 

For 2020 we have combined our British-outline ranges in a single annual brochure for the first time, making it an ideal reference for our customers and collectors around the world. Over two hundred colour coded pages easily identify the different scales of Graham Farish, Narrow Gauge, Branchline, Scenecraft and other complementary products.

 

The Combined Volume illustrates ongoing items that are available to purchase from your local retailer, or have been included in previous catalogues for delivery at a future date. It does not include any unseen re-livery or new tooling products.

 

In response to customer and consumer feedback, we have taken steps to reduce the lead time between the announcement and release of new products. Working with our colleagues at Kader, real progress has been made in the latter half of 2019 to release many of the outstanding items announced several years ago. Last year 13 new tooling projects were released by ourselves, plus more than 200 re-liveried or modified models and a further six Limited Edition models produced exclusively for you as members of the Bachmann Collectors Club. When our non-railway ranges are taken into consideration, it is easy to see how Bachmann releases more than one new item for every day of the year and this volume shall increase as we travel through these next years.

 

We are ever mindful of the support we receive from our Collectors Club membership, and so starting this February each issue of your Bachmann Times magazine will feature a new product brochure, highlighting completely new items to be released during the following three months. New tooling announcements will no longer be illustrated by black and white photographs of the original prototype, replaced instead by pictures of our actual models.

 

While we continue to deliver items previously announced, it is anticipated that your first new product brochure will highlight fewer items than those you will receive towards the end of this year. This is quite natural as we reduce the number of outstanding items, clearing the path for an increasing quantity of exciting new models.

 

To support these quarterly product launches, we’ll be hosting a Trade Showcase event in a different part of the country each quarter and we want to make these events available to you too. As a member of the Bachmann Collectors Club we’ll be giving you an exclusive time and date to join us at each showcase event to see the display of new products up close for yourself, and discuss them with your Bachmann team – look out for full details of these events on the news pages of each Bachmann Times.

 

Our very best wishes to you,

David Haarhaus

Managing Director

 

[57xx]

58 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

Quote

In response to customer and consumer feedback, we have taken steps to reduce the lead time between the announcement and release of new products.

 

 

What a polite way of saying "Due to the whingers on RMWeb...."

Edited January 21, 2020 by 57xx

[tomparryharry]

It is an expected sort-of letter/press release that any good director would issue to keep his business in the public eye. 

 

I do expect to see lots of panniers & 56xx models, along with generic toad brake vans for years & years to come. I'll expect to see a van branded 'Ventnor West' in due course, as the geography thins out. With 800-odd panniers, and 200-odd 56xx, times a 3-yearly release, the future's looking bright. 

 

"In the year 25-25...."

 

Cheers,

Ian.

 

 

[The Johnster]

18 months or so is fine by me; in fact I’d be quite happy if models were announced the day before they are in the shops.  As one of the principal whingers on RMWeb (though I like to think I balance it with due praise), I see no need to be ashamed if my actions have led a major manufacturer to change their policy!

 

Being a major supplier to a market such as our hobby’s, where long lead times combine with instant whinging from the likes of me, criticised for announcing too soon and having to announce price increases, or of undermining other efforts if somebody else beats you to the punch, isn’t much fun, and occasionally events outside the company’s control intervene and make things worse.  I love RMWeb, but know at least one retailer who complains that it’s full of moaners!

 

Tbh, I’d be happy if someone announced a model for 2030, if I could be reasonably sure it was going to appear in 2030.  But blue box have some way to go to restore that sort of confidence from, and any further 94xx sagas will not help...

[tomparryharry]

9 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

 

 

 .....and any further 94xx sagas will not help...

 

Whatever you do, don't mention the **xx models. I very nearly did, but I think I've gotten away with it.......

[Legend]

Well damned if they do damned if they don't . Its really a no win for Bachmann . But then they got themselves in this position in the first place. Looks like they are taking steps to get out of backlog, although there's still quite a lot to get through . But I'm wondering if they've now made it more complicated than it need be  .  They used to claim that the catalogue represented items to be released in the next 12-18months  and maybe 6 or 7 years ago that was close , even if maybe 2 years fruition . Its really since Kader reorganised that there have been issues , indeed some models announced then , like the 158 and 90 are only now appearing . so its the 5 to 6 year lead times that have resulted in derision and lack of credibility.  But I'm puzzled as to why there needs to be an announcement every 3 months ,certainly for models that are 18 months away,  unless its to bolster interest in the Collectors Club . I let my membership lapse , as although a fine magazine I found it was increasingly becoming irrelevant to me . The decision not to do the calendar with paintings was really the decider  .

 

I think most folks recognising there was still a catch up would have been happy with a catalogue that showed what reliveries are coming and maybe new models planned for the next 12-18 months , in other words get back to the old position even if that meant there were no new toolings for the next couple of years.

 

No need to buy the new combined edition if its essentially just last years catalogues combined.

 

Just hope the 94XX saga is not replaced by the Rails 812 saga .2 years in ,come the end of next month, its not making much progress.

 

 

Edited January 21, 2020 by Legend

[brushman47544]

5 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

It is inconceivable that they will not pre-announce re-livery or re-issues and somehow just sneak them out without warning.

 

I agree. I am more concerned about the reliveries that have already been announced in previous catalogues but not a sight nor sound of since. Let's hope we do get progress reports/announcements on them too from now on.

[trevor7598]

I have been looking forward to Bachmann's Bulleid coaches ever since the were announced.

An update in 2020 on progress would do me fine, it's the not knowing that's frustrating.

OK they will come one day and I am sure they will be superb, hopefully they have, or are about

to leave the drawing office.

 

Wishing as always all the best to Bachmann.

[Stefen1988]

No longer (split) Catalogues? - Fail...

[John M Upton]

I want a proper catalogue, I see no point in spending money on a publication two thirds of which is completely irrelevant!

[mdvle]

9 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

I don't know if you've noticed, but Bachmann have been pilloried for too large a gap between announcement and arrival of models. Now you are doing the same because they wish to fix this. I think it's unlikely we'll see models appear on the shelves before anyone has heard of them. More like a year/18 month warning, not 5.

 

I fully understand why Bachmann are changing how they announce things.  But I have to agree, I don't think the proposed new system is all that great and adb968008 would seem to have a point that it is going to be difficult to budget for Bachmann items, which won't be great for either the customer or Bachmann (who could end up with stuff in the warehouse because people don't have the budget to buy it).

 

Nowhere have Bachmann stated that there will be a 12 to 18 month warning - I agree it can sort of be implied by the following statement (from letter posted by Andy Y):

 

"New tooling announcements will no longer be illustrated by black and white photographs of the original prototype, replaced instead by pictures of our actual models."

 

That could mean 12 to 18 months if they mean EP photos, or it could be 6 months or less if they mean final paint sample photos.  The statement is too ambiguous for us to know.

 

But that confusion only applies to new tooling.  Specifically, the following quote from the Bachmann letter posted by Andy Y:

 

"feature a new product brochure, highlighting completely new items to be released during the following three months."

 

Based on this statement, a second release of the crane, another release of the Blue Pullman, or any number of (relatively) expensive(*) items could be announced with less than 3 months before arrival - thus leading to a scramble to try and juggle the hobby budget or more likely deciding the item will need to be skipped.

 

Personally, I hope (if the above assumptions are correct) that Bachmann reconsiders otherwise they are simply going to be having unhappy customers and retailers again but for the opposite reason - items arriving too quickly.

 

* - I am not complaining about the cost of items, I think they are all acceptable prices - but some items can take a big hit of a hobby budget, particularly if that budget has already been allocated to saving up for other companies products that have allowed more lead time to save.  There is a difference between the imminent arrival of a goods wagon vs a 4-car EMU in the hit to the budget.

[Jub45565]

1 hour ago, John M Upton said:

I want a proper catalogue, I see no point in spending money on a publication two thirds of which is completely irrelevant!

 

In a world where fewer of us want to clutter the place up with paper when it is easier and quicker to find online (personal opinions, each to their own...) it may well be cheaper for you to be buying (ie for them to be producing) the thicker publication which they can print in higher volume, than it would be to both order smaller batches of several publications, and manage the supply chain of more line items that that entails...

[truffy]

12 minutes ago, mdvle said:

I don't think the proposed new system is all that great and adb968008 would seem to have a point that it is going to be difficult to budget for Bachmann items, which won't be great for either the customer or Bachmann (who could end up with stuff in the warehouse because people don't have the budget to buy it).

 

<snip>

 

Personally, I hope (if the above assumptions are correct) that Bachmann reconsiders otherwise they are simply going to be having unhappy customers and retailers again but for the opposite reason - items arriving too quickly.

 

I think a big issue is blown up out of very little, if not nothing at all.

 

If Bachmann move more towards the Hornby approach, why would the situation for planning for B purchases be any worse than for H?

[mdvle]

4 minutes ago, truffy said:

I think a big issue is blown up out of very little, if not nothing at all.

 

If Bachmann move more towards the Hornby approach, why would the situation for planning for B purchases be any worse than for H?

 

But they aren't moving towards the Hornby approach.  Hornby are making 1 announcement a year, and while a handful of items arrive quickly most of the items arrive in 6 to 18 months.

 

Bachmann (based on what has been posted) will be making 4 announcements a year, with everything (except maybe new tooling?) arriving within 3 months of announcement.

 

That is a very different approach, and much more difficult to budget for.

 

 

[truffy]

17 minutes ago, mdvle said:

But they aren't moving towards the Hornby approach.  Hornby are making 1 announcement a year, and while a handful of items arrive quickly most of the items arrive in 6 to 18 months.

 

Bachmann (based on what has been posted) will be making 4 announcements a year, with everything (except maybe new tooling?) arriving within 3 months of announcement.

 

Currently they will be making quarterly announcements, they have a lag period to cover with a number of projects still TBA in terms of delivery. As they get closer to 'parity', as it were, they may slack off the pace of announcements if the market is not supportive. That's conjecture on my part, of course, but, cynical old that I am, even I give marketing dudes'n'dudettes credit for a higher IQ than that needed to get into HR.

[Phil Parker]

The solution is simple. Bachmann should announce things 5 years ahead but only to those who want to know. These people must promise not to tell those who don't want to know until much later.

 

(Anyone thinking of a Likely Lads episode now?)