Driver killed on Duty

[Simon Lee]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-birmingham-50801443

 

A tragic reminder of the dangers of the big railway.

 

No one deserves not to come home at the end of their shift.

 

Condolences to all, especially family and colleagues.

[russ p]

That's awful thankfully a reasonably rare occurrence nowadays 

As said above condolences to his friends and family wont be a happy festive season for them

[russ p]

Apparently poor chap was caught between two units,  don't know how or why but very sad 

[keefer]

RAIB investigation announced:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/fatal-accident-at-tyseley-depot

 

"At about 20:00 hrs on 14 December 2019, a train driver, who had just got off a train they had brought into the depot, was fatally injured while passing between two trains that were being coupled together on an adjacent line."

[The Stationmaster]

I wonder if the investigation will raise some long overdue questions about  GE/RT8000/G1 which module includes '... personal safety for non-track workers'. and strikes me as very peculiarly organised by putting personal safety last behind various other things dealing primarily with railway safety rather then personal safety.  In other words the personal safety gets lost (apart from the fact that it no longer includes various things such as specifically covering the situaions likely to be found in yards and sidings).  And oddly that section doesn't even come first in the Rule Book Train Driver Manual but follows the AC and DC electrified lines modules).

 

Seems some way from the principle adopted in the BR 1970s Rule Book where personal safety came near the front of the book and in fact in all the Rule Books I write Personal Safety always comes before everything else (and it covers a lot more than GE/RT800/G1 in respect of the procedures to be followed when crossing sidings in yards and depots - which are one of the most dangerous areas of the lot.

 

https://catalogues.rssb.co.uk/rgs/rulebooks/GERM8000-traindriver Iss 7.pdf

[jamie92208]

The back page of every Union Pacific employee timetable are the words 'your safety is your personal responsibility ' in large letters so that it fills the page.  UP has a very good safety record.

 

Jamie

Edited December 24, 2019 by jamie92208

[TheSignalEngineer]

Or to use my Grandad's rule. "I've got two eyes, one for my safety and one for the job". He survived WW1, the Birmingham Blitz and almost 49 years working on-track.

Edited December 24, 2019 by TheSignalEngineer

[Pandora]

The PTS course includes too many bits of nonsense,  such as "do not use metal tools near an axle counter"  operational,  ( the metal tool will trip the detector )  but not exactly "Persoanl Safety" .  Also you do not need a PTS certificate if you are a Driver, The Competence in Drivers Rule Book is deemed to be equivalent to a PTS

[dmustu]

9 hours ago, Pandora said:

Also you do not need a PTS certificate if you are a Driver, The Competence in Drivers Rule Book is deemed to be equivalent to a PTS

 

That is not true, PTS is a requirement for any safety critical staff whose duties may require them to go onto the track, including Drivers. Certainly in my company, PTS is a part of the SMS in it's own right, it is not blended in with any other part of a driver's CMS.

[russ p]

We dont have a PTS card like trackworkers for example.  We examine drivers PTS on the biannual rules exam. 

Our ID  card indicates the competence in PTS

[Siberian Snooper]

I would have thought that guards would have pts as they are required to go trackside to protect their train in an emergency,  or is that not applicable these days?

 

 

[russ p]

42 minutes ago, Siberian Snooper said:

I would have thought that guards would have pts as they are required to go trackside to protect their train in an emergency,  or is that not applicable these days?

 

 

 

Same as drivers

[101]

We didn't have a PTS card as such on DB, we had a Safety Critical work personal identification card which was issued when we had rules but it had a five year life - and in fact I still have one dated December 2021 even though I took early retirement over two years ago ! 

[jim.snowdon]

On 20 December 2019 at 18:15, keefer said:

RAIB investigation announced:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/fatal-accident-at-tyseley-depot

 

"At about 20:00 hrs on 14 December 2019, a train driver, who had just got off a train they had brought into the depot, was fatally injured while passing between two trains that were being coupled together on an adjacent line."

Rule Book or not, not passing between vehicles, or round the end of vehicles without plenty clearance is one of the basic rules of being on or about the railway, especially in depots and sidings. At the same time, complacency amongst staff is one of the biggest hazards, however many rules are put in place. It's why rules should be simple and to the point, not complicated or beating about non-existent bushes. 

And yes, whilst the railway should be a safe place, short of not running trains at all it never will be and safety will always be prejudiced by staff who take short cuts and rules that get ignored because they seem pointless.

 

Jim

[The Johnster]

Official walking routes are provided (or were, and I assume still are) for staff between locations and around depots to provide an acceptable level of safety in what is a very dangerous environment.  Depots are especially dangerous as locos or units may move when you don't expect them to in a direction you don't expect them to.  Those driving them or controlling the movement with handsignals will keep the best look out possible for anyone in the way, but this cannot be done to any degree of perfections; there are always blind spots.  Walking between locos or vehicles is particularly dangerous, as if the gap closes unexpectly your room to escape lessens very quickly and it is easy to be trapped.

 

But the official routes are often around the obstacles as this is the natural way of things, and there is always the temptation to take a short cut especially if you want to get home at the end of the duty.  Familiarity, as has been pointed, breeds contempt, and a short cut that has been taken many times before without issue that goes wrong one day out of a thousand can be a killer. 

 

I'm not saying that this is what has happened here, especially as I don't know exactly what has happened here or why it has happened.  The official route has appropriate guard rails, safe surfaces to walk on, proper lighting, indicators for crossing running lines, and, perhaps more to the point if I'm being cynical, will provide you with compensation for an industrial injury sustained while you are using them, or a widow's pension if you are killed.  All these are powerful reasons to use the official route, but if you can save 5 minutes it might mean the difference of catching a train home or waiting an hour for the next one, or even having to stay at the depot for several hours overnight to wait for the first one in the morning if you can't cadge a lift with someone.

 

Traincrew have in the course of their work to navigate their way around on the ground away from the official routes, to gain access to driving cabs, examine trains, go to signal telephones etc..  Extreme care must be taken while you are doing this, sometimes in poor visibility or with poor surfaces to walk on.  

Edited December 25, 2019 by The Johnster

[bradfordbuffer]

15 hours ago, Pandora said:

The PTS course includes too many bits of nonsense,  such as "do not use metal tools near an axle counter"  operational,  ( the metal tool will trip the detector )  but not exactly "Persoanl Safety" .  Also you do not need a PTS certificate if you are a Driver, The Competence in Drivers Rule Book is deemed to be equivalent to a PTS

 

 

Pandora your out of your box!

 

I've had a PTS card(use to be mustard yellow if I remember correctly) I've been PTS trained for 34 years, 30 on foot plate....the first thing that happens if medically or operationally restricted is your pts card....or now company issued train driving licence is removed from you! To stop you going lineside.... the company I currently work for as part of component assessment has a list of specific pts questions on rules test/exam.

 

When I heard that a brother had been killed in this way my heart sank...I'm sure as many others did...not only to the deceased and his family but to the other staff involved...the ripple of grief spreads wide and far...

G

 

 

[bradfordbuffer]

1 minute ago, bradfordbuffer said:

 

 

Pandora your out of your box!

 

I've had a PTS card(use to be mustard yellow if I remember correctly) I've been PTS trained for 34 years, 30 on foot plate....the first thing that happens if medically or operationally restricted is your pts card....or now company issued train driving licence is removed from you! To stop you going lineside.... the company I currently work for as part of component assessment has a list of specific pts questions on rules test/exam.

 

When I heard that a brother had been killed in this way my heart sank...I'm sure as many others did...not only to the deceased and his family but to the other staff involved...the ripple of grief spreads wide and far...

G

 

 

Dont forget the rule book is not written in ink......but blood..

[Oldddudders]

 This tragic event sadly reflects human frailties. I bet the victim had driven conscientiously for years, never missed a red light, as it were. Only to die, somehow, in the depot. 

 

In my day all traincrew walking routes were agreed between the local manager and the LDC, be it representing drivers or guards. And there was typically - but not for drivers - a slow bloke with a dodgy leg who would walk the route, being timed. The timed walk would then be built into every turn where staff walked anywhere on duty. It would also be safe, of course, to the extent that was possible. But the route people usually took would be the shortest. Back to human nature. 

[big jim]

I’d just like to add that the Deceased driver was a very well respected work colleague of a couple of forum members so please bear this in mind while posting that they have lost a good friend in a tragic accident 

 

[Pandora]

Out of my box? I have a PTS, ex S&T,  so know a bit about "On or near the Line" and I am a Driver who works in the risky world of line possessions as well as mainline.  PTS course is a doddle 100% pass rate!

[The Johnster]

6 hours ago, bradfordbuffer said:

Dont forget the rule book is not written in ink......but blood..

The guard's inspector who passed me out on Rules and Regs in 1970 put it similarly; 'remember, all these rules were found at the bottom of a bucket of blood'.  I never forgot...  

 

6 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

 This tragic event sadly reflects human frailties. I bet the victim had driven conscientiously for years, never missed a red light, as it were. Only to die, somehow, in the depot. 

 

In my day all traincrew walking routes were agreed between the local manager and the LDC, be it representing drivers or guards. And there was typically - but not for drivers - a slow bloke with a dodgy leg who would walk the route, being timed. The timed walk would then be built into every turn where staff walked anywhere on duty. It would also be safe, of course, to the extent that was possible. But the route people usually took would be the shortest. Back to human nature. 

As an example; Canton TMD to Cardiff Central station 25 minutes official walking time on the official walking route.  This was over the de Croche Place footbridge famous to spotters, de Croche Place, Ninian Park Road, Tudor Street, Wood Street, Central Square station approach.  25 minutes was reckoned to be the time it took from the back end of the dmu maintenance shed to platform 9, the furthest possible distance, at a slow walking pace allowing for waiting for traffic crossing Clare Road.  

 

There was no problem in doing it in less than 20 mins, but people still walked across the 4 running lines of the Radyr Quarry and Barry routes and up the cess, on the ends of the sleepers of the down Barry crossing Clare Road bridge.  This took about 10 minutes.

 

It takes only a second of distraction for a tragedy to occur, and our experience of those that could be laid at the door of inattention or improper position of employees were used as excuses by the management to avoid payouts.  When a Treherbert guard was killed sitting in the secondman's seat of a 116 dmu by a paving stone thrown at the train from Woodville Road bridge, just north of Cathays station, the railway claimed that his death was due to his own negligence and could not be considered as a death on duty in the normal way; the NUR was for once suitably pro-active without the leadership of ASLEF and Valleys guards, myself included, came out on strike in order to persuade management otherwise, successfully I'm glad to report.

 

A death of this sort at any time is horrible beyond imagining for the victims family and colleagues, but at Christmas, when there will be so much to remind them every year, it is particularly tragic.  My sympathies, for what they are worth, are with this man's family if he had one, and his workmates, irrespective of the actual circumstances of the incident.

[bradfordbuffer]

3 hours ago, Pandora said:

Out of my box? I have a PTS, ex S&T,  so know a bit about "On or near the Line" and I am a Driver who works in the risky world of line possessions as well as mainline.  PTS course is a doddle 100% pass rate!

Pandora! .....quip from me was only due to your user name ..please dont take offense....

and next time you do your pts test dont think it's a doddle! ....complacency breads contempt...just a observation..

 

 

Stay safe fellow rail worker, let's ALL do our bit to help keep Britain moving and get home safe for a cup of tea in one piece. 

[keefer]

RAIB report released:

https://www.gov.uk/raib-reports/report-09-2020-fatal-accident-at-tyseley-depot

[roythebus]

Yes, I read the report yesterday morning. It makes for sad reading. the 2 drivers involved were very experienced men. The oor chap who lost his life was taking a short cut between units during heavy rain, there was only a bout a foot between the units and one moved. 

 

The report exposes the disjointed rule books now employed by the various TOCs, NR and its contractors. In my view there should be ONE rule book for all like there used to be along with the sectional appendices with local instructions.

 

There was an assumption at Tyesley that there was a noise abatement order in place preventing train horns to be sounded before making a movement. Rule 1-never assume anything!