Rail Mounted cranes

[Gibbo675]

6 hours ago, TangoOscarMike said:

Good morning everyone

 

I see a selection of excellent crane models.

 

Clearly it's far easier to achieve realistic operations of a passenger train than realistic hands-off operations of a crane.

 

Has anybody here managed to motorise the moving parts and have their crane actually lift something? I can see many obstacles.

 

 

Hi Tom,

 

This ought to float your boat !

 

Gibbo.

 

[TangoOscarMike]

59 minutes ago, Gibbo675 said:

This ought to float your boat !

 

Aye, boat duly floated!

 

In real life, are rail mounted cranes exclusively for breakdowns? Or do they sometimes get used for other things (construction? moving freight in exceptional curcumstances? (moving freight in normal circumstances?)...)?

 

Cheers

Tom

 

[Fat Controller]

7 minutes ago, TangoOscarMike said:

Aye, boat duly floated!

 

In real life, are rail mounted cranes exclusively for breakdowns? Or do they sometimes get used for other things (construction? moving freight in exceptional curcumstances? (moving freight in normal circumstances?)...)?

 

Cheers

Tom

 

Thankfully, they spend  the majority of their time working on things such as bridge renewals; for minor derailments, the equipment (mainly jacks and packing)  in the tool-vans suffices.

[Pre Grouping fan]

7 hours ago, Poor Old Bruce said:

 

I wonder how accurate the Hatton's red livery would be to go with a breakdown crane, I think black would be more appropriate to match the crane. By the time stuff was being painted red, most BDTs would have gone over to bogie vehicles. I would be quite happy to be proved wrong though. I know there were two ex-Midland six-wheel coaches at Dundee shed in the early 1960s but they looked as if they hadn't gone far for some time, they were a rather shabby black by that time. In the 80s or 90s there was another ex-Midland six-wheeler in olive green still in use as a staff and tool van for an engineers crane.

I did wonder whether the livery/prototype might not be appropriate. I spotted in Hornby magazines youtube video on the crane they used an LNER bogie full brake and a 20ton brake van. Would this be more suitable rather than 4/6 wheelers? 

[Gibbo675]

1 hour ago, TangoOscarMike said:

Aye, boat duly floated!

 

In real life, are rail mounted cranes exclusively for breakdowns? Or do they sometimes get used for other things (construction? moving freight in exceptional curcumstances? (moving freight in normal circumstances?)...)?

 

Cheers

Tom

 

Hi Tom,

 

To add to what Fat Controller has already said there are different types of crane for different types of job. The two cranes made by Hornby are at the extreme ends of operational duties, the 75 ton steam crane is for major derailments or engineering works such as lifting locomotives or placing bridge girders. The much smaller 6.5/10 ton hand cranes was originally described as a mobile yard crane for lifting machinery or containers onto flat wagons and light engineering work such as lifting sleepers and the like.

 

Cranes allocated to the engineering department were in the main rated between 5 and 20 tons,  although there were larger ones, and very often had long jibs for reaching tall structures such as signal posts. Should a large bridge girder or similar be beyond the capacity of the engineers cranes then the larger capacity breakdown cranes would be used, usually in tandem, and might lift up to 90 tons between them.

 

As for the video posted it is not unusual to lift anything by derricking in the jibs the carriage would be placed as closely as possible, along side if possible so that the jib could be as vertical as possible. The reason for this is that the crane would be more stable in this condition and the majority of the lift would be done by way of the hoist.

 

Derricking of the jib may be used to drag derailed wreckage as when doing this the load does not leave the ground and so if the crane starts to heal then the load cannot in theory pull the crane over as a suspended load might. This would be done to the point that the jib is sufficiently elevated that a lift may be attempted should the load be too heavy for the radius of lift capacity.

 

Gibbo.

[Gibbo675]

50 minutes ago, Pre Grouping fan said:

I did wonder whether the livery/prototype might not be appropriate. I spotted in Hornby magazines youtube video on the crane they used an LNER bogie full brake and a 20ton brake van. Would this be more suitable rather than 4/6 wheelers? 

Hi Bruce,

 

I would think that Hattons four and especially the six wheel coaches would be just the thing for early to mid twentieth century breakdown and engineering trains as riding vans and even as conversion to tool vans. It would take only a few windows and doors blanked off or plated over and a repaint and it should look most convincing. Severe butchery might even see an underframe as a six wheel jib runner for a crane.

 

Gibbo.

[Gibbo675]

Hi Folks,

 

I've been mainly applying transfers today and I have decorated two Booth Rodley cranes and jib runners and a Cowans Sheldon 10 ton hand crane and match truck, also attended to was a riding van. All transfers are by Cambridge Custon Transfers which are made specifically for both types of crane, BL92 for the Booth Rodley and BL36 for the Cowans Sheldon. The wasp stripes on the Yellow Booth Rodley crane are made up from the unused counter weight stripes from the Cowans Sheldon sheet, and the capacity/radius plate on the Cowans Sheldon is from the Booth Rodley sheet,. The riding van has bits from both sheets to make up a number and some data panels from some spare Rail-Tec transfers, this mixing and matching has given a little extra to the models.

Booth Rodley 15 ton with Jib Runner and Riding Van.

 

Booth Rodley 15 ton with Jib Runner.

 

Cowans and Sheldon 10 ton with Match Truck.

 

Work upon the Coles 10 ton has also been undertaken with the reworking of the jib and the building of the jib runner wagon and its jib support. Most conveniently the Runner wagon, which is an LNER 22 ton plate wagon, arrived today and was built by lunch time, with the jib being finished and cured enough to be handled I ten made and fitted up the jib support. working from photographs from Paul Bartlett's site I used .020" black plasticard and some Plastruct angle. The reason for black plasticard is so that should the paint wear off the sliding support it won't be as obvious. The reason for the sliding support is so that the jib may swing across the wagon when traversing curves.

 

Coles 10 ton and Jib Runner.

 

Gibbo.

[Poor Old Bruce]

13 hours ago, Pre Grouping fan said:

I did wonder whether the livery/prototype might not be appropriate. I spotted in Hornby magazines youtube video on the crane they used an LNER bogie full brake and a 20ton brake van. Would this be more suitable rather than 4/6 wheelers? 

 

Bogie Passenger Brake Vans would be fine along with another bogie coach for staff for a breakdown train. I don't recall seeing a Goods Brake Van in a BDT (but never say never). Converted GBVs were quite common as staff vans with PW cranes but not serving the purpose of a brake van, i.e. something else had to be provided for the train guard.

 

13 hours ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Bruce,

 

I would think that Hattons four and especially the six wheel coaches would be just the thing for early to mid twentieth century breakdown and engineering trains as riding vans and even as conversion to tool vans. It would take only a few windows and doors blanked off or plated over and a repaint and it should look most convincing. Severe butchery might even see an underframe as a six wheel jib runner for a crane.

 

Gibbo.

 

Good point Gibbo but the older coaches would work with the older cranes e.g. the D&S offering. Has anyone come up with any photos of the R&R 45T cranes with six wheel coaches and at what date?

[Giles]

here's my 7mm, 14mm gauge crane which is fully radio controlled. scratch-built with a Backwoods Miniatures Jib.

 

 

[Gibbo675]

20 minutes ago, Giles said:

here's my 7mm, 14mm gauge crane which is fully radio controlled. scratch-built with a Backwoods Miniatures Jib.

 

 

Hi Giles,

 

That was great, I especially liked how the stirring music at 3:29 added to the the action when there was a display of the dangers of working without riggers and a banks-man !

 

Gibbo.

[HonestTom]

On ‎14‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 16:25, TangoOscarMike said:

Aye, boat duly floated!

 

In real life, are rail mounted cranes exclusively for breakdowns? Or do they sometimes get used for other things (construction? moving freight in exceptional curcumstances? (moving freight in normal circumstances?)...)?

 

Cheers

Tom

 

The last photo on this page shows one engaged in construction work at Clapham Junction.

[jonhall]

2 hours ago, HonestTom said:

The last photo on this page shows one engaged in construction work at Clapham Junction.

 

I think that crane spent about 3 months in that location holding the signal box up, until it was properly shored up, so that it didn't fall onto the tracks and close both Waterloo AND Victoria.

 

Jon

[cctransuk]

On 14/12/2019 at 10:22, Poor Old Bruce said:

 

I wonder how accurate the Hatton's red livery would be to go with a breakdown crane, I think black would be more appropriate to match the crane. By the time stuff was being painted red, most BDTs would have gone over to bogie vehicles. I would be quite happy to be proved wrong though. I know there were two ex-Midland six-wheel coaches at Dundee shed in the early 1960s but they looked as if they hadn't gone far for some time, they were a rather shabby black by that time. In the 80s or 90s there was another ex-Midland six-wheeler in olive green still in use as a staff and tool van for an engineers crane.

 

Bath Green Park had a red ex-MR bogie coach as part of it's breakdown unit in the late 1950s / early 60s.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Gibbo675]

Hi Folks,

 

Here is a sketch drawing of the tool boxes and jib support for the GWR Macaw as coupled to the Booth Rodley crane. I built the superstructure from mostly .020" plasticard which is fitted about the centre line of the wagon. The wagon requires the kerb sides to be filled off down to the floor level before fitting the tool boxes to the wagon. Details for the strapping and hinges are made form micro strip and micro rod as is the jib support roller.

 

The pattern of the tool boxes is common to various GWR / Western region jib runners paired with cranes of different types. The major difference as I can make out is the length of the tool boxes could be different depending upon the wagon on which they were mounted and that the jib support roller would suit the width of the jib in question.

 

 

 

 

Gibbo.

Edited December 17, 2019 by Gibbo675
Extra Information, second paragraph

[Poor Old Bruce]

14 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

Bath Green Park had a red ex-MR bogie coach as part of it's breakdown unit in the late 1950s / early 60s.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

Something to do with a spare Ratio kit but did Green Park have a crane? There was a 75T crane at Bristol for big jobs so I suppose the BDV at Bath was for the smaller jobs with jacking and packing.

[cctransuk]

1 hour ago, Poor Old Bruce said:

 

Something to do with a spare Ratio kit but did Green Park have a crane? There was a 75T crane at Bristol for big jobs so I suppose the BDV at Bath was for the smaller jobs with jacking and packing.

 

No crane at Bath - but it does point to older packing / mess vans being painted red.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Tony Cane]

Some images currently on Ebay

 

One very definitely before  health and safety, the other has location as Folkestone.

[micklner]

The LNER used a Crane and open wagon for rides on open days.

 

One example

 

 

Edited December 19, 2019 by micklner

[Fat Controller]

18 minutes ago, Tony Cane said:

Some images currently on Ebay

 

One very definitely before  health and safety, the other has location as Folkestone.

Looks more like Dover, than Folkestone; around the marina that has now taken over the old 'enclosed' harbour

[Iain.d]

On 17/12/2019 at 02:22, cctransuk said:

 

Bath Green Park had a red ex-MR bogie coach as part of it's breakdown unit in the late 1950s / early 60s.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

I’m guessing you’re referring to the red/maroon/crimson coach that often appears in the background of photos and videos of trains moving around Bath MPD.  That coach number was DM198715M – I have a photo with S&D 7F 53808 standing adjacent to it.  A bit of research on that number suggests it was a MR BTK coach that was moved into departmental stock at some point. There are a couple of images of it on the RCTS website at Worcester in the 1970s (it certainly seems the same coach). A Google search states that the coach chassis is still around – at the Midland Railway Centre. Apologies if you knew that already.

 

Cheers,

 

Iain

[Iain.d]

On 17/12/2019 at 18:28, cctransuk said:

 

No crane at Bath - but it does point to older packing / mess vans being painted red.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

I believe a breakdown train was shedded at Bath in the early 50s, I’m not sure when it was reallocated though.  There’s a picture that includes the train (well at least the crane) in Ivo Peters Somerset and Dorset in the Fifties Vol 1 (Picture 1). The crane appears to be a Sheldon Cowan 15T type. The caption mentions that in 1950 a breakdown train was permanently stabled at Bath.

 

Cheers,

 

Iain

[Gibbo675]

Hi Folks,

 

Here is the latest from the Coles crane build.

 

The glazing has been fitted to the cab and once fixed the section of roof that required fitting was also fixed into place, soon after the roof was painted along with the door. The jib had a second coat of grey and the jib foot and the plate that engages the rest support were painted black. So far I have finish painted the parts of the crane so far constructed, the exception being the connecting rods between the jib head and the axle that holds the derricking sheaves. The jib runner wagon has been painted at the same time also.

 

I am not looking forward to making all of the wheels for this job and the job might sit and look at me for a day or two before it gets done ! Once the wheel are made all that is to do is apply transfers and a coat of matt varnish.

 

 

Gibbo.

Edited December 22, 2019 by Gibbo675
Spelling

[craneman]

On 14/12/2019 at 09:28, Gordon A said:

One of the major continental manufacturers produced a fully working rail mounted HO crane.

Unfortunately I cannot remember who.

 

Gordon A

 

Trix, Marklin, Lilliput, and Fleischmann have (I believe) produced fully-operational DCC cranes so far. Expensive, though, my Trix "Goliath" cost me around £1200 new. 

 

In terms of detail, quality and price these make the new Bachmann crane a bargain!

[Gibbo675]

Hi Folks,

 

After following Darius' suggestion of using 2mm Slater's letters for the raised numbers on AC electric locomotives I lost the plot and bought 3mm ones by mistake.

 

Not to worry though I have found a use for four of them in using them for the raised lettering on the rear of my Coles 10 ton crane. The work would have been better done before I had painted it and applied the transfers but I didn't have them at the time and so I thought the job worth the risk. The large letter "C" was cut from .020" plasticard and was easy enough with a bit of filing. I may well reduce the relief of the letters with a file as they do stand out quite a lot further than they ought to before they are painted. The position of the lettering should be slightly lower but I don't have any more wasp stripes so Rule 1 applies in this case.

 

 

Gibbo.

[leopardml2341]

Hello Gibbo,

 

Any chance you could post more details and pics on the changes you made to the Booth Rodley crane's running gear please?

Edited January 17, 2020 by leopardml2341
Edited to add 'please' :)