Red Bunker on a Fairburn 4MT

[Aire Head]

This photograph recently cropped up on Facebook showing Fairburn 4MT Tank 42184 at Bradford Exchange in 1966.

 

Unusually the top of the bunker appears to have been painted red. 

 

There has been some speculation that it could be rust but this doesn't seem right to me.

 

Perhaps someone could shed some light on this?

[russ p]

I wonder if it got damaged and was repaired and given a coat of red lead, but why it's got two overhead line stickers on the paint as well as a overhead line plaque is anyone's guess 

[pH]

I think it is rust. There are traces of the black paint at the top left corner and the top centre of the red area - it isn't a uniform coat of paint or red lead.

[The Johnster]

I think it's rust as well, but I'm at a loss to explain the reason for it being restricted just to the top of the bunker rear.

[Paul80]

The who loco looks to be a rusty wreck, big question would be why is there do much of the back panel still black when the rest of the loco is rust red?

[pH]

25 minutes ago, Paul80 said:

The who loco looks to be a rusty wreck, big question would be why is there do much of the back panel still black when the rest of the loco is rust red?

 

That's not rust red - it's just standard 'end-of-steam' grot.

[Aire Head]

The reason I don't beleive it is rust is the colour appears to be wrong.

 

I'd expect the rust to be closer in colour to the Tangerine Station sign.

 

It almost looks more like red primer to me.

[JimC]

And can we guarantee that is original colour film, and it hasn't been colourised?

 

[The Johnster]

Good points, and the lighting of the photo is very much 'sun directly behind the camera' on what looks like a winter day with very strong sunlight, which further messes up the perception of the exact colour.  Rust varies immensely in colour from dark brown to bright orange depending on the ferrous content of the metal, the conditions under which it oxidised, and the amount of time it has been going on; it is not always bright orange like a North Eastern Region sign.

 

Describing the loco as a rusty wreck is a bit of a misunderstanding of the situation as well IMHO; she's certainly filthy but the muck is mostly brake block dust and the livery is still there beneath it, and she seems steam tight and in good condition generally.  Appearances can be deceptive!  A dirty loco can run, often quite well, and a rusty wreck can't.  Chances are she's been on jobs that required heavy braking in bad weather, and the brake block dust has been deposited on the sides of the tanks and bunker, not to mention the cab windows, but not on the bunker rear.  This explains the different colouring of the bunker rear, but not why the top foot or so is rusty! 

Edited December 6, 2019 by The Johnster

[melmerby]

I would expect, if it were rust, to have an uneven lower boundary, not a well defined cut-off point.

[melmerby]

25 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

Good points, and the lighting of the photo is very much 'sun directly behind the camera' on what looks like a winter day with very strong sunlight,

The loco and platform (8) face approximately south.

The elevation of the sun looks at least 45 degrees and is coming from the South West, so I would suggest definitely not winter.

 

Today for instance it only reached 14 degrees at midday (direct from the South)

 

Edit: I would suggest around April or August

Edited December 6, 2019 by melmerby

[Trog]

I would suggest that the straight bottom cut off line is due to what is behind the sheeting changing at that point so that the amount of condensation on the surface of the metal changes, and hence the speed at which it rusts.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

17 hours ago, russ p said:

I wonder if it got damaged and was repaired and given a coat of red lead, but why it's got two overhead line stickers on the paint as well as a overhead line plaque is anyone's guess.

The well defined bottom edge of the rust patch supports the repair idea. Could it be a taken from a withdrawn and rusting class member simply not yet (if ever to be) painted, with the OHL warning plates already in situ? (There's only about 20% of the class still working by the end of 1966, so taking pieces off withdrawn locos awaiting towing to their last destination would be possible.)

[TheSignalEngineer]

1 hour ago, JimC said:

And can we guarantee that is original colour film, and it hasn't been colourised?

 

I doubt if it has because I think it unlikeky that anyone doing that would go to the extent of having correctly coloured lamps for a station pilot.

[Mallard60022]

Junior MOS given the task of fitting the signs/stickers. Given a pot of primer as the Foreman Fitter thought a red background would look smart, and told to clean the space, brush on a bit of primer (look at 'top of red' for end of brush stroke marks) and then attach the stickers. Started carefully with a straight edge across the bottom of the space and held it there as he painted, then chucked that and CBA to fill in the top against the curve, got bored after he had carefully positioned the signs/stickers, or had no time left after fag breaks?  Probably kept him out of the way for a whole shift if he was canny. 

A.S. Kiver

 

Edited December 6, 2019 by Mallard60022

[doilum]

I would be very confident that this is a never to be finished repair. Those of a certain age will remember being given  a brush and a can of "red lead" and told to give a job a lick and a promise. In time, "red oxide" became the go to primer and was even available in the new fangled rattle can. Along the top edge it is clear where the rust is already eating through so I suspect the job never even got a second coat of the red stuff. Given the date, the poor loco was already on borrowed time.

[doilum]

8 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

Junior MOS given the task of fitting the signs/stickers. Given a pot of primer as the Foreman Fitter thought a red background would look smart, and told to clean the space, brush on a bit of primer (look at 'top of red' for end of brush stroke marks) and then attach the stickers. Started carefully with a straight edge across the bottom of the space and held it there as he painted, then chucked that and CBA to fill in the top against the curve, got bored after he had carefully positioned the signs/stickers, or had no time left after fag breaks?  Probably kept him out of the way for a whole shift if he was canny. 

A.S. Kiver

 

You beat me to it!

[Aire Head]

The date of the photograph provided is the 23/10/1966

 

The layer of brake dust grime is very common for trains using Bradford Exchange due to the 1/50 down into the Station.

 

The photograph is one of a number of colour photographs posted by the same person. All of them are from the Bradford Area and around the winter of 1966 so it is definitely the original image and not a colourised one.

[Aire Head]

I also notice that if you look at the rest of the back of the bunker it looks as though some of the black paint is wearing off revealing a similar colour underneath so Inclined to think it could in fact be primer.

 

It's the sort of thing that if you modelled it people would say it never happened!

[Steamport Southport]

Why would they repair a locomotive that had weeks to go? There were scraplines full of them. By that date they wouldn't even waste red lead on it. It was one kept for a while mainly for carriage warming duties I believe. Probably used for a few pilot duties as well. The rest of the survivors were LMR locomotives mainly bankers on the WCML.

 

It's good old fashioned rust and like virtually every locomotive in the last few months of steam. No hinderance to performance.

 

As for colour of rust. look at photos from Barry scrapyard in the 1960s (before people started painting them). Exactly the same colour. Certainly not tangerine or strange hues of pink as I've seen before on models.

 

 

 

Jason

[doilum]

They repaired it because it was needed. An afternoon and a fivers worth of steel meant that they were not a loco short on the rosta.

[Pandora]

Those 2-6-4T  workings  between Bradford to Leeds may have been the last scheduled  passenger workings for tank locomotives under BR,  the gradients in and out of Bradford are fearsome,  is it possible the coal in the bunker may have caught fire (stray chimney sparks) and singed off the paint?

[The Johnster]

The Lymington Branch service, with BR standard 4MT 2-6-4Ts, may have lasted a little while into 1967, but this was certainly the last use of tank locos on express trains, including the the Yorkshire Pullman.

Edited December 7, 2019 by The Johnster

[doilum]

An alternative narrative. Elf&Safety demand immediate application of new overhead warning stickers. Junior is tasked with cleaning off the bunker and is let loose a steam lance. This removes all the grime and most of the paint. Senior is not impressed and gives junior an hour to get some red lead otherwise he gets parts of his anatomy painted. Eventually stickers are applied, loco is up to pressure and driver arrives too start his shift.

[PenrithBeacon]

I think the assumption when folk see such a photo is that the engine is rotting. My experience of the sixties is that this is actually a total lack of cleanliness, the rust colour comes from the cast iron brake blocks used on most vehicles then.

Cheers