hartleymartin Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 Hi everyone. I've made a good start with the laser-cutting design work, but now I need to look at etched brass components. I already have a guide to artwork which states to use black for metal, red for half-etch and white for etch through. I'd like to know what sort of width I need for fold lines and what size half-etch circle to use to form rivets punched through from the read. I'm working in 7mm scale. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted December 5, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 5, 2019 I would suggest that you give your prospective etcher a call, as I believe that each has different criteria and it will also depend on the thickness of the metal, generally the thicker the metal the wider the line. I have a couple of projects on the go, but not got that far yet and I doubt that I will progress uuntil the new year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Reichert Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 I half etch the surface to leave rivets standing out. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicktoix Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 Have a look at the artwork guide at www.ppdltd.com. Half etching to have rivets standing out implies overlays and is not always feasible or necessary. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted December 5, 2019 Author Share Posted December 5, 2019 The etches are going to be used to represent strapping and corner plates on wagons going onto laser-cut plywood bodies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Reichert Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Nicktoix said: Have a look at the artwork guide at www.ppdltd.com. Half etching to have rivets standing out implies overlays and is not always feasible or necessary. Nick Not in my case. Andy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicktoix Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 6 hours ago, hartleymartin said: The etches are going to be used to represent strapping and corner plates on wagons going onto laser-cut plywood bodies. In which case etching to have the rivets stand out is the easiest way to go. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted December 6, 2019 Author Share Posted December 6, 2019 Yes, but I need to put in a half-etch from the rear for fold lines for the corner plates. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down_Under Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 Hey Martin, This are a little bit old and some a little out of date but the basic concepts are there. White* - etch all the way through Black* - solid full etch Blue/Cyan - Half etch rear Red - Half etch front * depends on the etcher - best to check The PPD in the UK have some really good guides (attached). I do have a question of my own - do etchers want it still split into layers (i.e. back and a front) or just a single flat image? Introduction To Metal Etching.pdf Metal Etching Principles and Rules.pdf Etch Drawing Preparation.pdf 2019-Drawing-Dimensions-Tags-1.pdf 2019-ARTWORK-GUIDE-1.pdf 2019-Metal-Thickness-Selection-Guide-V1.pdf 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisH-UK Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 Based on experience gained with my own first-etch I would suggest fold lines as wide as the material is thick. Others with more experience may be able to fine tune that req. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted December 6, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 6, 2019 5 hours ago, hartleymartin said: Yes, but I need to put in a half-etch from the rear for fold lines for the corner plates. Half etch dimples for push through rivets, which, IMHO, always look better than the half etched version. Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted December 6, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 6, 2019 7 hours ago, Down_Under said: The PPD in the UK have some really good guides (attached). I do have a question of my own - do etchers want it still split into layers (i.e. back and a front) or just a single flat image? I use PPD. They will accept whatever you send them so long as it's in a format they can work with, the more work they have to do the more the set up cost is though. I send them a completed front and back set of artwork in black and white to keep the set up cost down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 8 hours ago, hartleymartin said: Yes, but I need to put in a half-etch from the rear for fold lines for the corner plates. No you don't. Try putting tabs where the bend in the corner plate is going to be as a guide. Full sized corner plates had a slightly rounded corner due to them being bent up from thickish metal plates. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted December 6, 2019 Author Share Posted December 6, 2019 Here is the artwork for the wagon as a jpg file. The etches are off to the bottom-right. The bulk of the wagon is to be laser-cut in 1.5mm and 2.5mm plywood. The etches are only for various items of strapping, corner-plates, etc. I still need to draw up the support brackets and the coupling hook plate. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted December 6, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 6, 2019 Without having a scale I'd wonder that there isn't enough tolerance between parts, Your prefered supplier would be able to tell you. I'm guessing you're going for half etched holes which can be punched out to form rivets Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted December 6, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 6, 2019 I would advise paying a little attention to how the tags connecting the parts are to be cut - I put all tags where they can be reached with snips. The tags in the middle will be very difficult to cut without distorting the parts - just leave most of them out, most etches have far too many tags. If this is just strapping I would suggest half etched leaving the rivets standing out - it's extremely difficult to press out rivets in narrow strips without distortion. You can draw bolt heads and nuts as square or hexagon shape if you want to, for half etch rivets in .015" material I use a radius of about .23mm. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted December 6, 2019 Author Share Posted December 6, 2019 2 hours ago, chris p bacon said: Without having a scale I'd wonder that there isn't enough tolerance between parts, Your prefered supplier would be able to tell you. I'm guessing you're going for half etched holes which can be punched out to form rivets It is an O gauge wagon. For reference, the top of the wagon side is 105mm long. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted December 6, 2019 Author Share Posted December 6, 2019 Although built to a different diagram, the hardware is largely the same on this 3-plank wagon. Mostly square-heads and nuts, though later on hexagon would have been used. I have thought about just etching through-holes and inserting nbw castings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiritofprogress Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Martin, I'm here is Aus as well. I do N scale wagons etc. using my laser and brass etching. My N scale VR QR wagon is made from 0.8mm 3ply and the strapping is 0.3mm card. www.spiritdesign.com.au Cheers Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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