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Aire Head

4mm RTR Coaches

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I am currently trying to plan future purchases for some fixed rakes.

 

My intention is not to model particular working but at the same time model something that looks right nonetheless.

 

The workings I intend to represent are the "regular" passenger trains that travelled along the Aire Valley line in the 1950s  between Leeds, Bradford, Carlisle, Lancaster/Morecambe etc.

 

From the photographs I have seen these are predominantly composed of former LMS corridor stock.

 

I do not currently possess the time and skills to kit and scratch build (Dapol kits I can manage) so I want to use what ready to run stock is available to do this.

 

As far as I am aware the following models are/have been made in RTR

 

Dapol

60' Corridor Composite "Period 3"

57' Brake Corridor Third "Period 3"

 

Replica

57' Open Third "Period 3"

 

Replica/Mainline/Bachmann

57' Corridor Composite "Period1/2"

57' Brake Corridor Third "Period 1/2"

 

Hornby

57' Corridor First "Period 3"

57' Corridor Third "Period 3"

57' Brake Corridor Third "Period 3"

 

Bachmann

"Porthole" range

 

I am afraid I don't know the current models shown by the new Bachmann range.

 

Is there anything else I've missed?

 

Which of these models depict coaches likely to have appear on such workings?

 

 

 

Edited by Aire Head

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The Dapol coaches started out with Airfix. Dapol did also make a 6 wheel restaurant car which came with both an accurate chassis and an unaccurate one for setrack curves. They sold the toolings to Hornby but the accurate chassis ones seem to have got lost as Hornby have only released it on the "train set" chassis

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13 minutes ago, Butler Henderson said:

The Dapol coaches started out with Airfix. Dapol did also make a 6 wheel restaurant car which came with both an accurate chassis and an unaccurate one for setrack curves. They sold the toolings to Hornby but the accurate chassis ones seem to have got lost as Hornby have only released it on the "train set" chassis

 

Good point!

 

I did leave out the restaurant and non Corridors as I didn't think they would be seen on the type of workings I want to represent.

 

That said it's probably a good idea to compile a list of all of the models that have been available over the years!

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Replica sold a Period 3 Vestibule 3rd around 1990 based on a model Arfix had planned to produce. It was made for Replica by Kader but has never appeared in the Bachmann range unlike the Period 1 coaches originally sold by Mainline; those were improved during Replicas access to the toolings with individual roof ventilators and softer corridor connections (Source Ramsays British Model Trains Catalogue)

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1 minute ago, Butler Henderson said:

Replica sold a Period 3 Vestibule 3rd around 1990 based on a model Arfix had planned to produce. It was made for Replica by Kader but has never appeared in the Bachmann range unlike the Period 1 coaches originally sold by Mainline; those were improved during Replicas access to the toolings with individual roof ventilators and softer corridor connections (Source Ramsays British Model Trains Catalogue)

 

I had listed this as an Open Third, I will correct this on the list.

 

Thank you

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10 hours ago, Aire Head said:

 

I had listed this as an Open Third, I will correct this on the list.

 

Thank you

Hi,

 

Open and vestibule are the same thing, just different terminology. I'd stick with 'open' as it's what is used for the BR carriage codes (TO/ SO third/ second open), and it's less letters. One issue I'd look at for is mixing coaches from different makers as they may not be a close match in terms of body colour, lining, or general appearance. I don't model in 4mm so I am not an expert on 4mm RTR coaches but I think it may be worth thinking about this.

 

Nig H

Edited by Nig H
amplification

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1 hour ago, Nig H said:

Hi,

 

Open and vestibule are the same thing, just different terminology. I'd stick with 'open' as it's what is used for the BR carriage codes (TO/ SO third/ second open), and it's less letters. One issue I'd look at for is mixing coaches from different makers as they may not be a close match in terms of body colour, lining, or general appearance. I don't model in 4mm so I am not an expert on 4mm RTR coaches but I think it may be worth thinking about this.

 

Nig H

 

I am expecting a degree of variation, I also suspect that the real versions did have this issue.

 

All of them will be getting weathered aswell which should go towards making them look a bit more uniform.

 

It's certainly something I will keep an eye on though!

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So having sat down and worked out what was available I've settled on 2 rakes.

 

One made up of older models and one made up of the newer models to avoid obvious differences in details.

 

First rake

BTK (P1 Bachmann), CK (P3 Dapol/Airfix), CK (P1 Bachmann), TO (P3 Replica), BTK (P3 Dapol/Airfix)

Second Rake

BTK (Bachmann Porthole), CK (Bachmann Porthole), TK (Hornby P3), TK (Bachmann Porthole), BTK (Hornby P3).

 

I am satisfied that they would give the appearance of the typical jumbled appearance of trains composed of exLMS stock typical of the period.

 

However I would like to know if the formations seem reasonably realistic.

 

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On ‎11‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 09:58, Aire Head said:

 

I am expecting a degree of variation, I also suspect that the real versions did have this issue.!

Indeed with hand mixed paints until the mid 1960s together with the weathering effects of a steam railway in particular slight variations in colour could have arisen. I have seen a picture of a BR(SR) rake with each coach subtly different. More problematic is different thicknesses of lining. Airfix coaches were considered by many to be too dark in colour but that could be radically improved by a coat of varnish.

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1 hour ago, Butler Henderson said:

Indeed with hand mixed paints until the mid 1960s together with the weathering effects of a steam railway in particular slight variations in colour could have arisen. I have seen a picture of a BR(SR) rake with each coach subtly different. More problematic is different thicknesses of lining. Airfix coaches were considered by many to be too dark in colour but that could be radically improved by a coat of varnish.

 

I'm at the stage in my modelling career where I feel ready to tackle painting coach liveries so I am prepared to tackle any major issues!

 

Fortunately I have a good amount of useless coaches to practice on :P

 

Having looked at the choice I'm already considering the later Dapol coaches as the Crimson and Cream seems to better match what else is currently on the market.

 

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On 15/12/2019 at 10:29, Aire Head said:

So having sat down and worked out what was available I've settled on 2 rakes.

 

One made up of older models and one made up of the newer models to avoid obvious differences in details.

 

First rake

BTK (P1 Bachmann), CK (P3 Dapol/Airfix), CK (P1 Bachmann), TO (P3 Replica), BTK (P3 Dapol/Airfix)

Second Rake

BTK (Bachmann Porthole), CK (Bachmann Porthole), TK (Hornby P3), TK (Bachmann Porthole), BTK (Hornby P3).

 

I am satisfied that they would give the appearance of the typical jumbled appearance of trains composed of exLMS stock typical of the period.

 

However I would like to know if the formations seem reasonably realistic.

 

The LMS and LMR liked 3 and 4 car sets. 

The composition of 4 car these were of the style BTK, CK, TO ,BTK.

 

But, looking at some photos in various books the strengthener coaches added to these could include no corridor stock as well as FK/FO depending on what was available or to suite special requirements. 

 

Some of the "newer" BR built Stanier stock took a while to cascade down into local sets (until the BR Mark1s had been delivered and put into mainline express sets there was no possibilitt of cascading the newer stock down).

 

Baz

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On 15/12/2019 at 21:29, Aire Head said:

So having sat down and worked out what was available I've settled on 2 rakes.

 

One made up of older models and one made up of the newer models to avoid obvious differences in details.

 

First rake

BTK (P1 Bachmann), CK (P3 Dapol/Airfix), CK (P1 Bachmann), TO (P3 Replica), BTK (P3 Dapol/Airfix)

Second Rake

BTK (Bachmann Porthole), CK (Bachmann Porthole), TK (Hornby P3), TK (Bachmann Porthole), BTK (Hornby P3).

 

I am satisfied that they would give the appearance of the typical jumbled appearance of trains composed of exLMS stock typical of the period.

 

However I would like to know if the formations seem reasonably realistic.

 

Don't forget you can add on vehicles like 50ft Brake (Bachmann), 42ft GUV (Lima and someone more recent?) and 6 wheel stove (Dapol), but some work is required.

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On 27/12/2019 at 06:41, Barry O said:

The LMS and LMR liked 3 and 4 car sets. 

The composition of 4 car these were of the style BTK, CK, TO ,BTK.

 

But, looking at some photos in various books the strengthener coaches added to these could include no corridor stock as well as FK/FO depending on what was available or to suite special requirements. 

 

Some of the "newer" BR built Stanier stock took a while to cascade down into local sets (until the BR Mark1s had been delivered and put into mainline express sets there was no possibilitt of cascading the newer stock down).

 

Baz

I thought the usual composition was BTK/TK/CK/BTK, called 'inter-corridor' sets. This is what David Jenkinson says in LMS Coaches volume 1. He does add that occasionally a TO was used instead of the TK. The three car set was BTK/CK/BTK.

 

Nig H

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Check with photos. Some sets were mixed up. I have a photo of a manchester central to Derby train with a BTK/TK/TO/BTK Combination. It just depends on coach availabilty.

 

Baz

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13 hours ago, kevinlms said:

Don't forget you can add on vehicles like 50ft Brake (Bachmann), 42ft GUV (Lima and someone more recent?) and 6 wheel stove (Dapol), but some work is required.

 

I've only seen the 42ft GUV from Lima. I didn't include NPCCS. The 50ft Brake is also available from Hornby.

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