Bachmann 2020 Range

[tomparryharry]

34 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

Does that mean a Froth Fest of speculating, wish listing and general cries of "Nothing there for me" etc. etc. four times a year now?

 

Yikes....

 

"There is only something worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about."

 

Not so much froth, more a dribble.

 

A.N. Ouncement.

[daltonparva]

45 minutes ago, Legend said:

 

You forgot "why don't they do this variant ?"  Usually in relation to Compounds and Crimson

Glad to see the message is sinking in, at least with the proletariat if not the masters. Feel free to badger Bachmann at every opportunity, even if you just say "For God's sake give 'em one just to shut the moaning oiks up"

[newbryford]

1 hour ago, John M Upton said:

Does that mean a Froth Fest of speculating, wish listing and general cries of "Nothing there for me" etc. etc. four times a year now?

 

Yikes....

 

I can see it now.

 

"Dear Bachmann,

Thanks for quadrupling my workload.

 

Yours,

Andy Y and the moderating team."

[Steamport Southport]

14 hours ago, mdvle said:

 

I believe the point being made by brushman47544 is that, per Andy Y's assorted posts, the only "new" announcements at this event will be new liveries/additional runs of existing products that are expected to arrive in the 3 months following February 4th (and that Rails of Sheffield notice was posted to this thread several weeks ago).

 

There will be no announcement of new tooling items.

 

 

 

 

 

Please point out where I said there was going to be....

 

People are suggesting there is not going to be any announcement at all. That's simply not true if the information that I've been sent is to be believed.

 

 

 

Jason

[mdvle]

56 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Please point out where I said there was going to be....

 

People are suggesting there is not going to be any announcement at all. That's simply not true if the information that I've been sent is to be believed.

 

 

 

Jason

 

The problem is in the ambiguity of the phrasing, based on people's experience of the last 20 years.

 

When people just say the generic "Bachmann is announcing their new 2020 range on Feb 4th" that comes with a built in assumption of new tooling items based on historical precedence - and for a subset of people the "new range" isn't new liveries or secondary runs of existing products but the newly tooled items that in the past have been announced every year.

 

Thus the other member was simply clarifying that the ambiguous wording didn't mean new tooled items, not that you said there would be.

 

As for people suggesting there won't be anything at all, I guess it's possible some have said that though I don't recall it - to me it has been abundantly clear and has been stated many times since the letter was posted from Bachmann that the next 3 months of arriving product (consisting of new liveries/secondary runs) will be "announced" on February 4th.

[Legend]

It was slightly ambiguous , but then I think a lot of folk have looked for ambiguity in the hope there is something new .  I think Feb 4th or 5th will be same range as now plus re-liveries available in next three months .    The bit that puzzles me  is why produce a combined edition catalogue now with the existing range . Surely it would have made sense to wait until 5th Feb and have catalogue with some new re-liveries/ interest in it .  You could then have sent it to the Collectors Club members  and thereafter produce a leaflet every three months showing whats coming .  So a bit puzzled at that . But lets see what happens on 5th .

[The Stationmaster]

17 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

Posted on the Bachmann web site on Friday afternoon....

 

”New products will now be announced in the quarterly British Railway Announcements supplement that will be supplied with the Bachmann Times, the official magazine of the Bachmann Collectors Club.

The Spring 2020 Bachmann Times, complete with the first edition of British Railway Announcements, will be published at the start of February and the new products featured will all be released within three months of announcement.”

 

 

.

That is absolutely clear and indicates the way Bachmann are going with new model (and other announcements.  Firstly it signals the end of an annual announcement approach to the market leaving, I think, only Hornby in that situation.  This strikes me as a good move in what has in recent years become a very dynamic marketplace with 'manufacturers' and commissioners making wider use of key dates - usually major exhibitions - in the modelling calendar to make their announcement thus keeping a more continuous level of interest, and suspense, in their brand and what they are doing; a good move by Bachmann in my opinion.

 

Secondly it obviously reflects the new realism at Bachmann regarding bring newly announced models to the marketplace because it will reduce any potential time lag between announcement and delivery which will have a more positive impact on their reputation.  Again this strikes me as a very sensible move being absolutely fed up with seeing repetitive 'when will it arrive' posts littering some threads in RMweb - if nowhere else.

 

Thirdly it might give them some much needed wriggle room in a market where newcomers are often snapping round their heels with directly competing models.  if you happen to announce your new Class 58 at the same time as somebody else announces theirs and you are bringing it to market more quickly than your previous efforts would suggest you stand a better chance of preserving brand loyalty and, through that, sales.  But it does mean that you have to be careful about your product planning.

 

Finally having shown some considerable innovation in its ranges (e.g. introduction of narrow gauge) and some concentration on astounding levels of detail (e.g the breakdown crane) a spread of announcements can also have the effect of creating much more focused interest rather than putting something new along with everything else that's new.  Just look at the Hornby threads to see how some significant new models such as the W1 and 78XXX  have become lost among greater enthusiasm (ok - more posts) for other models in their 2020 announcements.

[Butler Henderson]

2 hours ago, Legend said:

The bit that puzzles me  is why produce a combined edition catalogue now with the existing range . Surely it would have made sense to wait until 5th Feb and have catalogue with some new re-liveries/ interest in it .  You could then have sent it to the Collectors Club members  and thereafter produce a leaflet every three months showing whats coming .  So a bit puzzled at that . But lets see what happens on 5th .

An awful lot of the existing range is yet to appear - the 5 Feb announcement could simply be what of those yet to appear items are to come out this year with the first batch in the next 3 months being... and so the combined edition catalogue remains correct.

[adb968008]

2 hours ago, Legend said:

The bit that puzzles me  is why produce a combined edition catalogue now with the existing range . Surely it would have made sense to wait until 5th Feb and have catalogue with some new re-liveries/ interest in it . 

Maybe the puzzle is that your expecting too much.
 

i’m not expecting anything new on Feb 4th, therefore the catalog is accurate..

 

On Feb 4th I’m expecting they only announce an update of deliveries of what already know.. Ive copied the relevent section of that link and copied it here...

 

I imagine feb 4th is  basically an updated version of this...

Quote

Febuary
31-146A    GCR 11F (D11/1) 62667 'Somme' BR Lined Black (Early Emblem)    £179.95
31-147DS    GCR 11F 502 'Zeebrugge' GCR Lined Green    £274.95
31-520    Class 159 3-Car DMU 159013 BR Network SouthEast (Revised)    £329.95
31-520SF    Class 159 3-Car DMU 159013 BR Network SouthEast (Revised)    £419.95

 

March
38-180C    BR 12T Ventilated Plywood Fruit Van BR Bauxite (Early)    £21.95
38-183A    BR 12T Ventilated Plywood Fruit Van BR Bauxite (Late) [W]    £24.95
391-029    Baldwin 10-12-D Tank Glyn Valley Tramway Lined Black    £154.95

 

April
32-480    Class 40 Disc Headcode D248 BR Green (Late Crest)    £179.95
35-500    Class 117 3-Car DMU BR Green (Speed Whiskers)    £309.95
35-501    Class 117 3-Car DMU BR Blue & Grey    £309.95
35-525    Class 121 Single-Car DMU BR Green (Speed Whiskers)    £149.95
35-526    Class 121 Single-Car DMU BR Blue & Grey    £149.95
35-527    Class 121 Single-Car DMU BR Network SouthEast (Revised)    £149.95
391-030    Baldwin 10-12-D Tank No. 4 Snailbeach District Rly Black [W]    £169.95
391-031DS    Baldwin 10-12-D Tank 590 Welsh Highland Railway Lined Maroon    £244.95

 

My guess is anything more would be an unexpected surprise.

 

 

Edited January 27, 2020 by adb968008

[Fireline]

On 27/01/2020 at 19:18, adb968008 said:

 

I imagine feb 4th is  basically an updated version of this...

 

 

 

 

 

Yep, your quoted section looks perfect for Bachmann. Not once does it mention which YEAR these will arrive....

[Paul.Uni]

1 hour ago, Fireline said:

 

Yep, your quoted section looks perfect for Bachmann. Not once does it mention which YEAR these will arrive....

That list comes from this thread, which was started by me.

As I had put 'to Sep 2020' in the thread title I did not see the point of adding the year next to each month.

 

The page (which is no longer available) that I got the info from on the Bachmann website did list the month and year for the planned release date, for those models that did have one.

[PMP]

On 27/01/2020 at 17:35, The Stationmaster said:

Firstly it signals the end of an annual announcement approach to the market leaving, I think, only Hornby in that situation.  

Oxford too have just the one announcement date currently, that usually being day one, London Toy Fair.

[The Stationmaster]

19 hours ago, PMP said:

Oxford too have just the one announcement date currently, that usually being day one, London Toy Fair.

Quite agree Paul but as they area relatively minor player (albeit rather good at left of field) I left them out - and waited to see who would correct me    

[PMP]

Apologies if it came across as a correction.

[Revolution Mike]

On 25/01/2020 at 10:53, TomScrut said:

One thing that I aren't sure they consider other than marking up, is £/cm when it comes to wagons. I.e. how much it costs to build a decent sized train. I bought 3 pairs of Dapol GBRF MJAs at £38 each (discounted). So I got a 6 wagon train for £114, but would have been £150 RRP.

 

Now whilst I haven't seen them with my own eyes the GBRF JNA-Ts are £209.99 for a pack of 4. 

 

I think that if you are going to make those sorts of comparison then you need a bit of context - you are comparing a discounted price with MSRP.  Our JNAs in GBRf are exclusive to Kernow (other liveries were available from us at a considerably lower price for pre-orders). Perhaps more importantly is that we tooled 4 different variations of JNA (9 or 11 ribs, door or no door) with all the different underframe detail of each variant.

 

The Dapol wagons are fantastic value (I've got some of the N gauge version), but you're not really comparing like with like.

 

Cheers Mike

[Legend]

8 minutes ago, red death said:

 

I think that if you are going to make those sorts of comparison then you need a bit of context - you are comparing a discounted price with MSRP.  Our JNAs in GBRf are exclusive to Kernow (other liveries were available from us at a considerably lower price for pre-orders). Perhaps more importantly is that we tooled 4 different variations of JNA (9 or 11 ribs, door or no door) with all the different underframe detail of each variant.

 

The Dapol wagons are fantastic value (I've got some of the N gauge version), but you're not really comparing like with like.

 

Cheers Mike

 

I do wonder if Hornby introduced a modern hopper or two in its Railroad range if they couldn't clean up here . I know the Bachmann models are top spec with many separately fitted parts but I'm sure many people would settle for something simpler and lower cost, enabling them to build a longer train . Seems to me a logical expansion of Hornbys 66 market.

[Revolution Mike]

28 minutes ago, Legend said:

 

I do wonder if Hornby introduced a modern hopper or two in its Railroad range if they couldn't clean up here . I know the Bachmann models are top spec with many separately fitted parts but I'm sure many people would settle for something simpler and lower cost, enabling them to build a longer train . Seems to me a logical expansion of Hornbys 66 market.

 

Isn't there already an HAA in Hornby's Railroad range? 

 

Working out what level of simplicity and price is the holy grail that would be most acceptable and please the most people is the holy grail for most manufacturers! More detail in tooling doesn't cost make much difference to the cost (unless you need new tools or different materials), though lots of separately fitted parts does add costs. The other massive influence on cost is the size of the production run (or your amortisation policy ie how many doo-daas do you split the tooling cost over).

[Legend]

15 minutes ago, red death said:

 

Isn't there already an HAA in Hornby's Railroad range? 

 

Working out what level of simplicity and price is the holy grail that would be most acceptable and please the most people is the holy grail for most manufacturers! More detail in tooling doesn't cost make much difference to the cost (unless you need new tools or different materials), though lots of separately fitted parts does add costs. The other massive influence on cost is the size of the production run (or your amortisation policy ie how many doo-daas do you split the tooling cost over).

 

No I'm thinking of the big bogie Hoppers like HHA  , HKAs . These don't look like they need a lot of separately fitted details but are priced very high by Bachmann.  I'm sure a Railroad Version of these would go down well.

 

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, Legend said:

 

I do wonder if Hornby introduced a modern hopper or two in its Railroad range if they couldn't clean up here . I know the Bachmann models are top spec with many separately fitted parts but I'm sure many people would settle for something simpler and lower cost, enabling them to build a longer train . Seems to me a logical expansion of Hornbys 66 market.

I suspect that in their preseent state if Hornby thought they could make more money out of big modern hopper wagons than doing steampunk or the Rocket they would probably have done it   (although I often wonder if they really do think that way?)

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, red death said:

 

Isn't there already an HAA in Hornby's Railroad range? 

 

Working out what level of simplicity and price is the holy grail that would be most acceptable and please the most people is the holy grail for most manufacturers! More detail in tooling doesn't cost make much difference to the cost (unless you need new tools or different materials), though lots of separately fitted parts does add costs. The other massive influence on cost is the size of the production run (or your amortisation policy ie how many doo-daas do you split the tooling cost over).

 

i know the comment wasnt intentional, but that line is typical of whats wrong with understanding of “modern image”.

Theres nothing modern about a HAA wagon, its extinct on britains mainlines, for nearly a decade. A class 66 and a HAA is no more relevant to a teenage enthusiast on a train station today than it would be presenting an 8f with an unfitted 16t mineral wagon to a teenage enthusiast on a platform in 1975... its historical.

 

If Hornby has any care or interest in future modellers of the hobby, Its staff have got to grab a camera, leave the office and stand on a Network rail platform instead of a preserved railway platform, otherwise in 3-5 years time, “Built by BR” will be history, their “modern” range will only consist of a few high speed types.. Azuma, 395, Pendolino a 67 and an aging railroad 66..

 

 

 

 

Edited January 30, 2020 by adb968008

[TomScrut]

2 hours ago, red death said:

 

I think that if you are going to make those sorts of comparison then you need a bit of context - you are comparing a discounted price with MSRP.  Our JNAs in GBRf are exclusive to Kernow (other liveries were available from us at a considerably lower price for pre-orders). Perhaps more importantly is that we tooled 4 different variations of JNA (9 or 11 ribs, door or no door) with all the different underframe detail of each variant.

 

The Dapol wagons are fantastic value (I've got some of the N gauge version), but you're not really comparing like with like.

 

Cheers Mike

 

I did say the RRP too!

 

In fairness I am thinking of buying a JNA with lamp to go on the end as they have been like that in the wild.

[TomScrut]

6 hours ago, adb968008 said:

 

i know the comment wasnt intentional, but that line is typical of whats wrong with understanding of “modern image”.

Theres nothing modern about a HAA wagon, its extinct on britains mainlines, for nearly a decade. A class 66 and a HAA is no more relevant to a teenage enthusiast on a train station today than it would be presenting an 8f with an unfitted 16t mineral wagon to a teenage enthusiast on a platform in 1975... its historical.

 

If Hornby has any care or interest in future modellers of the hobby, Its staff have got to grab a camera, leave the office and stand on a Network rail platform instead of a preserved railway platform, otherwise in 3-5 years time, “Built by BR” will be history, their “modern” range will only consist of a few high speed types.. Azuma, 395, Pendolino a 67 and an aging railroad 66..

 

 

 

 

 

I agree. Whilst I think the 60, 59, HST and 90 will probably be around for a bit more I do get your point. And TBH I don't really count the 59, 66 and 90 as I'd be after Dapol, Hattons and Bachmann for those three given the Hornby one is railroad.

 

Not much in the way if new locos to have a crack at, but loads of new (ish) multiple units to do. 397, 745/755, 380, 385, 345, 710, 700. All that have a lot of time left, obviously there are loads of multiple units but I'd probably go for brand new ones if I was choosing one to make.

[No Decorum]

6 hours ago, adb968008 said:

 

i know the comment wasnt intentional, but that line is typical of whats wrong with understanding of “modern image”.

Theres nothing modern about a HAA wagon, its extinct on britains mainlines, for nearly a decade. A class 66 and a HAA is no more relevant to a teenage enthusiast on a train station today than it would be presenting an 8f with an unfitted 16t mineral wagon to a teenage enthusiast on a platform in 1975... its historical.

 

If Hornby has any care or interest in future modellers of the hobby, Its staff have got to grab a camera, leave the office and stand on a Network rail platform instead of a preserved railway platform, otherwise in 3-5 years time, “Built by BR” will be history, their “modern” range will only consist of a few high speed types.. Azuma, 395, Pendolino a 67 and an aging railroad 66..

 

 

 

 

Nice edit to eliminate “train station”. 

 

As for “modern image”, the term has grown over the years to mean something slightly different from its literal meaning. Before modern image, locomotives were steam, continuous brakes were vacuum and most goods trains did not have continuous brakes. In contrast, modern image is taken to mean diesel or electric (especially overhead) traction, air brakes and continuous brakes on goods trains, which were and are mostly block trains. There’s no cut-off point, such that continuously braked, block trains could be steam hauled and some diesels had steam heating and vacuum brakes.

 

You are far from alone in your dislike of the term “modern image”. It is, however, frequently used to mark the time after the railways went through a radical change, many years ago now.

 

Perhaps “present day” or “current” might better describe what you’re aiming at.

[adb968008]

“Post privatisation” is the term I would use.

BABR is another way of looking at it...

 

Built After British Rail.

 

[Steamport Southport]

I love the term Modern Image. Just that most people use it wrong....

 

It was coined by CJF to differentiate between green era and the new era which many now call "Corporate". The proper term for that was Corporate Identity. They even had a manual.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Corporate_Identity_Manual

 

It's a bit like calling something Art Deco. It's a specific term which is misused.

 

 

 

 

Jason