PatriotClass Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 Hi there! I am planning to design a 3D print of a 00 LMS Claughton Class body shell. As leading and driving wheel diameters are identical, I think using a Patriot Class chassis would suit the Claughton well. The Hornby engine driven model is a reliable runner. On the web I found just this small copy of a drawing. Does anybody know the source of this picture or even a book, where I could find a scale drawing of this unique engine? Cheers Chris 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMS2968 Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 'Claughton & Patriot 4-6-0s' by G. Toms and R.J. Essery (2006) Wild Swan Publications Ltd, Didcot ISBN 1 905184 19 0 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 19 hours ago, PatriotClass said: Hi there! I am planning to design a 3D print of a 00 LMS Claughton Class body shell. As leading and driving wheel diameters are identical, I think using a Patriot Class chassis would suit the Claughton well. The Hornby engine driven model is a reliable runner. On the web I found just this small copy of a drawing. Does anybody know the source of this picture or even a book, where I could find a scale drawing of this unique engine? Cheers Chris Unique??? There was 130 of them. I do like the idea though as some ran on the Midland lines after grouping. Will you be catering for modified cabs and ROD tenders? Then there's the large boiler version as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 Railway Modeller September 1985 has an article on a plasticard scratchbuilt Claughton, which (I think) has an Ian Beattie drawing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatriotClass Posted December 18, 2019 Author Share Posted December 18, 2019 Quote Unique??? There was 130 of them. I mean more its unique design. As I saw a picture of this locomotive, I knew at once that I have to model it. I have seen a picture of the large boiler version. Can you tell, what means ROD tender? Is it rail operation division? Do they used this type of tenders on the LMS? Quote Claughton & Patriot 4-6-0s' by G. Toms and R.J. Essery (2006) Wild Swan Publications Ltd, Didcot ISBN 1 905184 19 0 Thanks for this hint! I just ordered a copy at Amazon's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, PatriotClass said: Can you tell, what means ROD tender? Is it rail operation division? Do they used this type of tenders on the LMS? After the Royal Scots were introduced, some Claughtons were released for transfer to the former Midland lines where larger locos were needed. Because (I think) of the greater distances between water troughs on that line, tenders with more water capacity were needed so those from ex ROD (yes - Railway Operating Division) 2-8-0s were fitted. Pictures of Claughtons on the Midland Division show this arrangement together with the cut down cab corners to fit the Midland loading gauge. Edit so say it's all explained in the book. Edited December 19, 2019 by Poor Old Bruce 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted December 19, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 19, 2019 The LMS and GWR both bought ex ROD 2-8-0s after the end of WW1 (very cheaply), when the loco boilers (mostly steel fireboxes) were worn out they were scrapped but the GC design tenders were still serviceable so they were re-used with other locos. The LMS used them behind Claughtons, the GW used them for 2251 0-6-0s and Aberdare 2-6-0s. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted December 19, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 19, 2019 On 11/12/2019 at 14:43, LMS2968 said: 'Claughton & Patriot 4-6-0s' by G. Toms and R.J. Essery (2006) Wild Swan Publications Ltd, Didcot ISBN 1 905184 19 0 That is the must-have book. As a supplement, E. Talbot, An Illustrated History of LNWR Engines (OPC, 1985) though I doubt it adds very much. It would be well worth while contacting the LNWR Society to see if they hold any drawings or other info in their collection or can point you in the right direction. Check, though, that the motor etc. of the Hornby Patrioy will fit within the outline of the smaller-boilered Claughton. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 16 minutes ago, Compound2632 said: Check, though, that the motor etc. of the Hornby Patriot will fit within the outline of the smaller-boilered Claughton. Whatever you do, I would advise against using a Hornby Patriot tender-drive tender as it is an awful caricature. Unsuitable for a Claughton anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted December 19, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 19, 2019 1 hour ago, Poor Old Bruce said: Whatever you do, I would advise against using a Hornby Patriot tender-drive tender as it is an awful caricature. Unsuitable for a Claughton anyway. The tender drive unit's wheelbase is wrong for an LMS standard tender let alone a Claughton tender. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatriotClass Posted December 21, 2019 Author Share Posted December 21, 2019 Quote I would advise against using a Hornby Patriot tender-drive tender Oh, I never would do this! The tender drive Patriot is a poor performer and the big ringfield motor would never fit in the Claughton's tender. Hornby released a more rare to get series of Patriots with loco drive like the Illustrious. Here I thought about using the loco chassis and reconstruct the tender from scratch according to the drawings. Or does anybody now a better fitting model to use the mechanism? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatriotClass Posted August 19, 2020 Author Share Posted August 19, 2020 I got some PMs on this thread and so I would like to give an update about this project: The Claughton body is 3D ready in four versions so far, but I am not so happy with the Patriot chassis. First of all there is a different configuration of the valve gear and connecting rod. The Patriot gear is linked to the center driver. On the Claughton it is the leading wheel set. I tried the gear set of a Schools Class, but even this turned out to long. An optical issue arises using the Patriot's driving wheels. The counterweights are competely wrong for the Claughton. And the third problem is the height of the chassis. Although I turned the motor by 90°, it is about 1 and a half milimeters to high for the old Claughton. It fits just the rebuilt boiler version exactly. I am still working on these issues. Alan Gibson offers neutral driving wheels without counterweights. And shortening the rods is just a soldering challenge. As plan B I am working on a universal x-6-x chassis that will be a combination of 3D printed frame and brass parts. It should fit not only the Claughton, but as well the Prince of Wales and the Experiment. Below the line up is the 650, the Caprotti, the rebuilt boiler and a version with these wind panels attached (sorry, I don't know the correct Englsh word for "Windleitblech" ) The original tender is ready as well. I will make a ROD and an oil burner - the one with the oil barrel on it. 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMS2968 Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 Like it! I'm sure you'll find the solutions. The word(s) you are looking for is 'smoke deflectors'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 The original Claughton valve gear would be a challenge unless an etching was provided. I think a Patriot valve gear can be found in the Comet range. Looking good! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted August 20, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 20, 2020 (edited) 17 hours ago, PatriotClass said: I got some PMs on this thread and so I would like to give an update about this project: The Claughton body is 3D ready in four versions so far, but I am not so happy with the Patriot chassis. First of all there is a different configuration of the valve gear and connecting rod. The Patriot gear is linked to the center driver. On the Claughton it is the leading wheel set. I tried the gear set of a Schools Class, but even this turned out to long. An optical issue arises using the Patriot's driving wheels. The counterweights are competely wrong for the Claughton. And the third problem is the height of the chassis. Although I turned the motor by 90°, it is about 1 and a half milimeters to high for the old Claughton. It fits just the rebuilt boiler version exactly. I am still working on these issues. Alan Gibson offers neutral driving wheels without counterweights. And shortening the rods is just a soldering challenge. As plan B I am working on a universal x-6-x chassis that will be a combination of 3D printed frame and brass parts. It should fit not only the Claughton, but as well the Prince of Wales and the Experiment. Below the line up is the 650, the Caprotti, the rebuilt boiler and a version with these wind panels attached (sorry, I don't know the correct Englsh word for "Windleitblech" ) The original tender is ready as well. I will make a ROD and an oil burner - the one with the oil barrel on it. Have you considered using the post 2006 Hornby chassis (used on the rebuilt Scots/Patriots too?) The Royal Scot driving wheels, same rtr Hornby chassis as a Patriot, but the balance weights are much closer to a Claughton. https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/br-4-6-0-the-ranger-46165-royal-scot-class-late-br-green.html Would the cylinder connecting rod of a Bachmann compound (also 6’9”drivers) work for Claughton connecting rod ? Edited August 20, 2020 by adb968008 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatriotClass Posted August 22, 2020 Author Share Posted August 22, 2020 On 20/08/2020 at 11:02, adb968008 said: The Royal Scot driving wheels, same rtr Hornby chassis as a Patriot, but the balance weights are much closer to a Claughton. Oh yes. That's a good hint. I will check where to get the wheel sets. On 20/08/2020 at 11:02, adb968008 said: Would the cylinder connecting rod of a Bachmann compound (also 6’9”drivers) work for Claughton connecting rod ? The rod should work. I'd have to adjust the position of the cylinder a little bit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatriotClass Posted August 30, 2020 Author Share Posted August 30, 2020 Good evening Here an update to the project. Now the first prints are ready - well, they are really not the first, but the first that are worse to show. I managed both versions, the 650 Claughton and the rebuilt boiler to ride on the Hornby Patriot chassis of the Illustrious. The shaft of the front bogie has to be made a bit longer. Maybe I will change the driving wheels by a set of Markits and print the original counterweights. For the Caprotti version, the Hornby X-Head 1534 and 1633 are definitively the solution. I just have to find the sliderails anywhere. To reproduce the Walscheart gear I will use the Schools Class X9925. 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buhar Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 The Claughtons also had distinctively large centres (bosses) on the driving wheels. Are you doing the prints yourself, they're looking really good. Alan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatriotClass Posted August 31, 2020 Author Share Posted August 31, 2020 15 hours ago, Buhar said: The Claughtons also had distinctively large centres (bosses) on the driving wheels. Yes, that's a characteristic detail. As the counterweights, I will print them on my resin printer in appx. 0,4 mm and super-glue them on the Drivers. 15 hours ago, Buhar said: Are you doing the prints yourself, they're looking really good. Thanks! Yes, I printed them on my Elago Mars resin Printer. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brocp Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 Following this with very keen interest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatriotClass Posted December 19, 2020 Author Share Posted December 19, 2020 (edited) Hello Guys! A new update on this project. The Hornby Patriot chassis did a good job to get this model on rails. Here a short video showing it in motion. The valve gear is a spear part from a Schools-Class and had to be shortened. But at the end it's a shame to demolish an Illustrious, especially to mention, it's a rare model too. So I started three month ago working on a chassis. There is a long list of try and errors and now I have a cigar box full of motors that did not work. Finally I found a 5 pole motor on Ebay that has double shaft and enough torque to allow smooth and slow operation. The gear is 1:105 ratio. The drive acts on the second driving wheel pair. Here the connecting rod is a PLA print and the valve gear is a modified Hornby A1 spare. I will use for the next version a Princess valve gear, because it comes closer to the prototype. To increase the weight and stability of the resin chassis, I added brass parts. The bogie is a Hornby Patriot spare. Finally a Lenz basic decoder assures good control. To show it in motion I made a short Youtube Video - and yes - shame on me, I hooked the wrong tender to the Claughton. Edited December 19, 2020 by PatriotClass 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 I was really confused by this post, as it's in prototype questions I was thinking there was some Claughton build underway, funded in part by Hornby and using parts recovered from a Schools Class loco - rare indeed if you cut up a real one to create an LNWR loco. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatriotClass Posted December 20, 2020 Author Share Posted December 20, 2020 Quote I was really confused by this post, as it's in prototype questions Yes, you are absolutely right. This has changed from a prototype question to a scratchbuilding project and got misplaced now in this section. I stop this here and open a new thread in "Scratchbuilding". Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted December 20, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 20, 2020 2 hours ago, PatriotClass said: Yes, you are absolutely right. This has changed from a prototype question to a scratchbuilding project and got misplaced now in this section. I stop this here and open a new thread in "Scratchbuilding". No need to do that. You can ask the moderators to move this thread. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hodgson Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 On 19/08/2020 at 16:55, PatriotClass said: Below the line up is the 650, the Caprotti, the rebuilt boiler and a version with these wind panels attached (sorry, I don't know the correct Englsh word for "Windleitblech" ) Don't worry, I had never heard their German name - we call them smoke deflectors. I have only just seen this thread, I have always liked the Claughtons, especially the larger boiler version but without smoke deflectors. They seem to be a notable omission from the RTR market although kits have been available. I understand the reason for those oval holes above the driving wheels was to allow access for lubricating the coupling rods. Excellent work on the 3D print, congratulations 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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