Short switches required!

[dud spud]

Hello there,

I am making a small shunting layout and I have run into a problem. I bought an engine for it, but now realise I need specific track switches for it and I am not sure where to find them.

Does anyone know where I can find track switches in 00 scale shorter than or equal to 12cm?

Thank you!

Edited December 18, 2019 by dud spud

[jcredfer]

Can you confirm that you are looking for track Turnouts, or what we call Points, in the UK.

 

Should that be the case, the shortest that Peco do is 6.61inches, around 16.5cm.  There may be some slightly shorter, but even the Peco ones make for very sharp curves, particularly as you want to shunt on them.

 

Regards

Julian

 

[dud spud]

Hello, I am in the UK too just like to vary my vocab so to speak. Yes I can confirm, but I don't mind the sharpness of the curves. I have had an idea to cut down the Hornby points, though I don't want to start hacking up anything until I'm sure it's the only alternative.

[peach james]

DIY would probably be the only way to get 10 cm long turnouts, and they are going to be quite vicious at 10cm long (3").  I'd think that a stub switch may be the only way to get to that sort of short.  You could look at the trackwork on "Bronx Terminal" to get some idea of what is workable.  That being said, expect to limit your choices of coupler, connected vehicle, and wheelbase to manage 3" long turnouts from toe to past frog.

http://www.bronx-terminal.com/

[jcredfer]

4.5cm is quite a long distance to shorten it and if you are doing that to cut down your Hornby points, you won't gain anything in shortening the active part of the points [ie. from the points of the Blade Rail to the exit from the Frog, at the Heel].  The parts of the points at either end are just plain Running Rails and cutting them off won't alter any of the geomentry of the working parts to change the direction.  These parts are best left and any shortening done to the apporach rails.  At the Points end there is the 1" [?] from the approach rails to the indent in the Running rail, which allows for the end of the Switch Blades to sit smoothing their inner surface.  If you attempt to shorten the Switch Blades by any significant distance, you will need an indent in the Running Rails to achieve the same smooth inner side to the rails.  You are also likely to need to fill in the current indent up to where the new end of the Switch rail is now located.

 

At the Frog end, you would need to make the Frog Vee a wider angle, or you won't have altered anything on the actual turning [as the approach angles will still be the same and it doesn't matter what forms the track, the separation of the two approaching lines to the frog will be the same].  At the same time the outer running rails will need to be bent outwards, to match the greater angle on the Vee. 

 

I wouldn't envy anyone trying to do those two tricks and don't think that would save 6cm.  You might try the websites that people use, to build their own track, to see if they have anything so small.  I agree with peach james, that DIY would be easier than messing with ready made ones.  I'm really sorry that all sounds so very unhelpful. I'm assuming you have outer limits on your Shunting Boards, as you would be unlikely to be asking the question and simply extending the Baseboard by 2".

 

Regards

J

 

[Dungrange]

The shortest point that I'm aware of is the Y point in the Settrack range - https://peco-uk.com/products/y-turnout-medium-radius3.  However, if that is too big, then you are into building your own: I don't think trying to modify a ready-to-run point is viable.  Note that to make the point shorter, you will have to reduce both radii to less than second radius, so you may have problems with some stock not fitting round the curve (this is the minimum design radius for a lot of Ready-to-run stock) and you may also have problems with couplings.

 

Personally, I think you need to rethink your track plan.

 

 

[Il Grifone]

I'm assuming that the 12cm is from blade tips to the far end of the wing rails which implies 1st radius or less. I have such a beast in the industrial tracks of my layout. It's Peco and presumably 'Setrack', but I can find no reference on their website, so possibly it's now obsolete.

Edited December 19, 2019 by Il Grifone

[Dungrange]

4 minutes ago, Il Grifone said:

I'm assuming that the 12cm is from blade tips to the far end of the wing rails which implies 1st radius or less. I have such a beast in the industrial tracks of my layout. It's Peco and presumably 'Setrack', but I can find no reference on their website.

 

Would that perhaps be from the period where manufacturers designed their stock to go round first radius curves (ie back in the 1980's)?  Peco may have produced a first radius version at some point in the past, but I don't think they make that any more.  It would however explain why the current Settrack version is referred to as 'medium' radius.  Perhaps there was a 'small' radius Y point that used first radius curves and examples might still be found second hand.

[Il Grifone]

6 minutes ago, Dungrange said:

 

Would that perhaps be from the period where manufacturers designed their stock to go round first radius curves (ie back in the 1980's)?  Peco may have produced a first radius version at some point in the past, but I don't think they make that any more.  It would however explain why the current Settrack version is referred to as 'medium' radius.  Perhaps there was a 'small' radius Y point that used first radius curves and examples might still be found second hand.

 

Probably yes, some/most of my track has a good few years behind it. This one is limited to 40' freight cars.

[dud spud]

I only meant as in shortening it so that I could fit a few of them close together. 12cm refers to the straight section of the points.

18 hours ago, jcredfer said:

4.5cm is quite a long distance to shorten it and if you are doing that to cut down your Hornby points, you won't gain anything in shortening the active part of the points.  The parts of the points at either end are just plain Running Rails and cutting them off won't alter any of the geometry of the working parts to change the direction.  These parts are best left and any shortening done to the approach rails.

I only planned to shorten the approach rails anyway.

 

Edited December 19, 2019 by dud spud

[dud spud]

4 hours ago, Dungrange said:

Personally, I think you need to rethink your track plan.

this is not an option for me, as I have already bought the engine to run on this layout and cannot return it due to (minor) modifications made.

Quote

I don't think trying to modify a ready-to-run point is viable. 

I have done it before and seen it done before. It is viable, just not preferable.

The point needs to be an L point not a Y point.

[Dungrange]

38 minutes ago, dud spud said:

I only meant as in shortening it so that I could fit a few of them close together. 12cm refers to the straight section of the points.

I only planned to shorten the approach rails anyway.

 

Okay, I, and others, thought you were actually trying to reduce the distance from the tips of the switchblades to the common crossing, which would require you to alter the geometry of the common crossing (ie the frog angle) and change the radius of the closure rails.  However if all you are trying to do is effectively overlap two turnouts to create some form of asymmetric three way point to save space, then that should be achievable by modification of a ready to run point.  There is nothing to stop you having the tips of the second set of points at the end of the wing rail on your common crossing by just pruning the turnout as much as you require.  However, once you want to place the switch for the second turnout in advance of the first common crossing, I think you'd be better just to build from scratch.

 

If it has to be a point with a straight rail, then either the Hornby or Peco Set track point would be the best start point.  You're not going to get anything shorter.

[dud spud]

5 minutes ago, Dungrange said:

If it has to be a point with a straight rail, then either the Hornby or Peco Set track point would be the best start point.  You're not going to get anything shorter.

Yep, that's the plan then! Thanks for the advice.

[Andy Reichert]

 

I now make a range of tramway track that might do what you want. They have curved crossings and are 8" and 10" Radius. The ends can be custom cut or supplied cut back by request  to the minimum length shown. 

 

PM me if you want further details.

 

Andy