The London Festival of Railway Modelling- 21 & 22 March 2020

[AY Mod]

2 hours ago, Claire RJ said:

We are seriously concerned about bringing Templeford to the show. All our operators are in their 60s and 70s. Several people do not feel able or willing to sign the self declaration form. I am wondering whether in actual fact several of the layouts have already pulled out given that their builders are often well into retirement. Reading the various other posts on the forum, a lot of people are thinking to not go in any case. If most of the traders and most of the layouts were to say they do not want to attend because of the Coronavirus situation, which is far more serious than some people are trying to suggest (they are probably the ones who have the most to lose financially, or to put it another way to not make financially), then there would not be much point in having the exhibition in any case. I personally think that the show should be cancelled, the risk to everyone who goes is just too great especially given the general ages of those who do go to shows of this nature. Is it worth us all putting our lives at risk, just for someone's financial gain?

 

You have to make your own assessment based on your health (and the risk to others if you cannot self-declare that you have not visited the Category 1 & 2 countries or not have any symptoms - which is what the forms are asking). Seek medical advice if necessary if you are unsure of your personal circumstances.

 

It is not a question of financial gain but about possible loss mitigation if circumstances escalated. If it was cancelled today the venue cost and hotel costs would be forfeit but if a cancellation was made following government instruction the losses may be covered by insurance.

 

Visitors and exhibitors can make their appropriate personal decisions but we intend to go ahead if it is right and sensible to go ahead. You sound as though you have made your mind up what is best for you (I am only aware of one other doubtful layout) so the other accusations make it sound like you are making us out to be unethical when we have been working with the venue to make it as safe and enjoyable as possible in the circumstances and openly communicating the current position.

 

We have to deal with all sorts of points of view in this respect and I had to tackle someone elsewhere who said he'd be coming even if he had symptoms. We are trying to do the right things so your post does come across as somewhat unfair.

[tc]

2 hours ago, Claire RJ said:

We are seriously concerned about bringing Templeford to the show. All our operators are in their 60s and 70s. Several people do not feel able or willing to sign the self declaration form. I am wondering whether in actual fact several of the layouts have already pulled out given that their builders are often well into retirement. Reading the various other posts on the forum, a lot of people are thinking to not go in any case. If most of the traders and most of the layouts were to say they do not want to attend because of the Coronavirus situation, which is far more serious than some people are trying to suggest (they are probably the ones who have the most to lose financially, or to put it another way to not make financially), then there would not be much point in having the exhibition in any case. I personally think that the show should be cancelled, the risk to everyone who goes is just too great especially given the general ages of those who do go to shows of this nature. Is it worth us all putting our lives at risk, just for someone's financial gain?

 

I and my team (John and Ian) are very happy to discuss the genuine concerns that some exhibitors (ie layouts and society stands) may have based on their specific circumstances, but I would rather do it by email and phone than in a public way on this forum - our details are readily available in all correspondence. It's a tricky situation, and we are all guided by the best and latest advice from Public Health England - and we will respect the decisions that individuals and groups make based on that advice and their personal circumstances. We (The MRC and Warners) will update via this forum and any other channels should there be changes to the publicised attendees.

 

Tom - MRC Exhibitions Manager 

[polybear]

11 hours ago, AY Mod said:

We have to deal with all sorts of points of view in this respect and I had to tackle someone elsewhere who said he'd be coming even if he had symptoms.

 

That's just the sort of person that will selfishly spread the virus left, right and centre.  I trust you jumped on him from a great height, or even better revoked his access to RMWeb?

[John M Upton]

The problem is you cannot physically stop anyone from travelling and or visiting anywhere, similarly you cannot enforce anyone to stay at home.

 

Closing schools for example will just result in thousands of school kids wandering the streets, they aren't going to sit at home and parents who have to work to pay the Bill's whether they have a sniffle or not are not going to be able to lock them in are they?

 

If this bug is to be allowed to run its course I would rather they just got on with and get it over with than delay. 

[digger62]

11 hours ago, tc said:

 

I and my team (John and Ian) are very happy to discuss the genuine concerns that some exhibitors (ie layouts and society stands) may have based on their specific circumstances, but I would rather do it by email and phone than in a public way on this forum - our details are readily available in all correspondence. It's a tricky situation, and we are all guided by the best and latest advice from Public Health England - and we will respect the decisions that individuals and groups make based on that advice and their personal circumstances. We (The MRC and Warners) will update via this forum and any other channels should there be changes to the publicised attendees.

 

Tom - MRC Exhibitions Manager 

Many thanks for this Tom.

 

As a visitor I am still hoping to attend whilst taking all necessary precautions however if a large number of exhibitors / traders do not attend it would be useful to know so that I can make an informed decision. I would not wish to get there and find that my favorites were not there.

 

I have an advanced ticket and accept that this would be forfeit should I not attend and the event not be cancelled.

 

I do not envy the dilemmas you and your team are going through.

 

Good luck and best wishes.

[AY Mod]

1 hour ago, polybear said:

I trust you jumped on him from a great height, or even better revoked his access to RMWeb?

 

It was on Facebook so I had to jump on him there, I dislike the prospect of getting sucked into the Factvoid but it couldn't go unaddressed.

[Captain Kernow]

13 hours ago, AY Mod said:

I had to tackle someone elsewhere who said he'd be coming even if he had symptoms.

It's hard to believe that someone could be so monumentally stupid and selfish, given the amount of national publicity about now about keeping safe and well.

 

[PaulRhB]

Unfortunately the media hyperbole works both ways, some are convinced it’s lethal others that it’s not a problem, while the majority understand it has serious consequences for certain groups. One of my colleagues has two conditions that put him at risk. Having just recovered from a serious chest infection he is rightly concerned so we are taking precautions that many would see as ott simply because it is proven it would be potentially dangerous to him. 
Fit people in their 60-70’s should be fine but if they have serious health issues with regular checkups required then simply call your Gp and ask for advice. A quick phone call doesn’t risk contact and takes up only a little extra time if you ask ‘would it be prudent to avoid big gatherings and tube travel?’ Be specific rather than asking lots of questions. 

Edited March 11, 2020 by PaulRhB

[Ian Hargrave]

22 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

Unfortunately the media hyperbole works both ways, some are convinced it’s lethal others that it’s not a problem, while the majority understand it has serious consequences for certain groups. One of my colleagues has two conditions that put him at risk. Having just recovered from a serious chest infection he is rightly concerned so we are taking precautions that many would see as ott simply because it is proven it would be potentially dangerous to him. 
Fit people in their 60-70’s should be fine but if they have serious health issues with regular checkups required then simply call your Gp and ask for advice. A quick phone call doesn’t risk contact and takes up only a little extra time if you ask ‘would it be prudent to avoid big gatherings and tube travel?’ Be specific rather than asking lots of questions. 

Good sound advice but the one flaw in it is “simply call your GP”. Er,not so simple.Getting a line takes forever and the most you will get from my practice is a request for a ring back from the gp This may not happen for some time.

 

    Surely if there is a concern of any kind,then best avoid the risk .

[PaulRhB]

19 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

Good sound advice but the one flaw in it is “simply call your GP”. Er,not so simple.Getting a line takes forever and the most you will get from my practice is a request for a ring back from the gp This may not happen for some time.

 

    Surely if there is a concern of any kind,then best avoid the risk .

Yes it can but as we are talking ten days to go there is currently plenty of time to do it and I’d suggest an afternoon call as generally they are busiest in the morning. Asking a set question also means your GP doesn’t actually need to talk to you but can get the nurse or receptionist to reply. 
 

The advice was aimed at the exhibitors concern expressed above whose dilemma requires more forethought than a previous day decision and has more consequences for their team and the show. People don’t want to let the show down but are confused with media speculation. So in these cases asking the GP now means a qualified decision to go or pull out that will be seen as sensible by the show too rather than just based on worries here. 

[PenrithBeacon]

48 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

...
A quick phone call doesn’t risk contact and takes up only a little extra time if you ask ‘would it be prudent to avoid big gatherings and tube travel?’ Be specific rather than asking lots of questions. 

Unless you are convinced you have this disease it's better not to ring your GP. They are far too busy to be replying to general questions. The BBC website, amongst others, has plenty of information and the first port of call is NHS 111.

 

 

[Ron Ron Ron]

53 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

...Fit people in their 60-70’s should be fine but if they have serious health issues with regular checkups required then simply call your Gp and ask for advice......

Surely it’s not just about the personal impact of coming into contact with the virus would have on you, but the risk of transporting it and infecting others, some of who may be more vulnerable.

Note that in Italy, nearly 25% of those infected (tested positive)  are between 19 and 59 years old.

 

.

[Ian Hargrave]

1 minute ago, PenrithBeacon said:

Unless you are convinced you have this disease it's better not to ring your GP. They are far too busy to be replying to general questions. The BBC website, amongst others, has plenty of information and the first port of call is NHS 111.

 

 

 
Exactly so.Response to queries varies between practices in any case.

 

With regard to NHS 111,much  is being made of its facilities in the media. I sincerely hope that there’s an improvement upon my two recent experiences with their response, entirely unconnected with this outbreak I should add.

[PaulRhB]

1 hour ago, PaulRhB said:

but if they have serious health issues with regular checkups required then simply call your Gp and ask for advice. 

 

29 minutes ago, PenrithBeacon said:

Unless you are convinced you have this disease it's better not to ring your GP. They are far too busy to be replying to general questions

 

 

I did say IF you already have serious health issues that require regular checkups.
 

Otherwise for generally fit people the general advice from the NHS site is fine. 

Edited March 11, 2020 by PaulRhB

[PaulRhB]

27 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

Surely it’s not just about the personal impact of coming into contact with the virus would have on you, but the risk of transporting it and infecting others, some of who may be more vulnerable.

Note that in Italy, nearly 25% of those infected (tested positive)  are between 19 and 59 years old.

 

.

The exhibitors were worried about the risks to their team of exposure to it, no one on here has suggested they might have it. 
The official advice we have in the transport industry is the real risk is to those with existing conditions listed. All I suggested was that if exhibitors teams include those with the known conditions such as respiratory problems, asthma or diabetes then it would be sensible to ask their GP’s advice. It wasn’t tell everyone to ring their GP! We have three at work who are in those categories and it’s important that everyone knows to reduce the risk to them. I know one has already taken advice and had useful help from their GP who told him to contact them in office hours or the hospital who can arrange a team to visit out of hours. He knows how to take early action without clogging up the system in a panic. 
They are dealing with a higher than usual phone workload and my dentist yesterday noted that too but they have put procedures in place and are making sure they are followed. 

[railroadbill]

2 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

 
Exactly so.Response to queries varies between practices in any case.

 

With regard to NHS 111,much  is being made of its facilities in the media. I sincerely hope that there’s an improvement upon my two recent experiences with their response, entirely unconnected with this outbreak I should add.

Ian,

 

The 111 website seems quite a good start in analysing what symptoms may mean, worth a go if one feels there is enough time to do that.  Their questions on covid-19 look helpful.

 

However, in terms of your experiences:

My story at 4am one morning after ringing 111, with some odd symptoms that I didn't recognise.    

 

After initial phone conversation:

111guy: from what you've told me I recommend you wait 3 days and see your GP.

Me: I think whatever's happening to me needs checking now.

111guy: Are you in pain?

Me well I'd say it's a lot of discomfort but not actually pain.

111guy:  no, are you in pain?

 

At which point I caught on and said yes, I'm in pain.

111guy: (sounded relieved)  in that case I can escalate your case and put you through to the duty paramedic.

 

Next voice on phone "Hi I'm Barry the duty paramedic, what's the problem?"

And I was home and dry.  The 111 people work from a script, they are there as an initial triage.   Barry the para was  there with open ended questions to  establish signs and symptoms.  Everything then went very efficiently, got a very quick appointment with the out of hours doctor who established the problem. Sorted.

 

So the moral of this 111 story is,  if you need to get beyond 111 to an emergency healthcare professional then PAIN is the keyword that opens the door.

 

(If things had got much worse then a 999 call would have been in order,  but sometimes you just need advice to know what to do next.  I didn't know then that what was happening to me could have been lethal).

 

Bill

 

 

 

Edited March 11, 2020 by railroadbill

[polybear]

One thing not mentioned much (at all?) so far is the possible risk to pets.

A diary (blog?) written by the first British Guy who had the virus (he's a Teacher in China) back in November made mention that his kitten was all of a sudden not playful and off his food (at the same time as he was ill) - the following day it was dead.  Coincidence, or linked?  I'll leave you to decide.

Might be worth bearing in mind when considering if you want to go or not.

As for GP advice, I'd suspect one of the following responses:

1.  "The Government has not yet advised against/shut down such events".  Just take the reasonable precautions."

OR

2.  "Do you really need to go - if not, don't"

 

Me?  Whilst in generally good health I'm seriously considering (probably will) bale out this year.  But the decision would be a lot harder come Railex and ExpoEM... 

Edited March 11, 2020 by polybear

[John K]

I have an idea

Why don’t we all speak about things we understand. I have seldom read such Ill-informed posts.

Please follow the advice given by the Chief Medical Officer.

If the advice changes then change your actions.

John K 

Edited March 11, 2020 by John K

[AY Mod]

1 hour ago, polybear said:

One thing not mentioned much (at all?) so far is the possible risk to pets

 

Hopefully not in the Ally Pally topic as that's a far more general potential discussion.

[thirty2a]

what layouts are people looking forward too...? 

[polybear]

10 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

Hopefully not in the Ally Pally topic as that's a far more general potential discussion.

 

...have you seen my photo....?

[long island jack]

1 hour ago, polybear said:

One thing not mentioned much (at all?) so far is the possible risk to pets.

 

I'll be bringing a Terrier with me, but should be ok, he's never been abroad!!!

[PenrithBeacon]

2 hours ago, polybear said:

One thing not mentioned much (at all?) so far is the possible risk to pets.

A diary (blog?) written by the first British Guy who had the virus (he's a Teacher in China) back in November made mention that his kitten was all of a sudden not playful and off his food (at the same time as he was ill) - the following day it was dead.  Coincidence, or linked?  I'll leave you to decide.

...

Me?  Whilst in generally good health I'm seriously considering (probably will) bale out this year.  But the decision would be a lot harder come Railex and ExpoEM... 

It is, I understand, possible for humans to transmit this disease to other mammals and advice has been given not to kiss (!) pets.

Personally I'm not given to kissing our cat, and I'd far rather that he didn't put his wet nose in my ear first thing.

I can sympathise re  Railex and ExpoEM but I think this crisis will be well over by then.

Cheers

Edited March 11, 2020 by PenrithBeacon
Spelling

[Ian Morgan]

Three terriers with me, including this one

 

 

[sharris]

8 hours ago, digger62 said:

As a visitor I am still hoping to attend whilst taking all necessary precautions however if a large number of exhibitors / traders do not attend it would be useful to know so that I can make an informed decision. I would not wish to get there and find that my favorites were not there.

 

Of course, you might find new favorites out of those that are there.