Selling Model Railway Items

[spamcan61]

5 minutes ago, Pint of Adnams said:

Lucky you! 'er indoors had a delivery from Disney 'go missing' only late last month - intended for granddaughter's 6th birthday. Fortunately Disney issued a refund but of course no birthday present.

Same here, Hermes have lost a parcel for me and delivered another one from the same seller but trashed it in the process. I certainly won't be using them.

[hayfield]

7 minutes ago, Pint of Adnams said:

Lucky you! 'er indoors had a delivery from Disney 'go missing' only late last month - intended for granddaughter's 6th birthday. Fortunately Disney issued a refund but of course no birthday present.

 

That was my main gripe a few years ago, when they started they just employed anyone they could get. The original chap arrived with family and dog in toe in a beat up old car as and when they could be bothered

 

Now we have had a series of people who seem to be far more professional, but I accept its as good as its weakest link. Other couriers can be as bad including good old Royal Mail, but RM do seem on the whole seem to offer a reliable good value service 

[37114]

1 hour ago, hayfield said:

 

That was my main gripe a few years ago, when they started they just employed anyone they could get. The original chap arrived with family and dog in toe in a beat up old car as and when they could be bothered

 

Now we have had a series of people who seem to be far more professional, but I accept its as good as its weakest link. Other couriers can be as bad including good old Royal Mail, but RM do seem on the whole seem to offer a reliable good value service 

Our local Hermes guy is a good guy but his motor is the most battered dirtiest 52plate Vauxhall Zafira I have seen (bumper is held on with parcel tape) whilst his appearance matches. Hardly surprising when there is much competition in the parcel delivery are and we all want it delivered for next to nothing...

[hayfield]

2 minutes ago, 37114 said:

Our local Hermes guy is a good guy but his motor is the most battered dirtiest 52plate Vauxhall Zafira I have seen (bumper is held on with parcel tape) whilst his appearance matches. Hardly surprising when there is much competition in the parcel delivery are and we all want it delivered for next to nothing...

 

 

Sounds like our old delivery person 5 years ago. The latest deliveries have been by 2 chaps with new or newish  white vans and one other person who had a year old people carrier, on his second visit he had an assistant.

 

I do understand that the delivery chaps get paid small amounts for each parcel and rely on the numbers of parcels delivered and their close proximity. I think its Hermes who offer two contracts, one being self employed the other being employed, it seems if you have a good round money can be made, but to earn money you have to work for it !!

[jonny777]

34 minutes ago, 37114 said:

Our local Hermes guy is a good guy but his motor is the most battered dirtiest 52plate Vauxhall Zafira I have seen (bumper is held on with parcel tape) 

 

If the delivery companies insist that the drivers provide their own vehicle, insurance, and fuel - would you expect them to drive around in a new Mercedes GLC?

 

 

[hayfield]

22 minutes ago, jonny777 said:

 

If the delivery companies insist that the drivers provide their own vehicle, insurance, and fuel - would you expect them to drive around in a new Mercedes GLC?

 

 

 

Anyone taking out a franchise must both realise the responsibilities that go with it and make the appropriate investment in it, also being self employed carries risk as well as reward.

 

Then again some companies require their contractors to act more like employees than contractors, so as we have seen there is a big blurr between whether the job is one which should be employed or self employed

[jonny777]

It sounds pretty gruesome to me - 

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/dec/08/christmas-parcel-delivery-drivers-driven-to-the-edge

[hayfield]

Sadly now I take the Guardian with a pinch of salt and put it in the ranks of the Mirror and Sun. Clearly the union has an axe to grind and both parties seem to have no interest in showing good & bad practice  

 

There are very strict rules about what delivery drivers can and cannot do in regards to their working times and breaks. These new telemetry devices are now very clever in what they are recording. It is both the employee and employers legal duty to observe and obey these laws, both should be monitoring that legal requirements are adhered to. Taking action especially where the rules are regularly being flouted 

 

The benefit of these devices is that they can show both where good practice occurs and where non compliance is common place, authorities can and should take action on bad practice. I do agree that in many cases employment laws are being bent and there are many having self employed contracts, but are controlled as if they are employed. This is wrong

[Western Dave]

4 minutes ago, hayfield said:

Sadly now I take the Guardian with a pinch of salt and put it in the ranks of the Mirror and Sun. Clearly the union has an axe to grind and both parties seem to have no interest in showing good & bad practice  

 

Totally Agree

 

4 minutes ago, hayfield said:

There are very strict rules about what delivery drivers can and cannot do in regards to their working times and breaks. These new telemetry devices are now very clever in what they are recording. It is both the employee and employers legal duty to observe and obey these laws, both should be monitoring that legal requirements are adhered to. Taking action especially where the rules are regularly being flouted 

 

The telemetry reports are NOT used for drivers hours, they are in effect only used to monitor the drivers delivery rate and as proof (via the inbuilt GPS) that the driver actually stopped at the location when a customer claims they did not. With regards to the "strict rules" you refer to these are only on 7.5 ton + vehicles fitted with tacho's.  It should also be considered that if the driver is "self employed" then the duty of care and responsablity lies with them. If they driver is employed and a 7.5 tone + driver under the last set of EU laws for drivers hours etc... that were adopted all these drivers now by law have to have a CPC (certificate of professional competence) which was formally held by the employing companies transport manager. No surprise to hear that most companies no longer have transport managers as nearly everything covered under the CPC is now the responsability of the driver!

4 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

The benefit of these devices is that they can show both where good practice occurs and where non compliance is common place, authorities can and should take action on bad practice. I do agree that in many cases employment laws are being bent and there are many having self employed contracts, but are controlled as if they are employed. This is wrong

Don't disagree but the lines are VERY blurred on employed/self employed nowadays.

 

I speak not as someone in the transport trade but as a very large user of road transport in terms of small parcels/packets and pallet freight and  either use or have used most of the companies in that trade. The bottom line is the customer is in the driving seat always demanding quicker than instant delivery and not wanting to pay anything for it. this in turn drives the price through the floor and reinforces all the bad practices and corner cutting we see/hear about which is driven by us :-) 

[37114]

Most of these drivers are in less than 7.5t vehicles so the EU driving regs don't apply worryingly..

2 hours ago, jonny777 said:

 

If the delivery companies insist that the drivers provide their own vehicle, insurance, and fuel - would you expect them to drive around in a new Mercedes GLC?

 

 

No but it is an indication that they are not earning a sustainable income to be reliant on end of life equipment...

[jonny777]

1 hour ago, hayfield said:

Sadly now I take the Guardian with a pinch of salt and put it in the ranks of the Mirror and Sun. Clearly the union has an axe to grind and both parties seem to have no interest in showing good & bad practice  

 

There are very strict rules about what delivery drivers can and cannot do in regards to their working times and breaks. These new telemetry devices are now very clever in what they are recording. It is both the employee and employers legal duty to observe and obey these laws, both should be monitoring that legal requirements are adhered to. Taking action especially where the rules are regularly being flouted 

 

The benefit of these devices is that they can show both where good practice occurs and where non compliance is common place, authorities can and should take action on bad practice. I do agree that in many cases employment laws are being bent and there are many having self employed contracts, but are controlled as if they are employed. This is wrong

 

 

I agree with you, in that it seems employment rules are being disregarded in some instances; but in my day this was called piece-work and people would work silly hours just to earn extra money. However, when someone is given a very high target of 220 parcels to deliver a day, then that has taken away the advantages of the piece-work nature, while retaining all the disadvantages. 

 

I don't support the powerful union leaders of the 1960s ideal; but I just think that the pendulum has now swung too far in the other direction. 

 

(Sorry, I am slipping into politics and will therefore go no further). 

 

 

[hayfield]

33 minutes ago, Western Dave said:

 

Totally Agree

 

 

The telemetry reports are NOT used for drivers hours, they are in effect only used to monitor the drivers delivery rate and as proof (via the inbuilt GPS) that the driver actually stopped at the location when a customer claims they did not. With regards to the "strict rules" you refer to these are only on 7.5 ton + vehicles fitted with tacho's.  It should also be considered that if the driver is "self employed" then the duty of care and responsablity lies with them. If they driver is employed and a 7.5 tone + driver under the last set of EU laws for drivers hours etc... that were adopted all these drivers now by law have to have a CPC (certificate of professional competence) which was formally held by the employing companies transport manager. No surprise to hear that most companies no longer have transport managers as nearly everything covered under the CPC is now the responsability of the driver!

Don't disagree but the lines are VERY blurred on employed/self employed nowadays.

 

I speak not as someone in the transport trade but as a very large user of road transport in terms of small parcels/packets and pallet freight and  either use or have used most of the companies in that trade. The bottom line is the customer is in the driving seat always demanding quicker than instant delivery and not wanting to pay anything for it. this in turn drives the price through the floor and reinforces all the bad practices and corner cutting we see/hear about which is driven by us :-) 

 

I work for a company (I am not a company van driver) that has its own delivery vans and employed drivers, Our telemetry devices are not the latest, but they do keep both a record of driving and how well the van has been driven (acceleration and braking) for both safety and fuel efficiency. This information is used and fed back to drivers. Our drivers also have to keep an accurate log of driving and rest periods. I am not on this side of the business so not quite up to speed on the exact requirements, but we have monitored driving statistics for some time and used them for personal development reviews

 

https://www.vansdirect.co.uk/van-driving-hours-law

 

There are very strict EU laws on driving which all professional drivers must adhere to which includes what we refer to as white van man. Now whether they adhere to them is up to them but if caught they can be prosecuted, so can their employers. I guess the grey area is about these so called self employed groups, but like Uber has found it is very hard to distance yourselves on those you give work to and monitor, certainly is you as a company know the law is being broken and just ignore it you are open to action

 

Personally I think this whole area of controlled self employment should be looked at, too many large companies are side stepping their responsibilities   

[hayfield]

4 minutes ago, jonny777 said:

 

 

I agree with you, in that it seems employment rules are being disregarded in some instances; but in my day this was called piece-work and people would work silly hours just to earn extra money. However, when someone is given a very high target of 220 parcels to deliver a day, then that has taken away the advantages of the piece-work nature, while retaining all the disadvantages. 

 

I don't support the powerful union leaders of the 1960s ideal; but I just think that the pendulum has now swung too far in the other direction. 

 

(Sorry, I am slipping into politics and will therefore go no further). 

 

 

 

 

Its not the number of parcels per round that's the issue, if everybody has 5 then its 44 drops, over 8 hours = 5,5 an hour. Its far more complicated. Day or the week, time of day how close together they are, weather conditions etc all come into play. I doubt if that driver was expected to have 220 drops, that is one drop every 2 mins !! there is far more to the story than what is being told

 

Nothing wrong with piece work providing the rates are fair, nothing wrong with most unions. I think this new GIG economy seriously needs controlling, whilst benefiting many it also adversely affects many at the same time. There needs to be equal benefit to both parties   

[Stevelewis]

On 17/12/2019 at 19:20, hayfield said:

FOR INFO  Ebay  currently   have  a   £1  MAX selling  fee   for  up  to  100 items  valid  until   23rd PM

 It  should be  noted  though  that  the  offer  is  by invitation  only  from  ebay,  Usually  eBay  send  and  email  to   members. who qualify

 

[hayfield]

49 minutes ago, Stevelewis said:

 

 

 

Yes signed up, but don't have anything to sell

[Stevelewis]

1 hour ago, hayfield said:

 

 

Yes signed up, but don't have anything to sell

I am  the  same  nothing  left  to  sell!  Although  I  do  have  4  items  currently  listed  from  previous  £1 listing  fee period!  Stevesoller

[GWR-fan]

A friend of mine regularly uses Facebook marketplace sites for model railways to both buy and mainly sell items,  after despairing at the increasing eBay fees.  Be very careful though as there are many pitfalls as punters see the sites as a goldmine.  Like Gumtree a face to face sale is preferred to avoid being ripped off.  This does though restrict your market to those willing to travel.

 

For sometime I was using a zero dollar fee eBay regime that cost me nothing to both list and sell.  The last few months though selling fees seem to be the only way that eBay now operates.  The last two Christmas sales that I had saved me hundreds of dollars in fees enabling me to offer goods at reduced prices knowing that there was no fees to pay.  This year though with no offers available,  paying selling fees is par for the course.   While it does irk to pay the roughly 15% in fees including a GST on postage costs,  this is still better than a few years ago when one had to pay listing fees.  In those days,  with my listings generally averaging around $100.00 each,  if I listed say twenty items then I had to sell one item at least just to cover the insertion fees.  If no items sold then I was out of pocket around $100.00.  Now I can list up to forty items free and pay a final fee on any sales, so incur fees only when a sale is made.  Fees are a necessary evil.  I try to keep on top of them by paying the fees as they occur rather than await a monthly lump sum payment.

[hayfield]

GWR-fan

 

eBay need fees for selling items both to pay the running costs of the site and of course make a profit, thus staying in business. It seems their income stream is now based more on advertising revenue (like Facebook) thus reducing fees. I never pay insertion fees and to be quite honest never mind paying eBay 10% fee (which is less than half the price of traditional UK auction sites). I am a private seller disposing of either items I no longer require of items which came with others items I wanted. Paying 10% to obtain a top price in my books is a good investment and I end up with more money to spend on my hobby. If my item fails to sell then I pay no money

 

It sounds to me you are/were running a business, and you may have been better having your own online platform. But that also costs

 

In December I have sold 3 items, two as it happens at £19.95 and one at £60. My total fees have been £3. All 3 items were rather specialized and I am certain I would have not got anywhere like the final selling prices via any other site let alone sell them. I did not even get charged a fee on postage !! . I am into loco kits, over the years I had amassed older style Romford gear sets (I now use gear boxes) in the past I would have just thrown these away especially as the worms have older imperial holes (I use can motors with metric shafts) sold everyone I listed, along with getting good prices for some older style MW 005's and D11 motors. All of which have no or low value to traditional retail outlets. On the other hand I have found may spares/parts that I could never buy anywhere else ( many now out of production) Its an absolute goldmine of useful and hard to get items

 

I have turned off Global shipping on every thing I sell, why make the buyer pay twice for shipping? The type of items (kits and parts) seem not to interest the scammers and usually are within reasonable rates for shipping, I charge the appropriate rate for posting. 

 

Still I guess eBay is like Marmite, you either love or hate it.

 

[GWR-fan]

As regards the global shipping programme I believe that UK sellers have no idea how much the programme charges buyers outside the UK.  A member here had items that I was interested in listed on eBay and had chosen the global shipping programme for his listings.  The quoted postage cost for two decals was GBP23.95 to Australia.  When I questioned the seller as to the postage cost he replied that he had no idea that the programme was charging so much.  He removed the global programme from his listing and invoiced me GBP1.95.   I will not use any seller that offers global shipping programme as their only means of shipping.  The programme considers all articles as commercial freight and in my experience the service is actually slower than using the much less expensive Royal Mail alternative.  It is of cause very convenient for the seller as I believe that he posts items to a local UK address and avoids customs requirements.

 

I have no issue with paying the fees as if I keep listings to less than forty per month I pay no fees unless a sale is made.  EBay in Australia has not offered a zero final value fee or $1.00 fee programme for some time,  so the normal fees apply.  The only enticement offered is a zero insertion fee programme but given that most sellers have a free forty items per mont, h the enticement is usually worthless unless you are going to exceed the maximum free insertions per month.

 

 

[hayfield]

16 hours ago, GWR-fan said:

As regards the global shipping programme I believe that UK sellers have no idea how much the programme charges buyers outside the UK.  A member here had items that I was interested in listed on eBay and had chosen the global shipping programme for his listings.  The quoted postage cost for two decals was GBP23.95 to Australia.  When I questioned the seller as to the postage cost he replied that he had no idea that the programme was charging so much.  He removed the global programme from his listing and invoiced me GBP1.95.   I will not use any seller that offers global shipping programme as their only means of shipping.  The programme considers all articles as commercial freight and in my experience the service is actually slower than using the much less expensive Royal Mail alternative.  It is of cause very convenient for the seller as I believe that he posts items to a local UK address and avoids customs requirements.

 

I have no issue with paying the fees as if I keep listings to less than forty per month I pay no fees unless a sale is made.  EBay in Australia has not offered a zero final value fee or $1.00 fee programme for some time,  so the normal fees apply.  The only enticement offered is a zero insertion fee programme but given that most sellers have a free forty items per mont, h the enticement is usually worthless unless you are going to exceed the maximum free insertions per month.

 

 

 

When GSP was introduced I had 2 overseas buyers buy items which were shipper using this system, and was appalled at the price eBay were charging. I wrongly assumed the buyers selected this form or transit, once I found out it was a default option I have now changed my personal settings, the trouble is if accidently added it cannot be overridden. GPS basically charged the buyer twice for postage (standard UK rates + GPS) 

[KeithMacdonald]

On 19/12/2019 at 10:47, hayfield said:

 

I used to avoid Hermes due to the issues you have highlighted, I still use Royal Mail in preference, but Hermes are now so much better and for heavier items much cheaper than Royal Mail

 

I wish / not round here mate.
 

Quote

 

Hermes parcel delivery depot a shocking mess in leaked photos from depot.

 

Delivery company Hermes has launched an investigation after shocking photos emerged of packages strewn in the back of one of its vans and scattered across a depot.

The pictures, taken in the week after Christmas, show parcels littered throughout one of Hermes’ 26 UK depots.

The delivery company is one of the biggest of its kind nationally. 

The scene is reminiscent of a dumping ground, with customers’ packages untidily left on the warehouse floor – some which are even labelled as fragile.

There are few items to be seen on the actual conveyor belt, but one box that is on there has a dent in the middle of it.

A worker at the depot, in Bradford, West Yorkshire, who wished to remain anonymous, claimed the issues shown in the pictures are a daily occurrence.

They added: “It’s horrific, nobody cares, I’ve seen people playing football with customers’ parcels.”

 

 

https://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/18156223.hermes-parcel-delivery-depot-shocking-mess-leaked-photos-yorkshire-depot/

 

[KeithMacdonald]

By the way, for those that still seem to think eBay fees are expensive, some anecdotal evidence. Other online auctions sites (the kind where people can still visit an auction room in person as well) typically say :

 

Quote

Commissions : 30% inc.VAT/sales tax

 

I've seen more than than quoted as well.

[hayfield]

59 minutes ago, KeithMacdonald said:

By the way, for those that still seem to think eBay fees are expensive, some anecdotal evidence. Other online auctions sites (the kind where people can still visit an auction room in person as well) typically say :

 

 

I've seen more than than quoted as well.

 

Agreed 20% + VAT fee for bth seller & buyer (48%) then far less exposure numerically, plus quite often you get a wholesale price not retail. In other words you loose big time.

 

We have a problem in the UK in that people hate success