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Do Olivia's Trains actually WANT to sell trains??


Art Dent
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Hi Folks,

 

Just wondering if anyone else has had a recent negative experience with Olivia's Trains or if i am simply unlucky and caught someone having an 'off day'?

 

I am looking for a sound-fitted Fowler 4F in OO-gauge (hopefully weathered).  Olivia's seem to have a Hornby 4F TTS in stock - but their website is confusing (at least to me) so I sent an email enquiry.

 

What I didn't understand was that the loco - described as "Hornby R3460TTS 4F 44198 BR Black Late Crest", was priced as follows:  'Analogue £115, Standard Decoder £143 and £256 for Olivia's ESU V4 Sound Fitted.  My query asked what would be supplied if I ordered the £115 loco - since the description was for a TTS model and TTS decoders don't support analogue running.

 

Their reply said that they offer the model with the sound decoder removed - but nowhere on the page does it seem to be stated that the £115 Analogue option equates to this 'sound decoder removed' option.

 

A further TWO emails asking them to clarify have simply been ignored.

 

I know that they are under no obligation to sell to me (or indeed anyone) but I found the tone of their initial reply curt to say the least (and it certainly didn't do anything to answer my query).

 

Are Olivia's Trains so successful a retailer that they can ignore a genuine query regarding a model for potential purchase and operate a 'There's plenty more fish in the sea' policy ?

 

I have bought models from them before but this response (or rather, the lack of it) is completely baffling.

 

Just wondered what the experience of other forum members was regarding this trader.

 

Art

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I found one - 

 This thread seemed to have a mix of reviews.  Are there any others?

 

Seems a shame to lose another retailer but if they don't care about potential customers, what conclusion does it lead to if you make a purchase and experience a problem?

 

Would be a minimal loss if they have a 'don't care' attitude.

 

Art

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2 minutes ago, jonny777 said:

Sorry if I am not understanding this thread, but are you saying that if you purchase nothing from them they will automatically go bankrupt, and cease trading? 

 

:devil:

 

 

 

If nobody does, then yes, which I think is the thrust of OP's comment?

 

Mike.

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1 minute ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Probably what Gerald Ratner thought!

 

Mike.

 

 

Possibly, but unless the company boss actually comes out and says "our products are crap", I think they might be ok. 

 

 

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Bought a Loco off them via ebay listed as a runner . On arrival nothing , when I took it apart there were no wires between the motor and the wheels!! Message via ebay  sent which was ignored twice, due to the cheap price I kept the loco, and posted a suitable neutral feedback  saying what had occured. No response other than blocking me on from bidding on any other sales from them, that wasnt a problem, because I wont be using them again anyway !!. Should have been negative !!.

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31 minutes ago, jonny777 said:

Sorry if I am not understanding this thread, but are you saying that if you purchase nothing from them they will automatically go bankrupt, and cease trading? 

 

:devil:

 

 

 

No,  what I am saying is that I am in the market to purchase a sound-fitted Fowler 4F.

 

Olivia's seem to have the Hornby TTS version in stock.

 

I was puzzled by their webpage:

 

Link: https://www.oliviastrains.com/trains/mt/Hornby-steam/Hornby-steam-4f-class/Hornby-r3460tts-4f-44198-br-black-late-crest/

 

 . . . so made an enquiry by email.

 

Their reply (from a chap called Neil) (1) didn't answer my specific question and (2) was rather rude (I can post an excerpt below if required).

 

I sent a further email shortly after receiving their initial reply - seeking further clarification - which was then ignored.

 

This puzzles me as it is a genuine enquiry.  Somebody, somewhere, will get my order but I'm not going to order a sound-fitted 4F from company through a website where I ask a reasonable question only to have (1) my original question ignored and (2) the reply phrased in a rude way!  It doesn't help matters that TWO further email enquiries have simply been ignored.

 

[ Take a look at that webpage and see if you can tell me what you would get in the box if you (a) ordered the £115 'Analogue' option or (b) the £143 'Standard decoder' option.  Would either of these deliver a sound-equipped TTS loco? ]

 

If they care so little about potential sales then surely they aren't going to stay in business (even more so in challenging economic times) - particularly so, as has been noted elsewhere, they aren't particularly cheap.

 

Personally, given their response so far, I couldn't care less whether they survive or not.

 

Kust wondered what other forum members had found or whether I caught Neil on a particularly bad day.

 

Art

 

Art

Edited by Art Dent
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Quote

 

My query asked what would be supplied if I ordered the £115 loco - since the description was for a TTS model and TTS decoders don't support analogue running.

 

Their reply said that they offer the model with the sound decoder removed

 

Well that looks to me like a straightforward answer to your specific question, what is not clear about it?

Rgds

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I still have trouble understanding your problem with the £115 version, if you wish to buy a sound fitted one. 

 

The website  seems pretty clear that this will set you back £256. 

 

Does it really matter what they do to the £115 version? 

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1 hour ago, Art Dent said:

Hi Folks,

 

Just wondering if anyone else has had a recent negative experience with Olivia's Trains or if i am simply unlucky and caught someone having an 'off day'?

 

I am looking for a sound-fitted Fowler 4F in OO-gauge (hopefully weathered).  Olivia's seem to have a Hornby 4F TTS in stock - but their website is confusing (at least to me) so I sent an email enquiry.

 

What I didn't understand was that the loco - described as "Hornby R3460TTS 4F 44198 BR Black Late Crest", was priced as follows:  'Analogue £115, Standard Decoder £143 and £256 for Olivia's ESU V4 Sound Fitted.  My query asked what would be supplied if I ordered the £115 loco - since the description was for a TTS model and TTS decoders don't support analogue running.

 

Their reply said that they offer the model with the sound decoder removed - but nowhere on the page does it seem to be stated that the £115 Analogue option equates to this 'sound decoder removed' option.

 

A further TWO emails asking them to clarify have simply been ignored.

 

I know that they are under no obligation to sell to me (or indeed anyone) but I found the tone of their initial reply curt to say the least (and it certainly didn't do anything to answer my query).

 

Are Olivia's Trains so successful a retailer that they can ignore a genuine query regarding a model for potential purchase and operate a 'There's plenty more fish in the sea' policy ?

 

I have bought models from them before but this response (or rather, the lack of it) is completely baffling.

 

Just wondered what the experience of other forum members was regarding this trader.

 

Art

Olivias remove the TTS sound-so this is accurate information.

Most times it has a notice in brackets next to the analogue price.

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25 minutes ago, jonny777 said:

I still have trouble understanding your problem with the £115 version, if you wish to buy a sound fitted one. 

 

The website  seems pretty clear that this will set you back £256. 

 

Does it really matter what they do to the £115 version? 

What does TTS stand for after the model number?

As the loco has had the TTS chip removed then it should say so in the advert otherwise it is false advertising.

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However there is a difference between a £40 soud chip and a £115 sound chip in terms of functionality.

For example the ESU loksound V4 will give out sounds on analogue but the TTS doen't.

The ESU loksound V4 can be reblown but the TTS can't

Really it bows down from people trying to get more out of the option of DCC sound.

ESU v4=£115

TTS=£40

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1 hour ago, Art Dent said:

Hi Folks,

 

Just wondering if anyone else has had a recent negative experience with Olivia's Trains or if i am simply unlucky and caught someone having an 'off day'?

Probably not as most folk on here are aware of how they do business. From what I hear they were not having an off day.

 

I am looking for a sound-fitted Fowler 4F in OO-gauge (hopefully weathered).  Olivia's seem to have a Hornby 4F TTS in stock - but their website is confusing (at least to me) so I sent an email enquiry.

There term of service are even more confusing. I believe a term used by a poster on here was "bathroom salesmen".

 

What I didn't understand was that the loco - described as "Hornby R3460TTS 4F 44198 BR Black Late Crest", was priced as follows:  'Analogue £115, Standard Decoder £143 and £256 for Olivia's ESU V4 Sound Fitted.  My query asked what would be supplied if I ordered the £115 loco - since the description was for a TTS model and TTS decoders don't support analogue running.

You take pot luck on what turns up.

 

Their reply said that they offer the model with the sound decoder removed - but nowhere on the page does it seem to be stated that the £115 Analogue option equates to this 'sound decoder removed' option.

Sounds about right.

 

A further TWO emails asking them to clarify have simply been ignored.

Seems to be fairly typical. Think yourself lucky you did not get a rude reply.

 

I know that they are under no obligation to sell to me (or indeed anyone) but I found the tone of their initial reply curt to say the least (and it certainly didn't do anything to answer my query).

Now you know the sort of people you are dealing with.

 

Are Olivia's Trains so successful a retailer that they can ignore a genuine query regarding a model for potential purchase and operate a 'There's plenty more fish in the sea' policy ?

They are waiting until the price goes up or the model becomes "rare".

 

I have bought models from them before but this response (or rather, the lack of it) is completely baffling.

You were lucky.

 

Just wondered what the experience of other forum members was regarding this trader.

See several other threads. I should add that long ago when they posted on the forum they asked for help with  a project and when I made the odd critical comment they were extremely rude and AY had to intervene. I am obviously biased but I do not like the way they do business. You seem to have had an example of what I am talking about.

Art

 

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1 hour ago, Grovenor said:

Well that looks to me like a straightforward answer to your specific question, what is not clear about it?

Rgds

 

Well,

 

If someone offered the following for sale (ignoring price for the moment) "Hornby R3460TTS 4F 44198 BR Black Late Crest" - for example on eBay - what would you expect to get?

 

If their website said "Hornby R3460TTS 4F 44198 BR Black Late Crest"

  • With sound chip removed - £115
  • With standard (non-sound) decoder - £143
  • With ESU V4 sound decoder - £256

 . . . everything would be clear and I wouldn't have an issue.

 

In their email reply to this specifc question "Could you clarify what I would receive if I ordered R3460TTS in terms of whether a sound-sitted decoder would be supplied?" they said "The Model is R3460TTS as described on the Box".  So that means it sould come with a sound chip and speaker - yes?

 

Otherwise to describe it as a TTS model when it doesn't come with sound (because the sound decoder has been removed) is misleading advertising surely - particularly as I can see nowhere on that page that the £155 Analogue option means that the TTS Sound decoder has been removed?

 

Another part of their reply said "We give customers the option to purchase it with the Sound removed."  If you didn't already know that TTS decoders didn't offer analogue running, how would you know that the £155 Analogue option meant that the sound decoder had been removed?

 

Alex gets it spot-on with this post https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/149757-do-olivias-trains-actually-want-to-sell-trains/&do=findComment&comment=3757672

 

My follow up email - which has been ignored - asked for the following clarification.

 

"Does standard decoder mean standard (i.e. non-sound) decoder of does it mean the standard decoder as fitted by the manufacturer (i.e. a TTS decoder)?"

 

However, the point is now moot.  Given the response ffrom the retailer this far, I won't be purchasing from them and I also wouldn't lament them going under.

 

Woeful customer service.

 

You are welcome to disagree of course.

 

Art

 

 

Edited by Art Dent
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The only new one I could find on the net was £135 (with TTS chip), so £115 for a TTS removed one seems reasonable for a discontinued loco.

The sound fitted from Olivias is a ESU V4 which is much more expensive.

Note: Olivia's are not discounters, their products/services are full RRP.

 

I can't understand getting in a huff over it..:scratchhead:

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I agree with Alex Holt here, the original poster seems to want a model with Hornby's TTS sound decoder fitted to the model for operation on DCC.  This appears to be the default way that Hornby supply this particular model, but it doesn't seem to be an option that can be ordered on Olivia's Trains website.  It therefore seems logical for the original poster to want to clarify what they would be getting for £115: is it the TTS fitted model (as per the Hornby catalogue reference) or one where the TTS decoder has been removed?  If it's the latter, is it possible to purchase this model without the decoder being removed (ie as supplied to Olivia's Trains by Hornby)?  These are sensible questions to ask, and ones that Olivia's Trains should answer properly and politely.

 

Perhaps the problem with Olivia's Trains here is that they have the same attitude as many of those who have replied to this thread.  If you want sound, buy Olivia's own sound project (for £236), if you want to operate on DCC without sound, buy one with Olivia's own choice of decoder fitted (for £143) and if you want to operate on a DC layout, buy the analogue version (with the TTS chip removed) for £115.  If you want it with TTS fitted (why would anyone want that option), just go **** ***.  That's not good customer service.  I'm sure that the DCC Sound version with a Loksound V4 decoder (I note it's not a V5) and Olivia's sound files is probably better than Hornby's TTS version, but not everyone can afford the higher priced version or thinks it is worth the extra cost.  It appears that if someone is in the market for TTS Sound, Olivia's Trains don't cater for their needs.

 

I've no experience of dealing with Olivia's Trains, but I see rather too many posts on RMWeb about their customer service to make me want to purchase from them

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Dungrange

 

That's also spot-on.

 

I have no doubt that the ESU V4 sound-equipped loco would sound great.  My issue was that I found their website confusing and emailed a specific query.

 

The reply I got back wasn't helpful (in fact by saying that "The Model is R3460TTS as described on the Box" in their reply suggests that a TTS decoder-equipped loco would be supplied.

 

I then sent a second email to clarify this point.  Actually, these are the two questions I asked on 5th ...

  • Are you saying that if I purchased this loco for £115 it would be with the TTS sound decoder removed?
  • Are you saying that if I spent £143 I would get a 'standard decoder' (i.e. a non-sound decoder) or by 'standard decoder' do you mean it would have Hornby's standard TTS decoder for this model in it.?

Can you specifically answer the two questions above?

 

Thus far, neither of these two questions have been answered - politely or otherwise.  Olivia's Trains seem to have simply taken their bat home.

 

As I said earlier, the point is now moot as I will not be purchasing from them given this level of customer service.  A bit of a shame really as they are one of several local model railway shops that I have purchased from in the past (Rails, Marcway, Sheffield Transport Models and M.G.Sharp's being the others - if they ever open their doors to trade).

 

I'm glad I emailed them first before driving 3 miles to the shop.

 

Art

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Dungrange said:

I agree with Alex Holt here, the original poster seems to want a model with Hornby's TTS sound decoder fitted to the model for operation on DCC. 

If that's what is wanted, why go to Olivia's in the first place? That's what is puzzling me.

 

Olivia's quite clearly state Analog, DCC fitted with their choice of decoder or Sound fitted with ESU V4.

They probably remove any TTS decoders when they buy Hornby stock (and no doubt they are sold on somewhere).

That is what they have set up their business model as. They are not in the market or trying to compete with retailers selling Hornby TTS fitted locos.

 

Their attitude to anyone asking for anything other than their standard options, however seems to be bordering on plain rude, where a simple "sorry we can't do that" would suffice.

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1 minute ago, melmerby said:

If that's what is wanted, why go to Olivia's in the first place? That's what is puzzling me.

 

Olivia's quite clearly state Analog, DCC fitted with their choice of decoder or Sound fitted with ESU V4.

They probably remove any TTS decoders when they buy Hornby stock (and no doubt they are sold on somewhere).

That is what they have set up their business model as. They are not in the market or trying to compete with retailers selling Hornby TTS fitted locos.

 

Their attitude to anyone asking for anything other than their standard options, however seems to be bordering on plain rude, where a simple "sorry we can't do that" would suffice.

 

Hi Keith,

 

How do you know what decoder would be supplied - as far as I can tell, there is no information about exactly what 'Standard' means.

 

Why purchse from them - to support a local model shop!

 

Art

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2 minutes ago, Art Dent said:

 

Hi Keith,

 

How do you know what decoder would be supplied - as far as I can tell, there is no information about exactly what 'Standard' means.

 

Why purchse from them - to support a local model shop!

 

Art

Quite so, another reason to avoid them, especially as a basic 8 pin Lok Pilot isn't that expensive = £20-22.

They are probably putting in Hornby R8249 chips.:jester:

 

Olivia's have had a lot of negative comments on RMWeb due to their, at times, somewhat offhand attitude to prospective customers.

 

You could get one of these and have it weathered (say Grimy times or TMC)

https://www.bourtonmodelrailway.co.uk/Hornby-r3460tts-br-060-fowler-4f-class-44198-late-br-with-tts-sound.ir

 

https://lordandbutler.com/Hornby-r3460tts--fowler-4f-0-6-0-44198-br-late-crest-tts-sound-fitted-792-p.asp

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Arguably the longest running saga on this forum.Nothing under the sun is new,it seems.Neil ,shall we say,divides opinion.There are some who swear by him .....and those who do the opposite.You take it or leave it.He does not have anything to do with this forum.Try the emporium on Chesterfield Road....much more congenial.

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