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How to Reduce Flange Depth and/or Thickness


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Hi all,

 

Can someone enlighten me as to how to go about reducing the height, and if necessary the thickness, of flanges on older models? I have a model of a Bachmann WD 2-8-0 that is from a quite old production run and its flanges are far to deep for modern track, so I'd like to change the flanges to make them smaller.

 

I've done a Google site search of RMweb and couldn't find a thread that answered my question so that's why I have started this one. If there is an existing thread then I'd be happy to be referred to it.

 

TIA

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I think your choices are either to buy replacement wheel-sets or buy a lathe and place each wheel in turn in the lathe and reduce it to the standard that you want (ie you need to set it up to remove the amount of material required to match your chosen standard).  I suspect most people will go for the first option.

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I wanted to do the same to the wheels on some Lima parcel vans so they would run on code 75 track. I used a grinding wheel in a Dremel to grind them down as I turned them. The procedure worked well and I think was successful. I have since sold them and the buyer said he was very pleased with them as he used code 75 track as well. Having said that, I don't think it will be so easy on the driving wheels of an engine unless you remove them first.

 

Robert

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A friend of mine once reduced some overthick flanges by getting one wheel off the axle, putting the axle in a mini drill and gently applying a file to the back and the edge of the flange, comparing the profile to a more scale wheel.

 

It was primitive, a bit of a bodge that would make many cringe but it worked!

 

When you see how much RTR and scale wheel profiles vary anyway , the idea that you have to have all your wheels identical is an ideal solution rather than a practical one.

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My older Bachmann Crab has flanges deeper than the new model I also have, so I ordered a new set of drivers only to find they supplied the deeper flanged ones. Same part number for both models - so be careful.

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On ‎08‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 12:26, Ian J. said:

... I have a model of a Bachmann WD 2-8-0 that is from a quite old production run and its flanges are far to deep for modern track, so I'd like to change the flanges to make them smaller...

My two oldest WD 2-8-0's were purchased pretty much at first introduction; December 1999 and - liking it very much - the second one February 2000. From that time to this they have run on SMP, C&L, Marcway and Peco code 75 both FB and the new BH, with never a problem. The tender wheelset flanges are a little deeper than those of the loco, but not enough to hit chairs or have any other troubles.

 

If they were a problem, I'd take them down on an old scythe whetstone piece that I found on a dig; spin them in a drill chuck and gauge the reduction by eye; a quick, cheap and dirty method that fits with OO's coarse nature...

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I've done similar with old Romford wheels.  Mount the wheel on its' axle and insert into a Dremel or similar.  Measure the flange diameter (I used a digital caliper) before starting and decide what diam. you are after.  Run the wheel in the Dremel against a file, checking often.  When done clean up to get the right profile.

 

As said, it is crude, but free.

 

Buying a new wheelset seems a better idea for a valued RTR loco.

 

John

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I have a lathe and an RP25 tool :)

 

the hardest part with rtr locos (apart from Bachmann Split chassis) is taking the wheelsets apart to get the wheels onto the lathe in the first place. 95% of the time taken is stripping down and rebuilding .....

Edited by RedgateModels
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1 hour ago, RexAshton said:

Alan Gibson can supply replacement wheels from his range with the correct 2.5mm axle.

 

But would they work with the existing Bachmann valve gear and screws, etc, whatever? I am not looking to replace the entire chassis or to have to build valve gear, I would just like to get wheels such that their flanges don't touch the chairs of my C&L track, which they currently do.

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5 hours ago, RedgateModels said:

I have a lathe and an RP25 tool :)

 

the hardest part with rtr locos (apart from Bachmann Split chassis) is taking the wheelsets apart to get the wheels onto the lathe in the first place. 95% of the time taken is stripping down and rebuilding .....

 

There's a tool specific to getting RP25 profiles?

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19 hours ago, Ian J. said:

 

But would they work with the existing Bachmann valve gear and screws, etc, whatever? I am not looking to replace the entire chassis or to have to build valve gear, I would just like to get wheels such that their flanges don't touch the chairs of my C&L track, which they currently do.

You might have to bush the coupling rods to fit with Alan's crankpins but there shouldn't be a problem otherwise.

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I  tuned down the flanges to RP25 on a Liliput 2-10-2 tank by  wiring up the motor running it and turning down the flanges with a good quality swiss needle file .I used a kadee NMRA gauge for the wheel flange .it sounds horrendous but worked a treat .The pony wheels were done in a lathe or dremel ,cant remember .I am trying to pluck up courage to do some little Bavarian Trix ,Fleischmann ,and Roco locos

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I too have used the very coarse (and very cheap!) method of filing down the flanges in a power drill on Lima stock so that it doesn't rattle through Peco Code 75.

 

Cheers,

Mick

 

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I've never tried it but perhaps fitting wires to a locomotive's motor and running it whilst it's stood on an oilstone would work to reduce flange depth?  I am thinking that it's going to be better than using a file or dremel tool on individual wheels. All the wheels would, in theory, be properly circular and an equal amount of material would be taken off them all. This would only work on driving wheels, of course.

 

Has anyone tried this?

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2 minutes ago, Ruston said:

I've never tried it but perhaps fitting wires to a locomotive's motor and running it whilst it's stood on an oilstone would work to reduce flange depth?  I am thinking that it's going to be better than using a file or dremel tool on individual wheels. All the wheels would, in theory, be properly circular and an equal amount of material would be taken off them all. This would only work on driving wheels, of course.

 

Has anyone tried this?

Hi Ruston,

 

My dad tried this method on an old Triang tank engine back in the day because ran on the chairs and got stuck in the point frogs of System 6 track, circa 1973. The net result was a soggy saddle tank with a burnt out motor underneath it.

 

Gibbo.

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One small point if going for the file method. Normally when using a file by hand, every (nearly every) tooth on the file passes over the object being filed. If the file is held against a revolving wheel, and is not moved one tooth will do all the cutting, become dull and clogged up. It is important to move the file backwards and forwards slowly, and use a wire brush on it frequently.

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I am surprised the WD flanges are giving trouble, we have an early one with springing on the middle axles and the flanges look pretty shallow to me.

You can turn the chassis upside down and rev the guts out of the motor holding a file on the flanges but whether they would ( A ) end up concentric or (B) the chassis would survive is debatable.  I have semi successfully turned flanges down in the lathe but only after removing the tyres and fitting them to a mandrel to turn them,   Turning them attached to the wheel usually results in the wheel coming loose on the axle.    I wonder if the trouble is back to back related rather than flange depth per se.   

 

On 11/12/2019 at 20:48, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Ruston,

My dad tried this method on an old Triang tank engine back in the day because ran on the chairs and got stuck in the point frogs of System 6 track, circa 1973. The net result was a soggy saddle tank with a burnt out motor underneath it.

Gibbo.

 

The Triang mazak wheels can be turned this way, I grip the tyres in my lathe chuck and just take a few thou off, but the sintered type are absolute sods more likely to cut a groove in the file, but with the B to B eased out to 14.2 mm or so these wheels sail through set track, code 100 and system six with ease.     I have an R52 Jinty altered like this on eBay as I write,  I bought it for the motor but its too good to break

Edited by DavidCBroad
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So, I've dug out my WD and checked it on Peco code 75 and C&L flexitrack. My memory must have been a bit wrong as it seems fine on the Peco, and on the C&L only the tender wheels are catching the chairs, and then only a little. I'm wondering if I've conflated a different locomotive with the WD. However, I still think the thread has merit, as I'm sure there must be / must have been another locomotive in my collection that exhibited far worse issues with flange depth (excepting my old Lima diesels which I know have pizza cutter wheels). I used to have a Bachmann Crab, and wonder if that might have been the culprit.

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