Older Hornby Models, Were They So Bad?

[robmcg]

Dear All,

 

I was opening a parcel which contained a 1950s Hornby Dublo set and in it I found a 1999 Hornby catalogue, probably thrown in a gift by the  seller who was cleaning out 'old stuff'.

 

I nearly threw it out, having all catalogues since 2011 it was bit out of my usual interest, but out of curiosity I looked at the models displayed inside, mostly I looked at the larger steam engines.

 

Described in glowing terms as super-detailed I was actually quite impressed by the tender-drive A3, and one or two others, but mostly it reminded me that the Ringfield motors used in many models quite probably still run after 20 years. The Hornby Dublo models I have bought run well after 70 years, generally after minor servicing.

 

I have a feeling that some of the models from the catalogue can now be bought quite cheaply.

 

Do readers have any opinions or favourites in this regard?  I own a very few of the older type and am quite pleased with them, they owe me almost nothing and are likely to last well, and are relatively immune to handling damage. I even like my 1970-something LMS 'Princess Royal' 6200 complete with the 1933-style tender (well a representation of it) and that is unlikely to be done in the 2020 range.

 

Just idle thoughts really.

 

Here are two such mentioned above.

 

 

I bought this above on Ebay for about £80 boxed runs well.

 

 

A3 from Hattons ad and £70 currently available. (no connection). No ski-jump in running plate.

 

Any particular favourites among the older models, anyone?

 

Cheers

Edited December 14, 2019 by robmcg

[GWR-fan]

Four that I like are the LNER A4 "Osprey",  BR blue A3 "Prince Palatine", BR green latest crest A3 "Flying Scotsman" with German smoke deflectors and BR blue King class "King George?".  All four now sport the latest release DCC fitted five-pole loco drive chassis.  The ringfield drives just seemed too unreliable.  I found myself constantly stripping them to clean the armature.

[bike2steam]

Hornby-Dublo, or call it Wrenn if yer want, ideal paperweights. Old former (Triang-) Hornby, tender drive, yuk, need I say more?? There are a few good things to say for 'progress'.

[atom3624]

I think 'at the time' they were 'fit for purpose', could be 'played with more' but more aimed at younger generations not yet able to respect the finer points of 'don't hold here', 'don't touch there' that's required with the super detail of today.

 

They were obviously more able to withstand knocks, bumps, shocks of general playing or parents cleaning up, knocking them off the tracks ...

 

The market requirements, standards, call it expectations are vastly different now, with the rivet counters winning ... 

 

Different times, different production abilities, different expectations, different requirements.... and not that much difference in price when inflation corrected!!

 

Al.

Edited December 14, 2019 by atom3624

[Nearholmer]

It all depends upon the criteria that you personally measure by: many would judge this ‘bad’, in that it is freelance, and anything but fine-scale; others, me included, judge it ‘marvellous’, because at c90 years old and with nothing but light maintenance throughout, it still romps round the track, and never fails to raise a grin on all who see it in action.

 

I have similarly positive emotions towards most Dublo stuff, and even ‘real Triang’, which is honestly what it is. The ones I’m not keen on are the 1970s and 1980s things that seem to fall between two stools - no longer proper toys, but not yet superb models.

[Butler Henderson]

The 1980s Princess was an example of Hornby at its worse, cobbling a model together from as many existing parts as possible.

[Steamport Southport]

I remember the shelves full of Wrenn in Beatties priced well over £50 each. You could buy brand new Mainline and Airfix locomotives for about £10 at the time...

 

 

 

Jason

Edited December 14, 2019 by Steamport Southport

[The Johnster]

The Triang Hornby era hardly covered itself in glory.  Visibly smaller centre drivers, generic mk1s liveried for the big 4, poor finishes, poor performances, Collett bowenders with BR B1 bogies marketed as Maunsells, and Thompsons, also with B1s, in a funny colour, Staniers with painted window ventilators and horrible silver roofs.  No wonder Mainline, Airfix, and even Lima ran rings around them.

 

Triang, and Hornby Dublo, were what they were; the earlier models little more than crude toys, and later stuff not too bad for it's day, like the Triang Brush Type 2 or Hornby 8F, but it's day was the early 60s, and by the late 70s boiler skirts, stamped tin valve gear, and no detail below the footplate were not acceptable.  

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I too have an A3 body of 1990s origin set aside for a P1, 'one day'. The surprising tooling in their range of steam locos was that of the GER pattern tender for the B12. This was very good for overall dimensions and the finesse of the flared out copings. With relatively little work a good scale model of a tender suitable for the later Stratford D's and J's could be produced from this starting point.

[Steamport Southport]

15 minutes ago, AlexHolt said:

The coaches were probably the worst from the older Hornby Range. Most of them had wagon wheels or big four liveries on Mk1 coaches. The Mk3 coaches were particularly bad, they made them the wrong length so they could use the standard coach box and wouldn't have to design a new box for it.

 

The locos are pretty good as cheap donors for using to build other locos that haven't been produced RTR. I've got a HST I've chopped up to make a Prototype HST and an LNER P1 made from bits of a tender drive A3.

 

They were made short for train sets. They didn't think they would go around Radius Two curves. Disproved by Lima and Jouef which easily managed it.

 

 

 

Jason

[Titan]

15 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

They were made short for train sets. They didn't think they would go around Radius Two curves. Disproved by Lima and Jouef which easily managed it.

 

 

 

Jason

 

Thought at the time everything was supposed to go round R1 curves, including Evening Star!

[Steamport Southport]

1 minute ago, Titan said:

 

Thought at the time everything was supposed to go round R1 curves, including Evening Star!

 

Or Radius One then.

 

No idea as I've never had any Hornby track apart from in a train set I got in 1978....

 

 

 

Jason

[Titan]

It is not just about going round the curves anyway, would a Lima Mk3 on R2 pass a Lima mk3 on R1 without hitting it?  Shorty Hornby's will...

[Andy Reichert]

I have my diecast Co-Bo from Hornby 2 rail days, that I think I acquired used in my teens. But my original Late 50's Triang Princess with the solid driving wheels is long gone, The original motor wore through the bearings and the armature scraped the frame as it warmed up. Sudden speed drop and screeching noise.  I didn't know then what the root cause was, so it was not within the realm of a then 12 year old to fix.

 

Andy

[Colin]

The Triang Hornby Mk1s dating from the early ‘60s (I remember them as the first scale length BR stock) might have been pretty crude and the 1970s liveries were awful (their take on blood & custard  was particularly garish IIRC) but they did provide a cheap source of parts for cut-and-shut conversions; I used to have several brake compos, open and corridor firsts and seconds plus a small fleet of correct length BGs all cobbled out of their basic BSKs & CKs. Their big advantage was that they were so easy to disassemble. A more authentic paint job, adding details from the ABS range, lowering them on their bogies and fitting home made flush glazing resulted in some pretty fair representations of everyday rolling stock which certainly passed muster when running at exhibitions.

[SweenyTod1]

34 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

I too have an A3 body of 1990s origin set aside for a P1, 'one day'. The surprising tooling in their range of steam locos was that of the GER pattern tender for the B12. This was very good for overall dimensions and the finesse of the flared out copings. With relatively little work a good scale model of a tender suitable for the later Stratford D's and J's could be produced from this starting point.

I have to disagree about the B12 tender. The frames were too deep resulting in the buffer height was wrong at 16mm instead of the correct 14mm. To achieve the overall height the body sides were reduced by 2mm. I hacked one about some years ago, by cutting and shutting and got a reasonable result, but nowhwere near the current model standard. To be fair though, the Triang/early Hornby versions were easily recognisable as GER and the flaired tops not bad. An A1 body awaits its conversion with a Crownline kit in my "to do sometime" box. One of these days.................!

 

Tod

[robmcg]

6 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

It all depends upon the criteria that you personally measure by: many would judge this ‘bad’, in that it is freelance, and anything but fine-scale; others, me included, judge it ‘marvellous’, because at c90 years old and with nothing but light maintenance throughout, it still romps round the track, and never fails to raise a grin on all who see it in action.

 

I have similarly positive emotions towards most Dublo stuff, and even ‘real Triang’, which is honestly what it is. The ones I’m not keen on are the 1970s and 1980s things that seem to fall between two stools - no longer proper toys, but not yet superb models.

 

Ah, the joy of metal-on-metal. 

 

Point taken about 70s and 80s neither here nor there with regard to detail. The rot set in when plastic parts were introduced about 1958.  Example; the Hornby Dublo Bulleid rebuilt Light Pacific 'Dorchester'?  which has the Hornby Dublo sense of real weight and presence but oh, plastic front wheels!

 

Mind you, I didn't mind back then, around 1962 being 11 years old, I wanted Kitmaster, ... and a 35mm camera, and..... to my everlasting bemusement, a basic Marklin set.. which looking back, was all-metal even in 1964 .

 

The highest point in my modelling career came when I successfully put a Triang B12 chassis under a Duchess of Montrose and cobbled together valve gear from Kitmaster bits.  It was all downhill after that. 

 

It does depend somewhat on age, methinks. But the metal thing represents a major element in enjoyment. 

 

 

[Robin Brasher]

I ran my 30 year old R866 Fighter Pilot last Thursday for half an hour on the Wimborne Railway Society test track with three new Hornby 'Golden Arrow' coaches plus a Pullman brake and a luggage van. It had a locomotive mounted X04 motor and the contacts did not need cleaning. I oiled it lightly and put it on my H & M rolling road for about ten minutes before taking it to the club meeting. It was a bit sluggish for the first five minutes but then it loosened up and ran very well. It seemed quieter than the original 'Winston Churchill' and was worth £34 I had paid for it new, reduced from £39.

[andyman7]

9 hours ago, Butler Henderson said:

The 1980s Princess was an example of Hornby at its worse, cobbling a model together from as many existing parts as possible.

This is a subjective opinion and I think missing the context. In 1984 the only RTR 00 Princess was the long deleted original Triang one, which was so underscale as to resemble a Black 5. So for 1984, the advent of a model that was of pretty much general scale proportions was a step up, plus of course it was around Railroad price. The rivet counters would recourse to kits or expensive professional builds but for the ordinary punter it was a model of a Princess at a price.

Guess what? As the market has moved, so have Hornby, culminating shortly in a new Princess that for the money is likely to put most 1980s finescale kitbuilds to shame. But the 1984 Princess was a product of its time, and should be treated as such.

[robmcg]

14 minutes ago, andyman7 said:

This is a subjective opinion and I think missing the context. In 1984 the only RTR 00 Princess was the long deleted original Triang one, which was so underscale as to resemble a Black 5. So for 1984, the advent of a model that was of pretty much general scale proportions was a step up, plus of course it was around Railroad price. The rivet counters would recourse to kits or expensive professional builds but for the ordinary punter it was a model of a Princess at a price.

Guess what? As the market has moved, so have Hornby, culminating shortly in a new Princess that for the money is likely to put most 1980s finescale kitbuilds to shame. But the 1984 Princess was a product of its time, and should be treated as such.

 

I echo that sentiment. Here is another pic of my 1980s Princess...   and the same model with my PSP6 editing...

 

 

Shades of O S Nock's memorable Scotland-Euston run in 1934 with almost no coal left at Euston and driver Laurie Earl 'looking like the Ace of Spades but all smiles' ... an on time arrival.

 

 

All about imagination, I guess.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

4 hours ago, robmcg said:

... the metal thing represents a major element in enjoyment. 

Have you sampled the Hornby B12/3? That has a near H-D quantity of metal in the loco body; the cab is moulded plastic. I hope we might see more of this from Hornby. The detail on the wholly diecast boiler is as good as that achieved by injection moulding, none of the old H-D or Wrenn 'blobbiness'.

[russ p]

3 minutes ago, robmcg said:

 

I echo that sentiment. Here is another pic of my 1980s Princess...   and the same model with my PSP6 editing...

 

 

Shades of O S Nock's memorable Scotland-Euston run in 1934 with almost no coal left at Euston and driver Laurie Earl 'looking like the Ace of Spades but all smiles' ... an on time arrival.

 

 

All about imagination, I guess.

 

Is it me or is the tender a different shade of red? Is that the same tender they used on the compound 

[robmcg]

1 minute ago, russ p said:

 

Is it me or is the tender a different shade of red? Is that the same tender they used on the compound 

 

I think it's just the light. The main lighting is a desk  reading lamp  and the tender is closer. Same colour throughout in normal light.

 

I think the Compound tender is different,

[russ p]

7 minutes ago, robmcg said:

 

I think it's just the light. The main lighting is a desk  reading lamp  and the tender is closer. Same colour throughout in normal light.

 

I think the Compound tender is different,

 

So they made a one off tender just for this? 

[robmcg]

16 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Have you sampled the Hornby B12/3? That has a near H-D quantity of metal in the loco body; the cab is moulded plastic. I hope we might see more of this from Hornby. The detail on the wholly diecast boiler is as good as that achieved by injection moulding, none of the old H-D or Wrenn 'blobbiness'.

 

I would never have guessed... 

 

 

cheers