Southern Region loco/emu collection advice

[SteveyDee68]

I have to admit that I have been somewhat ... tempted ... recently and my small collection of locos has expanded exponentially (almost).

 

I now have the following:

 

Terrier 0-6-0 (1 x Hornby, 1 x Dapol)

Q class 0-6-0 (Hornby)

C class 0-6-0 (Bachmann)

Drummond 700 0-6-0 (Hornby)

N15 4-6-0 (black) (Hornby)

ex SR N Class 2-6-0 31862 (Bachmann)

Rebuilt Battle of Britain 4-6-2 (Hornby)

Rebuilt Merchant Navy 4-6-2 (Hornby)

Class 33 diesel x2 (1xLima, 1 x Heljan)

Class 70 electro diesel (Hornby)

Class 08 (Bachmann)

Class 06 (Heljan)

Class 04 (Bachmann)

USA 0-6-0 tank (Bachmann)

 

There are a few more shunting locos (sentinels, pugs, assorted “pugbashes”, Triang dock shunters etc) but my interest is obviously Southern based!

 

Currently bidding (on The Bay of Fleas) on a Bachmann Standard 4MT 2-6-4 tank loco, and a (Bachmann) Lord Nelson tender loco. Eyes peeled for a Heljan B2 tank loco but...

 

What RTR locos should I pursue to “complete” my Southern Region BR loco collection? I just know I am missing a couple of locos but am not knowledgeable enough to know which ones!

 

Locos I can think of are:

P Class 0-6-0

B2 0-4-0

West Country Class 4-6-2

Battle of Britain 4-6-2

 

Steve

 

PS

I have a 4 car and 2 car electric set from Bachmann, plus their PLV - other than Hornby BIL, what else should I look for?

[Oldddudders]

Your collection is impressive - but which part of Southern Region are you seeking to model? Going back to 1923 and Grouping, the Southern Railway was formed from three distinct companies - SECR, LBSCR and LSWR. By the time 1948 came and Southern Region was created, the Pre-Grouping locos were in many cases still mainly working on their former District.

 

So 700s seldom ventured far off the South Western, and Terriers in revenue service were few and far between off the Brighton. There were only 8 ex-SECR P Class, and so they weren't widespread.

 

N15s on the Central District had 6-wheel tenders. 

 

Classes 33 and 73 (not 70) were 1960s creations, of course, and by the time electro-diesels were about, the South Eastern had no steam. Furthermore it was some years before the later,  JB version of the ED appeared, and I think that is the version modelled. The B2 0-4-0 is presumably actually B4, so mainly South Western, and seldom seen on a main line, being a dock tank. The MLV - not PLV - was used mainly on the South Eastern, but only after steam had disappeared.

 

If you are just a collector, then you are doing fine, but if you seek to make a plausible Southern Region layout, some of your locos might be hard to justify, wherever you locate it.  

[Nearholmer]

Somewhere just outside Victoria, in the Battersea tangle might just about accommodate all those types, some flying by on viaducts above, or in cuttings below.
 

There was a milk depot in there somewhere that was accessed by an appallingly sharp curve, for which all the odd small locos, including the P and the B4, were used as shunters at various times.

 

based on this photo, the shunt seems to involve traversing Stewart’s Lane carriage washer! https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2663029

 

Such a location opens up possibilities of a vast array of SR motive power, plus GWR, LMS and evening, very rarely, LNER locos.

 

This is good background reading https://www.ucl.ac.uk/bartlett/architecture/sites/bartlett/files/49.7._railway_chapter.pdf

 

 

Edited December 5, 2019 by Nearholmer

[Right Away]

As you are contemplating a Standard 4 tank, it looks as though your interest is in the BR period. You could therefore include both versions of the Standard 4 tender locos, Standard 5, Ivatt "Teddy Bear/Mickey Mouse" and Fairburn tanks.

Unrebuilt Merchant Navy, Maunsell S15 and an ex-LBSCR E4 tank could be included.

With renumbering and renaming, a "Britannia" might be added as could a 9F at a push if Fawley oil trains were to be considered.

 

EMUs: 2 HAL, the forthcoming HAL/BIL hybrid and 5 BEL

[Nearholmer]

If you are prepared to move beyond r-t-r, the list becomes longer.

Also, going back to r-t-r, has anyone mentioned the LMS big diesels, 10800, the SR big diesels, the 1948 Locomotive exchanges (Mallard running out of Waterloo iirc).

 

The limiting factors might be the size of your wallet, the size of your layout room, and the tolerance of the rest of the family!

 

 

 

 

 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

13 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Somewhere just outside Victoria, in the Battersea tangle might just about accommodate all those types, some flying by on viaducts above, or in cuttings below...

Given that all the Southern constituents served London, that's always going to be the optimal location if you want as much variety in traction classes as possible. From the delicious choice in RTR the few that get squeezed out are aged remnants wheezing away on far away country branchline operations such as the O2 0-4-4T, Beattie 2-4-0WT and Adams 4-4-2T. But venerable old stagers from the extensive SR tank loco supply like Drummond's elegant M7 0-4-4T, and for all I know Wainwright's H 0-4-4T, are eligible.

 

Not mentioned  yet among larger Southern steamers, the Brighton's H2 Atlantic, and the announced Wainwright D class 4-4-0.  These would be very high on my list if I wasn't stably rooted in North London. And the ex-GNR/LNER visitor you need is the J50 0-6-0T, working cross London freight into BR(SR).

[Robin Verth]

I grew up in Hampton it was on the old LSWR, in those days just outside London the daily pick up go goods was worked by ex LSWR engines of the following classes,  0395, 700, M7, 02 as these were withdrawn Southern engines replaced them, these being N & Q1, later joined by 2MT 2-6-2T's of both LMS & BR origins. Other classes recorded were S15 these were on the weedkiller trains, G16 & T9. Other engines include one of the Southern Regions 5700 0-6-0PT's, other loco's recorded were LMS 3F, 4F & 2P.

There were 2 coal concentration depots on the Chessington branch, 8F's passed each other on the Southern as the event took place at 04.00 there are no photos of it, in 1936 the London County  Council hired P Class 1555 this spent some of this time on the Horton Light Railway, the exchange sidings were at Ewell West meaning it got onto the old LSWR for a short distance, it was also there for part of the war working an anti aircraft train.

As said most pre grouping locos remained on their original lines, when the Southern was formed they did a number of tria trials to see the performance and running costs, and as consequence the ex LSWR classes were adopted for the SR N15 & S15 also the T9's were selected to supplement and replace older classes on the other divisions. The only duty that ex LBSCR locks were preferred for was moving electric multiple units as being Westinghouse fitted they could work the EMU's brakes.

Edited December 6, 2019 by Robin Verth
Spelling mistakes

[SteveyDee68]

Wow! Nearholmer and Oldddudders took the time to answer my obviously ill informed query - thank you, gents, as having read so many of your posts and marvelled at your modelling skills/expertise I am slightly awe struck!

 

Oldddudders you are quite right, I was thinking of the B4 Dock Tank, but shied away from it due to an echo of one of Spike Milligan's war stories about a ship with that call sign ringing in my ears and convincing me that I had misremembered the loco type designation! Might explain why my internet searches are drawing a blank!

 

What I have learnt in two posts is that to create a credible SR layout I need a little more focus than simply "did it run on the Southern region at some point?"

 

Boat trains, the channel ports, Weymouth, Portsmouth, Dover Marine, Southampton are all major interests, so when I finally build my layout it will have to be freelance with a really big Rule 1 sign on it! I don't think I can be disciplined enough to create "credible"!

 

Since starting this post, a veritable feast of information has appeared. Thank you, one and all for your input. I had forgotten the Radials tank engines, for example, but for now I shall buy some relevant books, do some research and keep my fingers crossed that Santa brings me a Bachmann 45 tons breakdown crane!

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

11 hours ago, SteveyDee68 said:

...Boat trains, the channel ports, Weymouth, Portsmouth, Dover Marine, Southampton are all major interests, so when I finally build my layout it will have to be freelance with a really big Rule 1 sign on it! I don't think I can be disciplined enough to create "credible"!...

We can fix this. All that is required is a rewrite of Anglo-Saxon history. Wessex truly dominates the formation of a unified Anglo-Saxon England (perhaps Mercia took a direct hit from a gigantic pagan horde and they fought each other to a standstill, then the survivors all got the plague following a general famine, and Mercia was so depopulated that it was not 'the big one' of the heptarchy and thus proto-Englaland). So the capital remains  at present Winchester, which to give it more Wessexness is titled Ventabury, and the resulting capital city conurbation encompasses the huge commercial and naval centres around the south coast harbours that are currently Southhampton and Portsmouth. The railways are there, VLC&DR, V&SWR, VB&SCR.  Take it away maestro...