Industrial prototype trackplans? Esp NCB

[Ralf]

Hi all,

 

struggling to commit and decide on anything modelling-wise at the moment it’s a been a year plus since I thought I was close but some many potential problems / issues put me off and leave procrastination as the easy option. 

 

So in an effort to put this off and choose between an Inglenook, SMS Box thing or a 6x2ft Tim Horn photo box.... Well what we do know is it’s going to be industrial, probably NCB and likely central works / wagon repair depots - but...

 

Where would I go to for NCB trackplans? Ideally annotated / labelled, I know there’s well illustrated loco shed or colliery books but they’re not historical books including track plans, whereas historical detailed work is mostly words and facts not track plans and inspiration.

 

So if you were an industrial NCB track plan, particularly for a larger site, (of which I’d model a corner) where would you hide??

 

Hoping the answer isn’t - countless vintage online map searches! 

 

Many thanks for any thoughts on either decision making / commitment or possible track plans, currently everything I consider is quickly discounted for one reason or another and I’m very tired with myself for that.

 

Cheers

Ralf 

[Neil]

Sounds like you need to visit the Old Maps website. Enter the name of the place you wish to view in the search box. You will then get a list of the maps by date and their scales. You need to choose one of the larger scale examples as without subscribing to the site you're only allowed one zoom or increase in magnification; I'd suggest 1:2500 or 1:1250 will give the resolution you require. Here's a quick screen grab of the York Corporation yard which should show what you can get.

 

[doilum]

You could also try the National Mining Museum at Caphouse. They have an extensive library and archive. The problem with most collieries was their size. A quarter of a square mile would be typical of a small / medium sized 20th century operation and would need over 100 wagons to do it justice. There were smaller mines but they really belong to the pre grouping era.

You could model a canal basin loading drop or an opencast concentration point, or how about Dom Pedro. Long after it wound its last coal it was retained as a ventilation and man riding shaft. A weekly wagon or two of coal was brought to the mine for the fires and baths and a couple of wagons of manure taken away. The underground stables of the Briggs complex were close to the pit bottom.

With collieries everything is bigger than you imagine. Even loco sheds and wagon repair shops have cathedral like structures. Best to forget accurate scale recreations and build something that you like from one of the books

[KeithMacdonald]

if you want to find a smaller or unusual coal mine, you could try the interactive map here:

https://www.nmrs.org.uk/mines-map/coal-mining-in-the-british-isles/

 

Even more on this version, but harder to use?

https://www.nmrs.org.uk/mines-map/coal-mining-in-the-british-isles/collieries-of-the-british-isles/coal-mines-england/

 

That's how I found the coal mine in Bideford, Devon. Before that, I never even knew there were coal mines in Devon.

[KeithMacdonald]

Alternatively, as an excuse for an even smaller mining scene, you could try any of the very many iron and non-ferrous mines.

 

Lots to choose from in the Peak District or Devon & Cornwall?

 

https://www.nmrs.org.uk/mines-map/iron-mining-in-the-british-isles/iron-mines-of-the-british-isles/

 

https://www.nmrs.org.uk/mines-map/metal/non-ferrous-mines-of-the-british-isles/non-ferrous-mines-england-2d-mapping/

 

 

[Gordon A]

How about the colliery wagon workshops and engineering base at Elsecar for a number of collieries.

Unfortunately there server is causing them problems so the web page is not much use.

A look at Google maps will give you some idea. Also a look at Elsecar Heritage Centre for most of the associated buildings.

 

Gordon A 

[Fat Controller]

During the 1980s, we used to live next to an old Co.Durham pit called 'Clara Vale'. Situated on the southern banks of the Tyne, the old pit (closed in the mid-1960s) was divided in two by the railway from Newcastle to Carlisle. The screens were on the riverbank, fed by either an overhead bucket or conveyer (it had been 'recovered' by the time we moved there) The two shafts, engine-house and other buildings were a few hundred yards to the south, with no apparent rail connections. It would be possible to model the screens and sidings as a 'stand-alone' site, ,with the pithead buildings painted on the backscene.

Edited December 12, 2019 by Fat Controller

[eastglosmog]

If you want to try a Forest of Dean mine, try the Severn and Wye Railway books (Vols 2,3 and 4) which have detailed descriptions of many of the collieries.  Archive magazine also has often had articles on collieries.

[Ralf]

1 hour ago, eastglosmog said:

If you want to try a Forest of Dean mine, try the Severn and Wye Railway books (Vols 2,3 and 4) which have detailed descriptions of many of the collieries.  Archive magazine also has often had articles on collieries.

 

Thanks, looks like I'd best find copies of the Severn & Wye books and dust off my collection of Railway Bylines... 

 

 

7 hours ago, doilum said:

You could model a canal basin loading drop or an opencast concentration point,

 

Tempted with a Canal Basin loading drop I must admit...

Advantage: It could be quite a distance from the vastness of the colliery... 

Disadvantage (should that say opportunity?): Wagons would need to be discharged somehow... 

 

8 hours ago, Neil said:

Sounds like you need to visit the Old Maps website. Enter the name of the place you wish to view in the search box.

Sounds like never ending fascination and years of fun BUT it wouldn't get any modelling done! 

 

Thanks all

 

Ralf

 

[doilum]

1 hour ago, Ralf said:

 

Thanks, looks like I'd best find copies of the Severn & Wye books and dust off my collection of Railway Bylines... 

 

 

 

Tempted with a Canal Basin loading drop I must admit...

Advantage: It could be quite a distance from the vastness of the colliery... 

Disadvantage (should that say opportunity?): Wagons would need to be discharged somehow... 

 

Sounds like never ending fascination and years of fun BUT it wouldn't get any modelling done! 

 

Thanks all

 

Ralf

 

Triang had a working 21ton hopper wagon back in the 1960s. Working end doors were part of my journey into the 7mm world.

[eastglosmog]

Should also have mentioned Pope and Karau's Forest of Dean Branch, vols 1 and 2 (Wild Swan) which also have details of a number of collieries.  Many of the Forest coal mines were pretty small.

[KeithMacdonald]

Would these help?

 

Narrowboats and Lock

 

 

 

https://scalescenes.com/product/t018-narrowboats-and-lock/

 

 

Bachmann Scenecraft Derelict Cornish Engine House

 

http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/38803/44-058Z-Bachmann-Scenecraft-Derelict-Cornish-Engine-House?fbclid=IwAR0A9qYB_pDC4FESoUnUCLIMiM1V6iG_AHI00iNL2OXhvo5bpfftpv1vhog

 

[Ralf]

On 12/12/2019 at 18:53, doilum said:

Triang had a working 21ton hopper wagon back in the 1960s. Working end doors were part of my journey into the 7mm world.

Stop it! I'm currently not interested into venturing into the 7mm world! 

 

4 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

Would these help?

 

Narrowboats and Lock

<SNIP>

Bachmann Scenecraft Derelict Cornish Engine House

 

 

Thanks but I think they only muddy the water!!!

 

Has anyone any photos / links / plans for Canal Coal Drops??? But having asked ½ of me is saying something more achievable would be a better beginners project!

 

Thanks
Ralf

 

[Ralf]

On 12/12/2019 at 16:02, eastglosmog said:

If you want to try a Forest of Dean mine, try the Severn and Wye Railway books (Vols 2,3 and 4) which have detailed descriptions of many of the collieries.  Archive magazine also has often had articles on collieries.

 

Thanks for info on these and the Pope and Karau's books, I see they seem to be desirable volumes, will keep my eyes open on popular internet auction sites I suppose...

 

Ralf

 

[The Bigbee Line]

On ‎12‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 09:54, Fat Controller said:

During the 1980s, we used to live next to an old Co.Durham pit called 'Clara Vale'. Situated on the southern banks of the Tyne, the old pit (closed in the mid-1960s) was divided in two by the railway from Newcastle to Carlisle. The screens were on the riverbank, fed by either an overhead bucket or conveyer (it had been 'recovered' by the time we moved there) The two shafts, engine-house and other buildings were a few hundred yards to the south, with no apparent rail connections. It would be possible to model the screens and sidings as a 'stand-alone' site, ,with the pithead buildings painted on the backscene.

Brian,

 

The 'Britain from above' website is good = https://britainfromabove.org.uk/en/image/EAW014548

[Ian Smeeton]

20 hours ago, Ralf said:

Stop it! I'm currently not interested into venturing into the 7mm world! 

 

 

Thanks but I think they only muddy the water!!!

 

Has anyone any photos / links / plans for Canal Coal Drops??? But having asked ½ of me is saying something more achievable would be a better beginners project!

 

Thanks
Ralf

 

 

 

Look for 'Brirtish Oak' in the 2mm section.

 

Regards

 

Ian

[doilum]

14 minutes ago, Ian Smeeton said:

 

 

Look for 'Brirtish Oak' in the 2mm section.

 

Regards

 

Ian

Perfect for the old Triang wagon in 4mm

[CKPR]

If you can get hold of a copy of Gifford & Gamble's 'Steam Railways in Industry', page 73 has a side on picture of the canal side discharge chute at British Oak and there was an article by Michael Andress in the Railway modeller in 1977 or 1978 on modelling the scene in this photograph.

[Ralf]

4 hours ago, CKPR said:

If you can get hold of a copy of Gifford & Gamble's 'Steam Railways in Industry', page 73 has a side on picture of the canal side discharge chute at British Oak and there was an article by Michael Andress in the Railway modeller in 1977 or 1978 on modelling the scene in this photograph.

 

£4 spent and book ordered! Tempted with a canal scene having admired this little layout. 

 

 

Have also purchased all Vols 2, 3 & 4 on the Forest of Dean and spending a lot of time drooling at them! 

 

Then again compressing Wirksworth is tempting too!! Ooohh decisions decisions... 

 

Ralf