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LSWR (ex) Push Pull details


cabbie37
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Through the kindness of a fellow RM Web member, I now have a part constructed Jidenco Push Pull set. As you can see from the photo, they are to still to be completed but I am short of all the necessary components. I'm hoping that the experience and knowledge of this group will be able to help. 

 

I will be modelling them as they were in the early 1930s. I assume that by then they will have been converted to electric light so at the least the underframe will require battery boxes and dynamos. The vacuum chambers for the brakes are already fitted. I think the roof profile is the 'standard' approach of LSWR with a semi-eliptic profile and the bogies, Fox lightweight with a transverse spring. I will also require roof fittings so LSWR Torpedo vents is I guess what I need. I am planning on going to the Stevenage show in January where Roxey have a stall and a hoping that Dave @ Roxey Mouldings maybe willing to sell the individual components, if I can pre-order.

 

So, my request, chaps, is can you help me with preparing a list? Also, can anyone point me to any good diagrams or photos that I can work from. I do have some that I have scraped from a *lengthy* thread on the Kernow models from 'another place' but still need some more detail. Particularly I have no idea of the interior, so any images of that would be very useful. Indeed, that's a point, I will need to acquire interior fittings as well...

 

Any help or suggestions very gratefully received..

 

Hugh

push pull coaches.jpg

Edited by cabbie37
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For the bogies, it seem that Roxey sell both complete kits of bogies frames plus castings, or the castings separately. If you wanted the Roxey castings on sprung bogies, Bill Bedford does sprung frames for Fox bogies, sold through Eileen's emporium.

 

Laycock "torpedo" vents are available as castings from various manufacturers; I know that Branchlines sell them separately from coach kits. They are also available as prints from some Shapeways shops (not mine). There were various sizes of these vents, but I think the differences won't notice in 4mm scale. There is a possibility that  there were interpretations of Laycock's patent that had noticeably different shapes, in that ratio of the diameter to the length across the points of the cones might vary, but I don't have strong information on this. Probably any well-cast torpedo vent would do. 

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Thank you Guy. That's the bogie choice confirmed then, and I've noticed a pack of Fourmost/ABS ventilators on Ebay that would probably fit the bill.. Can anyone confirm that the roof section for one of these Roxey kits:

 

https://www.roxeymouldings.co.uk/product/80/4c95-lswr-56ft-corridor-brake-third/

 

would be right? It does seem to be the right section?

 

I've been trying to track down a copy of the Mike King book on Push-Pull sets, but the one at £450 I found was a bit too strong as far as I was concerned. Even the £55 quid is a bit out of reach, but I live in hope that a reasonably priced one might turn up..

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Dave at Roxey will sell you the bogies and probably has all the fittings you might want in his range, HOWEVER, he does not routinely take the castings to shows - if you want to collect them from Stevenage then you will need to order for collection in advance.

 

I think that the gate stock has some unusual combination of spring or bogie plank, which Dave can accommodate, but which isn't one of his standard combinations. He is more than familiar with supplying parts for Jidenco gate stock because he supplied the fittings for mine, and it certainly wasn't the first. The difficulty will be the roof, as the Jidenco profile is all wrong. I think I took a set of 34mm wide LSWR profiles from him in the end, but fitting wasn't easy, 

 

Jon

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Jon - may I just ask, did you give Dave@Roxey a list or did you just say, can you provide me with what I need? I'm not knowledgeable enough yet to provide him a detailed list without further reseach, resources for which, I'm not sure I have as yet...

 

Hugh

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I asked - I had no idea either, I like building etched kits, so bought a couple from a club members estate and built it, which was ultimately sold on. 

 

I've occasionally helped Dave behind the Roxey stand for 30 odd years - your position is VERY common - even amongst experienced builders, lots of customers come up and ask 'I've just bought an XYZ and I need this or that' and Dave will tell you what he can do (and what he can't) and if you need parts from someone else he will try and point you in the right direction.

 

I would send him an email with the photos above to give an idea of what you have got, and then see what he has in the range.

 

Jon

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Right, I've fired the email off as suggested. I'll let you know what the response is. When you built yours, how did you fit out the interior? Of the few photos I have been able to put together to work from, I have not yet managed to find anything that shows the seating arrangements. I assume central gangway with pairs of seats either side. Can anyone suggest likely source for that/those?

 

thanks..

 

Hugh

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Thanks, @Wickham Green. I have some concerns about the roof profile, as already pointed out by @jonhall. I was aware that the kit was less accurate in some respects than it could have been, but had not realised that the roof would be tricky. Jon, was it to do with the profile of the ends of each carriage not being correct? Can you say anymore about what you had to deal with?

 

Sorry to pester you...

 

Hugh

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The roof profile is far too flat on the etches, and a shade wide so it was a bit difficult to find anything that worked - I sold it on so I can't go and have a look.

 

The interior is all op[en, but some saloons are bench seats along the sides and others are as you describe groups of 4 either side of a central 'gangway'. all the seats end at or below the windows. From memory I took the old Ratio seat moulding that comes a length about 6 inches long, and sawed off the top headrest bit, leaving the swab and lower back, then sawed that into suitable lengths.

 

Jon

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There is an interesting article in the latest MRJ (275) on constructing a Southwark Bridge Model's (now Roxey of course) LSWR coach kit. It is for a compartment coach rather than an open one but I suspect that the roof profile is much the same and the article shows how this was constructed from plastic, mainly strips.

The only thing that I would add is that rather than gluing emery paper to wood, I use "foot files" purchased from a pharmacy or (especially) larger supermarket.

 

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3 minutes ago, Blandford1969 said:

The one area that appears not covered in any of the books mentioned or other sources is the inside of the driving cabs themselves

However, if you look hard enough photos do exist of the inside of other Southern P&P unit driving cabs and, after their c1929 refurbishment (conversion from cable to air working and installation of standard SR cab front) these would have been much the same - even at that date ASLEF had a significant influence on the design of SR driving cabs (whether electric or P&P unit). For the same reason, the inside of the driving cab would have been painted a slightly greyish eau-du-nile colour which was considered least distracting for drivers (and again applied to both electric and P&P cabs).

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Well, I've now heard back from Dave Hammersley with an encouraging response, He can supply all the components I need such as correct bogies, underframe, roof details and buffers. He has confirmed what has already been alluded to, that the roof profile on the carriages is wrong, both in terms of cross section and width and his comment was that none of his vacuum formed profiles would suit. I have replied saying that @jonhall had managed to fettle a 34mm section to fit. so I would be looking at that a possibility. 

 

I will see Dave at the Stevenage show and take one of the body shells along with me and hopefully we can find something close that I can bodge. I'm guessing that the aluminium profile suggested by @Wickham Green would have the same problems..

 

Hey-ho....

 

Hugh

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  • 2 months later...
On 08/12/2019 at 10:35, cabbie37 said:

Through the kindness of a fellow RM Web member, I now have a part constructed Jidenco Push Pull set. As you can see from the photo, they are to still to be completed but I am short of all the necessary components. I'm hoping that the experience and knowledge of this group will be able to help. 

 

I will be modelling them as they were in the early 1930s. I assume that by then they will have been converted to electric light so at the least the underframe will require battery boxes and dynamos. The vacuum chambers for the brakes are already fitted. I think the roof profile is the 'standard' approach of LSWR with a semi-eliptic profile and the bogies, Fox lightweight with a transverse spring. I will also require roof fittings so LSWR Torpedo vents is I guess what I need. I am planning on going to the Stevenage show in January where Roxey have a stall and a hoping that Dave @ Roxey Mouldings maybe willing to sell the individual components, if I can pre-order.

 

So, my request, chaps, is can you help me with preparing a list? Also, can anyone point me to any good diagrams or photos that I can work from. I do have some that I have scraped from a *lengthy* thread on the Kernow models from 'another place' but still need some more detail. Particularly I have no idea of the interior, so any images of that would be very useful. Indeed, that's a point, I will need to acquire interior fittings as well...

 

Any help or suggestions very gratefully received..

 

Hugh

push pull coaches.jpg

I would talk to Dave sooner rather than later, he is quite knowledgable on South Western stock. The set would have been converted to electric lighting when the conversion to air-operated pull-and-push equipment was done if, indeed, it hadn't been done earlier. Noting the present livery of the model, in LSWR days (and the first few years of the SR era) the pull-and-push equipment would have been wire and pulley.

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