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Olivia's Class 76 LE (inc earlier Blue Pullman content)


Gulliver

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....an advert at the back from Olivias Trains saying they have commissioned the Class 76 from Heljan and also the Blue Pullman!

 

There is no more details and it asks people not to call but instead to visit http://www.oliviastrains.com/

 

I have visited their site but there are no details on here at all, other than a link to a Class 76 Project page which when you click on it takes you to a blank page.

 

Page now reads:

 

 

"Watch This Space.

 

Please See June's Edition of

<H1>MODEL RAIL

 

Issue No. 144." rolleyes.gif

</H1>

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The lowest form of wit ? Not at all....the widespread disappointment felt when the Western came out, the shape of the 86, the tubby duff, the wonky 17, the odd shapes of the 33's - and have you tried to DCC the 14 ?

 

And have you seen their O guage mark 1's ? Completely the wrong shape - the trademark curved bodysides are miles out and there is an odd curve in the roof profile to compensate. They drew some very strong comments in my local shop. One bloke had been waiting ages for them and was heartbroken by the end result.

 

They've been brave by doing the oddballs - I have a 53 and Kestrel, look forward to a Lion. The 15 is good too, but Heljan have a lot of form, more "duffs" and "so-nearly's" than anyone else. And as for the class 47 chassis metal problem.....

 

But then.....blow me, they're making a 28. Yes, I've ordered one.......

 

Fair enough, each to their own. I am not defending Heljan's past mistakes, but I feel they should be given a chance. Didnt think there was much wrong with the 33/1 and 33/2 mind. And yes, I have dcc'ed my 14, fairly easy when you use the right decoder ;)

 

Apologies for dragging Hornby and Bachmann into it Mod 6, I was just making the point that all manufacturers are not perfect. I'll keep quiet and look forward to the new models from now on and leave others to bash away.

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Since joining RMweb three years ago I have learned not to criticise people who only buy plastic RTR, the reason being they have never built anything, have no intention of building or painting anything if a manufacturer wil produce it for them, and are bound to be hyper-critical of anything put before them.wink.gif

 

As to the news being big and not the model, a Blue Pullman model is definitely big. So too is an LMS Beyer-Garratt, and lets face it, who could resist such a model even on a GWR BLT......?biggrin.gif

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Since joining RMweb three years ago I have learned not to criticise people who only buy plastic RTR, the reason being they have never built anything, have no intention of building or painting anything if a manufacturer wil produce it for them, and are bound to be hyper-critical of anything put before them.wink.gif

 

As to the news being big and not the model, a Blue Pullman model is definitely big. So too is an LMS Beyer-Garratt, and lets face it, who could resist such a model even on a GWR BLT......?biggrin.gif

 

Me!

 

However the 1,500vdc changeover period around, say, Worsborough might tempt even me northwards and Torside is definitely a superbly scenic location IMHO (and there's always 'the other half' of the garage once the garden is finished B) )

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One wonders what bit of Blue Pullman they'll do ? A train pack type thing (two power cars and a coach) or the full blown 8, 9 whatever car version ?

 

Full credit to them, mind, and looking forward to the apoplexy on Model Rail Express.....

 

And now Olivia trains site has a link for Class 76/77 orders ! Doesn't work tho, but a tantalising glimpse into whats coming.

 

Then Kernow announce Tommy with Bachmann !!

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I'm sure John at Cambridge Custom Transfers will be willing to sell a set of his transfers to better the factory printing.

post-2274-127384029659_thumb.jpg

(Very low resolution image - the tiny lettering is actually legible. BL63 available for Western Pullman)

 

Certainly - and I will be interested to see how much of the plethora of tiny lettering that existed on the prototype is reproduced by Heljan.

 

Even my extremely comprehensive transfer sheet omits a couple of items that I could not decipher, even from the extremely high resolution original works photos that Pete Waterman kindly supplied to me.

 

I have to admit that I'm in a quandry over the Olivia's / Heljan BP announcement. At GREAT expense I have acquired a full un-built Kitmaster six car rake and a couple of Black Beetles, and the project has progressed to the mechanically complete stage. I now need to get on with the highly repetitive body assembly / detailing / painting stages.

 

There is a distinct danger of history repeating itself, as happened with the NRM / Bachmann DELTIC. I sold on the assembled components at a considerable loss after being tempted by the RTR version.

 

I'll try and resist this time - I've just over a year to go before retirement and completion of the Kitmaster BP would be an ideal post-retirement project!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood,

Cambridge Custom Transfers.

http://www.cctrans.freeserve.co.uk/

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.....And now Olivia trains site has a link for Class 76/77 orders ! Doesn't work tho, but a tantalising glimpse into whats coming....

 

Errm....not exactly. All it does is refer you back to the advert in Model Rail.....which refers you back to the website....which refers you back to Model Rail, which....

 

"Round, like a circle in a spiral

Like a wheel within a wheel.

Never ending or beginning,

On an ever spinning wheel....."

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Errm....not exactly. All it does is refer you back to the advert in Model Rail.....which refers you back to the website....which refers you back to Model Rail, which....

 

"Round, like a circle in a spiral

Like a wheel within a wheel.

Never ending or beginning,

On an ever spinning wheel....."

 

The fact that there is a "class 76/77" link is the tantalising bit - we're getting an EM2 as well. Fully aware that there isn't the "meat" behind it yet......

 

Anyone told Alan Whitehouse yet ? Was BBC's transport correspondent here in Look Northwest land, though not sure where he is now. He has a superb 2mm Woodhead layout, and is a big Woodhead fan, and has authored books on the line. Top bloke as well, according to my BBC source.

 

And nice for Olivias to be involved - does the Sheffield link come into this ? I think that they;re on a winner here.

 

I'm tempted to have one of each, and I think many others are - far more than want a Blue Pullman.

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Modellers in 1960 would be puzzled by todays preoccupation with the somewhat obscure and at that time unexciting Blue Pullman (quote)

 

I guess it depends on the modeller! I can remember, as a 14 year old trainspotter the first time I saw the Blue Pullman at Iver. I had no idea what it was or that such a train even existed, and I was utterly blown away. It was WAY the most exciting thing around - until a certain sandy coloured diesel-hydraulic showed up, anyway! I was so keen to have a model that I began the abandonment of my Hornby-Dublo three-rail system, in favour of two-rail because the Kitmaster motor bogie was only available in two-rail.

CHRIS LEIGH

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Anyone told Alan Whitehouse yet ? Was BBC's transport correspondent here in Look Northwest land, though not sure where he is now. He has a superb 2mm Woodhead layout, and is a big Woodhead fan, and has authored books on the line. Top bloke as well, according to my BBC source.

Hasn't moved far - he's on BBC Look North now in Yorkshireland. Was on the other night talking about keeping key canal wharves free from fancy flat developments in Leeds.

Is that the small Woodhead layout about 6ft wide that's on the exhibition circuit? Has a row of burnt-out terraced houses.

(sorry, nearly on-topic)

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Judging by their web site, an RTR EM1/Class 76 is already available from Silver Fox http://www.silverfoxmodels.co.uk/british_rail_electric_locomotives/british_rail_beyer_peacock_electric_locomotive_em1_class_76.htm along with the EM2/77 http://www.silverfoxmodels.co.uk/british_rail_electric_locomotives/british_rail_metropolitan_vickers_electric_locomotive_em2_class_77.htm and the Class 28

http://www.silverfoxmodels.co.uk/british_rail_diesel_locomotives/british_rail_metropolitan_vickers_diesel_locomotive_class_28_co-bo.htm

 

What's the view on these? Silver Fox had them at Warley, and they looked reasonable to me.

 

There have been EM1/76 kits from DC Kits, MTK, and MSL Hobbies available for several years, not to mention the original 1960s Trix EM1s and Triang EM2s, and the HD Class 28. So will there actually be a large enough demand for the Olivias/Heljan 76 and Hattons/Heljan 28 models?

 

The Blue Pullman probably will sell as it always features in wish list polls. I wonder if Hornby regret not sorting out the old Triang one, they must still have the tooling somewhere, and I believe there was talk a year or so back of them re-releasing the Triang 77 as a "heritage" model.

 

The 28 is a strange choice for the Hattons limited edition as the original HD model was a terrible seller in the 1960s, probably partly due to it being a poor model in the first place no doubt, but it is hardly a charismatic loco.

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an RTR EM1/Class 76 is already available from Silver Fox http://www.silverfox...m1_class_76.htm along with the EM2/77 http://www.silverfox...m2_class_77.htm ... What's the view on these? ...

 

There have been EM1/76 kits from DC Kits, MTK, and MSL Hobbies available for several years, not to mention the original 1960s Trix EM1s and Triang EM2s... So will there actually be a large enough demand for the Olivias/Heljan 76 ...?

 

Thanks for the link -- I had a look, but those models seem to have massive bottle openers stuck on the front of them...

 

It feels to me like the market has a rapacious appetite for super-detailed versions of models that have traditionally sold well -- from Britannia locomotives (how many of those have been sold over the last half century? Didn't seem to stop Hornby making a profit from a new version) to Mk1 coaches. Super-detailed models feel to me like an entirely different sort of product from the older versions: and I've happily bought super-detailed "replacements" for things I already have (without actually disposing of thosee things I already had...).

 

But neither old-style nor super-detailed EM1s/76s and EM2s/77s have been available (from Hornby/Bachmann/Heljan) in the few years I've been buying models, so I imagine there are significant numbers of us who would be in the market for these. I have a soft spot for pre-Class 87 electrics anyway, as you might guess from my avatar, so even though these are far away from anything I've been modelling until now, I'm pretty certain I'll be getting several of each. Yeah...

 

Paul

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The class 76 link did show a lot more info and pictures when it first went 'live', looks like someone pointed out MR was supposed to have an exclusive! Not sure where the /77 came from, hopefully not the person doing the research!

 

The Blue Pullman probably will sell as it always features in wish list polls. I wonder if Hornby regret not sorting out the old Triang one, they must still have the tooling somewhere, and I believe there was talk a year or so back of them re-releasing the Triang 77 as a "heritage" model.

 

The 28 is a strange choice for the Hattons limited edition as the original HD model was a terrible seller in the 1960s, probably partly due to it being a poor model in the first place no doubt, but it is hardly a charismatic loco.

 

Wish lists and sales probably aren't always a 1:1.. I doubt you can compare this to the Triang one, i'd certainly not have rushed out to buy something that floods eBay 2nd hand at much more wonga..

 

On your second point I don't think its fair comparing now and then. At the time there weren't many diesels modelled at all and HD went and modelled a tindy class that many buying models had probably never seen or heard of! Now there aren't many classes left to do and Heljan classed the 15 as 'viable for main range' its unsurprising they went for a 28. That's not even considering Kestrel, Lion and Falcon have also been commercially realised!

 

 

John, your transfers are brilliant but i'd rather not use em on a brand new model ;).I'd certainly keep your Kitmaster one until these have been seen!

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What's the view on these? Silver Fox had them at Warley, and they looked reasonable to me.

 

There have been EM1/76 kits from DC Kits, MTK, and MSL Hobbies available for several years, not to mention the original 1960s Trix EM1s and Triang EM2s, and the HD Class 28. So will there actually be a large enough demand for the Olivias/Heljan 76 and Hattons/Heljan 28 models?

 

The Blue Pullman probably will sell as it always features in wish list polls. I wonder if Hornby regret not sorting out the old Triang one, they must still have the tooling somewhere, and I believe there was talk a year or so back of them re-releasing the Triang 77 as a "heritage" model.

 

The 28 is a strange choice for the Hattons limited edition as the original HD model was a terrible seller in the 1960s, probably partly due to it being a poor model in the first place no doubt, but it is hardly a charismatic loco.

 

The problem is (although it clearly isn't an issue for the manufacturers), is the average "modeller" in 2010 doesn't want to build locomotive kits. Maybe this is because they are fearful that as soon as the loco they have spent months slaving over takes it's first run around their layout, a manufacturer will announce a RTR model. Or maybe it's because they haven't the skill to complete a kit to the average RTE standard. When I was a teenager I started to build and motorise an Airfix "City", with obvious results. It didn't take too long to consider purchasing the NRM limited edition model, as I knew in this case that 20 years on my lining skills weren't as good as the factory finish.

 

Going back to more mundane prototypes, the class 17 "Clayton" has been the subject of a variety of kits, including an excellent Judith Edge model and another available as a built, RTR loco, yet Heljan obviously felt their release would generate enough RTR sales to make their investment worthwhile. And then there's the Vi Trains 37 and 47. Nothing new really, but they've sold very well in a market where purchasers can be sceptical of new manufacturers and even avoid certain ones completely.

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Am I right in thinking that Midland Pullmans were stabled/serviced at Reddish? That'd make an interesting TMD style layout. Can't see a 506 coming though!

 

Yes, you're correct.

 

Do we know if it's the 6-car Midland Pullman that's being planned, or the WR one? If the former, then maybe someone at Heljan is a closet Midland Mainline fan of c1960, what with the announcement of the Metrovick Co-Bo too.

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Yes, you're correct.

 

Do we know if it's the 6-car Midland Pullman that's being planned, or the WR one? If the former, then maybe someone at Heljan is a closet Midland Mainline fan of c1960, what with the announcement of the Metrovick Co-Bo too.

These are commissions from retailers not Heljan going it alone, so I doubt anyone at Heljan is specifically interested. I could be wrong though.

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Hi folks,

I think these announcements (and the 28) are great news for the hobby. There seems to be so many negative comments on models which we havent even seen screenshots on yet, never mind finished items, almost to the extent that the manufacturers are expected to get it wrong. I know that all the main manufacturers (and smaller ones too) have made errors on shape/detail/livery application etc, but how about giving them a chance until physical models are seen?

 

The models that have, what some would say, serious errors, such as the original Bach 37/4 and HJ 33/0 still sold well, possibly because the majority of folk buying them dont notice the differences that more experienced modellers do (I've been modelling a good number of years and I struggled to see the errors until they were pointed out). No matter how finely captured a model is, such as the HJ Hymek, its still runs on incorrect 16.5mm gauge track, unless you have more prototypical standards, which the majority dont. Plus collectors, who put an awful lot of money back into the hobby, buy each edition to keep their collection up to date.

 

I understand when folk are disappointed when they have spent £100+ on a model that they consider incorrect, well, dont buy it in the first place or if pre-ordered, send it back, instead of keeping it and grumbling on how much money has been wasted.

 

The loco that I desire most is a Class 29 and if Heljan (who appear to be getting the most flak) or any of the other manufacturers were to announce it, I would be over the moon, as it would give me a loco to set the scene on my layout, but it would have to be terribly wrong for me not to buy one or more.

 

I set out to model a representation of the railway at a certain period of time and having the correct motive power, stock and railway/non-railway details is more important to me than the shape of a windscreen wiper.

 

Just my 2p on this discussion.

 

Cheers

 

Joe

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I always fancied getting a BP but up to modern standards, I'm surprised though that it had to come from a retailer to do a special comission for it to make an appearance.

 

I'm not sure I can really go for a 76 though but then again I'm a Sheffield lad so if they look right I may just be tempted.

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Great news, but on both items a big please from all RMWEB supporters of Heljan , take your time to use all the subject matters available and so to avoid the past school boy errors , and can we have some better production quality control.

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Come on Gents... why don't we wait until we know something more rather than adding the froth that, although predicted by the OP,I'm sure we don't really need... it's only a week for goodness sake ;)

 

... and even then let's wait until it's in our hands before we start complimenting its strengths or bemoaning it's errors :blink:

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Come on Gents... why don't we wait until we know something more rather than adding the froth that, although predicted by the OP,I'm sure we don't really need... it's only a week for goodness sake ;)

 

... and even then let's wait until it's in our hands before we start complimenting its strengths or bemoaning it's errors :blink:

 

Hi

 

But by then its too late.

 

It would be better if Heljan listened to the comments made on their CAD drawings and actually modified them instead of carrying on with something thats not right.

 

I for one would like a pair of 76s but I will not spend money on something that isn't right especially as I would only have them on display on a shelf as I model in 2mm not 4mm.

 

I do agree though that the product can't be critised until there is actually something to look at in the form of a CAD drawing.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

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