Do Olivia's Trains actually WANT to sell trains??

[rob D2]

In summary “ go elsewhere for your chuffer “

[Art Dent]

Yeah Royal Oak, it is something I'll have to live with I guess!

 

Sleeping tablets help though.

 

Art 

[truffy]

2 hours ago, jonny777 said:

It was meant as sarcasm. 

<sarcasm>well, that was so bl**din' obvious!</sarcasm>

[jonny777]

10 hours ago, Art Dent said:

You need to put *sarcastic* tags around your post then!

 

I took your post at face value and wondered why the heck you'd taken that interpretation from my post.

 

Art

 

 

 

 

Possibly, but when I see these critical threads where the accused are not present to give their side of the story, I tend to try and think of that angle for myself; Devil's Advocate, if you like.

 

There are a couple of serious points raised here. 

 

My first thought when I looked at the Olivia's web page (and also the search results for that particular model number elsewhere) was that the particular loco Olivia's have for sale might be the only one they have. It seems to have sold out everywhere else.

 

After exhausting the customer base for the TTS equipped model, maybe they thought an alternative strategy might be to make it tempting to DC modellers? As a DC modeller myself, I would have found it rather tempting, had it been in my era and/or geographical area; because at least I would not have had to pay for a sound fitted loco only to remove the sound chip once I took it home, because with this one it had been done for me without the extra charge. Nothing illegal there, I suspect.

 

Of course, retailers are eager to sell their own products, and so adding an alternative of the loco fitted with a high quality sound chip for a lot more money is something they are quite within their rights to do; after all it is their loco to sell. 

 

The question of how it is listed, with the model number in full, may simply be because that way anyone doing a web search will find that particular model. I must admit, I would have struggled to understand what the 'analogue' description meant, but that might just be my lack of lateral thinking. Maybe 'DC ready, sound chip removed' (or something similar) would have been more appropriate? 

 

However, my question to anyone who might want that particular Hornby model would be 'why didn't you purchase one when they were introduced, and all the retailers stocked them'? The OP asked the question about what they would receive for their £115, and back came the answer 'it is the original, but with the sound chip removed', which is very honest. If the OP seriously wanted the TTS version, surely the followup question would be, "how much would it now cost me if the original TTS chip was re-fitted?" Of course it might be that that particular chip may have been sold separately, and this would not be possible, but at least they could give that reply. 

 

The other point raised by comments on this thread (and which would open up the biggest can of worms ever, so is why I am not going to pontificate on the subject) and a more general point entirely; is how many times are retailers allowed to open boxed items and give locos a test run to potential customers before the item can be termed 'used' and not 'mint condition' and should be sold at reduced prices?

 

 

 

 

[Bernard Lamb]

11 hours ago, Art Dent said:

You need to put *sarcastic* tags around your post then!

 

I took your post at face value and wondered why the heck you'd taken that interpretation from my post.

 

Art

 

 

I took your first post at face value and tried to post a sensible reply.

I did not get an acknowledgement from you.

You then continue to wind it up regarding the odd point and fail to take notice of several comments that explain the situation and offer advice.

You appear to me to be a bit of a trouble maker rather than a person asking a genuine question.

is that being sarcastic? You choose.

If you ever ask for advice again I will certainly not bother to give a reply.

Bernard

[caradoc]

15 hours ago, Winter123 said:

If you only live 3 miles away, why didn't you go in and inspect the actual model itself?

 

From what I have read about this retailer, here and elsewhere, I would not go in if I lived 300 yards away, never mind 3 miles !

[Guest MM1991]

1 hour ago, caradoc said:

 

From what I have read about this retailer, here and elsewhere, I would not go in if I lived 300 yards away, never mind 3 miles !

I was in the shop once a few years ago, handed over my bank card to pay only to have it almost thrown back at me.  "We dont take foreign money"  the man said - I'd handed over a Bank of Scotland card.

 

Went to Rails and spent a fortune there instead, and never will return to Olivias

[ba14eagle]

Sorry OP, idk if you are incapacitated or cant leave your house, but like one or 2 others here, I find it incredible that you have a model shop only 3 miles from your home and you wont go and shop there, but instead send an email. Add to this, youve also got Rails plus others in the same City.

I must say, I often look at pre-owned items on the Hattons website which have contradictory info re spec and price and I dont recall others making a song and dance on here about it. I also wouldnt go to a butchers to buy fruit and veg. If this shop doesnt sell what you want, you shop somewhere else - simples. Personally, I dont get involved if there is any confusion.

As ive said on previous threads about this supplier, they are quite marmite. If I need their services or products, I make a 300 mile round trip to get them. Yes, the shop staff can appear a bit brusque, but I get what I want.

I wish I had a model railway shop within 10 miles of where I live....

[jonny777]

9 minutes ago, ba14eagle said:

Sorry OP, idk if you are incapacitated or cant leave your house, but like one or 2 others here, I find it incredible that you have a model shop only 3 miles from your home and you wont go and shop there, but instead send an email. Add to this, youve also got Rails plus others in the same City.

I must say, I often look at pre-owned items on the Hattons website which have contradictory info re spec and price and I dont recall others making a song and dance on here about it. I also wouldnt go to a butchers to buy fruit and veg. If this shop doesnt sell what you want, you shop somewhere else - simples. Personally, I dont get involved if there is any confusion.

As ive said on previous threads about this supplier, they are quite marmite. If I need their services or products, I make a 300 mile round trip to get them. Yes, the shop staff can appear a bit brusque, but I get what I want.

I wish I had a model railway shop within 10 miles of where I live....

 

Have you tried Model Railways Direct in Portishead? A lot less mileage for a round trip.

[Art Dent]

2 hours ago, jonny777 said:

The question of how it is listed, with the model number in full, may simply be because that way anyone doing a web search will find that particular model. I must admit, I would have struggled to understand what the 'analogue' description meant, but that might just be my lack of lateral thinking. Maybe 'DC ready, sound chip removed' (or something similar) would have been more appropriate? 

 

However, my question to anyone who might want that particular Hornby model would be 'why didn't you purchase one when they were introduced, and all the retailers stocked them'? The OP asked the question about what they would receive for their £115, and back came the answer 'it is the original, but with the sound chip removed', which is very honest. If the OP seriously wanted the TTS version, surely the followup question would be, "how much would it now cost me if the original TTS chip was re-fitted?" Of course it might be that that particular chip may have been sold separately, and this would not be possible, but at least they could give that reply. 

 

The other point raised by comments on this thread (and which would open up the biggest can of worms ever, so is why I am not going to pontificate on the subject) and a more general point entirely; is how many times are retailers allowed to open boxed items and give locos a test run to potential customers before the item can be termed 'used' and not 'mint condition' and should be sold at reduced prices?

 

 

Hi Jonny,

 

The bit in bold is incorrect, that isn't what they said.  If they had said that, I would know exactly where I stand and, although I would take issue with labelling the model as 'Hornby R3460TTS 4F 44198 BR Black Late Crest' and saying that the sound decoder would be removed for analogue running (hence NOT a TTS model), I would konw what I was getting.

 

I could choose to buy (or not) safe in the knowledge of what to expect.

 

What they DID say in response to my question was this "The Model is R3460TTS as described on the Box."  Nowhere that I can see does the webpage listing for this model say that the £115 Analogue price is with the TTS sound decoder removed.

 

Anyway, regardless of this I have chosen not to buy from Olivia's Trains and I'll leave other folk to chat to them if they are interested in any of the models they sell.

 

By the way, I don't understand why people are criticizing me for emailing the shop to clarify something before making a 3 mile journey (by car) across the city.  An email takes a minute or less to do and can easily be combined with activities such as searching for a specific model using the likes of Google.  At a minimum it would have taken 25-30 minutes to get to the shop (and the same to return). Getting public transport would have involved two buses either way and waiting in the cold/wind at both bus stops.  Then there is the time spent in the shop itself.  I may (possibly) have found out that the loco was being sold without sound at the £115 Analogue price-point or I may simply have purchased the loco, got home and then discovered the issue.

 

Of course, you may disagree with the above and that's your choice.  I often drop into Rails, Marcway and Sheffield Transport Models as well as WD Models in Chesterfield - but very rarely make a special trip just for a nosey round - especially when a lot of research can be done from the laptop.

 

Art

[Art Dent]

 

Duplicate Post - deleted.

Edited December 8, 2019 by Art Dent

[jonny777]

22 hours ago, Art Dent said:

My query asked what would be supplied if I ordered the £115 loco - since the description was for a TTS model and TTS decoders don't support analogue running.

 

Their reply said that they offer the model with the sound decoder removed

 

 

 

19 hours ago, Art Dent said:

In their email reply to this specifc question "Could you clarify what I would receive if I ordered R3460TTS in terms of whether a sound-sitted decoder would be supplied?" they said "The Model is R3460TTS as described on the Box".  So that means it sould come with a sound chip and speaker - yes?

 

 

Maybe not according to the quote in your first post (pasted above this one - in case anyone has forgotten. 

 

So now we have two different replies to what are not quite the same questions. 

 

I might have been confused initially, but I am far more confused now. It depends on which question we are supposed to be commenting on. 

 

[melmerby]

So, we now do not know what was originally asked of Olivia's and we also do not know what their original reply was.

I'm totaly confused.

[woodenhead]

I think we need to just pull back a little here as it's getting into one of those threads:

• Olivias are selling a loco that has had the TTS chip removed - either by them or by Hornby when they supplied Olivias perhaps with some unsold stock.
• Olivias have clearly marked the loco as analogue at £115 so no false advertising.
• It is confusing though as a potential customer and as it is not unknown for humans to make mistakes there is nothing wrong in checking with Olivias as to the status of the loco at £115
• Olivias are known to be rude, we have plenty of evidence and no point going back to that old chestnut
• Olivias have been in business 11 years now and still appear to be trading so people must be happy with the service at some level
• Hattons work with Olivias - if it was bad for business they wouldn't so they must have a level of confidence in Olivias to deliver product to Hattons when required
• You don't have to buy from Olivias
• Hornby 4F TTS models can be found elsewhere - Ebay though will be the most likely source but some shops may still have one or two and secondhand sellers may have them.

 

[Mallard60022]

Oh FFS kill this thread now before it dies horribly.

P

Edited December 8, 2019 by Mallard60022

[royaloak]

2 hours ago, jonny777 said:

After exhausting the customer base for the TTS equipped model, maybe they thought an alternative strategy might be to make it tempting to DC modellers? As a DC modeller myself, I would have found it rather tempting, had it been in my era and/or geographical area; because at least I would not have had to pay for a sound fitted loco only to remove the sound chip once I took it home, because with this one it had been done for me without the extra charge. Nothing illegal there, I suspect.

So they are doing the customer a favour by removing a £40 sound chip, installing a 50p blanking plug and STILL charging the same £115 price for a TTS fitted model, thats customer service for ya!

 

I would rather buy the £115 sound fitted loco, and either run it as is on analogue (it will run just no sound), or even remove the sound chip and sell it on, but maybe I am missing something!

Edited December 8, 2019 by royaloak

[royaloak]

13 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

 

• Olivias have clearly marked the loco as analogue at £115 so no false advertising.

 

So advertising a model with a TTS after the model number when it isnt TTS fitted isnt false advertising then, unless you can point me to where it says clearly on the advert that the TTS chip has been removed I would say it was.

 

The fact it say at the bottom it is analogue for £115 doesnt to me mean the chip has been removed, merely that it is the standard model as supplied and is suitable for analogue operation.

[ruggedpeak]

The key here is the OP assumes that businesses will provide a reasonable level of customer service and civility in their responses. Not all do, and despite this stay in business.

 

There are plenty of businesses that assume or indeed require that you the customer to do a lot of the work and thinking for them, and if you don't or don't like it they aren't interested in dealing with you.

 

Olivia's do seem to hold stocks of things that have mostly sold out elsewhere and charge high prices for them. The key here is patience, what you are looking for will turn up on Ebay etc eventually. I would also ring around smaller model shops as many are sitting on items long since sold out at larger shops. My local model store is great for that, the shelves have plenty of older stock items but as they don't sell online so it doesn't appear on web searches. And they don't update their price labels

[Art Dent]

27 minutes ago, melmerby said:

So, we now do not know what was originally asked of Olivia's and we also do not know what their original reply was.

I'm totaly confused.

 

You know, I no longer care.

 

I asked the question originally to see if other folks had had problems with Olivia's Trains (it appears that the answer is a resounding yes).

 

The thread then went on to discuss whether their description and what they intended to supply was okay.  Jury still seems to be out on that one.

 

For my part, I have made the decision NOT to buy from Olivia's Trains, nor indeed to have anything further to do with them.  They can sink or swim in future, I don't care!

 

As far as further discussion you can carry on or let this thread come to an end.  Again, I don't care either way.

 

Art

Edited December 8, 2019 by Art Dent

[jcredfer]

Hornby R3460TTS - is -  BR 0-6-0 Fowler 4F Class 44198 - Late BR with Twin Track Sound Sound.

{Sound fitted, sold complete and ready to go out of the box.  As stated by an earlier poster TTS is only for DCC not DC}

 

Locomotive Prices:
£115 – Analogue.  {Sold with the TTS removed, as it can't have the TTS because it is described as analogue and therefore cannot be DCC which the TTS is. As an earlier post said, it might have been clearer if they had described it as TTS removed.}
£143 – Std Decoder Fitted. {Sound onboard, which is the original TTS Hornby offering at the top of this post, for £8.00 more than at least one, elsewhere.}  (+£8 ESU Lok Pilot)  {TTS board would be removed and replaced with ESU Loc Pilot, DCC but no sound, for  +£8.00 extra. - total £151,00.}
£256 – Olivia’s ESU V4 Sound Fitted  {TTS removed and ESU V4 fitted and loaded with Olivia's sound track.}

£0,00 - Olivia's customer service  -"Their reply said that they offer the model with the sound decoder removed - but nowhere on the page does it seem to be stated that the £115 Analogue option equates to this 'sound decoder removed' option." 

{The £115.00 price is the only price listed without sound or DCC Lok Pilot and is described as analogue.  With the sound decoder removed, it is no longer DCC, so will be DC, which, does need some deduction to get there.  Perhaps that's why their advice is the only item at £0.00.} 

 

Regards

Julian

 

[Dungrange]

15 minutes ago, jcredfer said:

£143 – Std Decoder Fitted. {Sound onboard, which is the original TTS Hornby offering at the top of this post, for £8.00 more than at least one, elsewhere.}  (+£8 ESU Lok Pilot)  {TTS board would be removed and replaced with ESU Loc Pilot, DCC but no sound, for  +£8.00 extra. - total £151,00.}

 

But that is just your assumption: it doesn't clearly state that on their web page.  This is effectively the follow up question that the original poster sent to which they never received a reply and which prompted this thread - what is meant by 'standard decoder'.  Note that the web pages says "standard" rather than "original".  As such, I think this could also be read as a basic non-sound decoder (ie Hornby's standard decoder, say, rather than the original TTS decoder). 

[royaloak]

26 minutes ago, Art Dent said:

As far as further discussion you can carry on or let this thread come to an end.  Again, I don't care either way.

 

Art

Oh I think we both know this thread is going to go on and on and on dont we!

[jcredfer]

9 minutes ago, Dungrange said:

 

But that is just your assumption: it doesn't clearly state that on their web page.  This is effectively the follow up question that the original poster sent to which they never received a reply and which prompted this thread - what is meant by 'standard decoder'.  Note that the web pages says "standard" rather than "original".  As such, I think this could also be read as a basic non-sound decoder (ie Hornby's standard decoder, say, rather than the original TTS decoder). 

 

Hornby R3460TTS - is -  BR 0-6-0 Fowler 4F Class 44198 - Late BR with Twin Track Sound Sound.     Then it would no longer be the standard item, as listed, read from the page and not an assumption.

 

Regards

Julian

 

 

[Art Dent]

18 hours ago, woodenhead said:

How about these, looks to be in stock at Lord & Butler

 

https://lordandbutler.com/Hornby-r3460tts--fowler-4f-0-6-0-44198-br-late-crest-tts-sound-fitted-792-p.asp

 

TMC weathered example from Triangman

 

https://tri-angman.co.uk/shop/?wpsc-product=Hornby-r3460tts-br-late-fowler-0-6-0-class-4f-locomotive-44198-tts-sound-and-tmc-heavy-weathered-superb-boxed-condition

 

Thanks to woodenhead and the link above, the TMC Heavily Weathered 4F TTS has been ordered from tri-angman.

 

Thank you to all that have contributed - whether we have agreed or not.

 

The above purchase closes this issue once and for all for me.

 

Art

[Phil Parker]

Time to lock this before it spirals.