Running fitted and unfitted wagons together, help please!

[Possy92]

Hello all,

 

This subject has probably been done to death, but I'd like some information please:

 

I run a small shunting (inglenook) layout, where 5 out of 8 wagons at random are selected in formation to be taken away by the locomotive.

 

Anyway, the layout features old MR wagons, And NE wagons, plus others, which are unfitted and fitted repecitvley. 

 

Obviously, if this was a big long train, the fitted wagons would always be behind the loco, and the rest at the back with a brake van.

 

Obviously with an inglenook, if you automatically put the fitted stock behind the loco it sort of defeats the "game".

 

So, providing the train had a brake van, would they mix the fitted and unfitted together? For example, a slow goods where wagons are picked up and dropped off?

 

I realise it's a long winded ways of asking, but I wanted to fill you in on how/why I've come to pick your brains!

 

Thank you for your time!

[kevinlms]

16 minutes ago, Possy92 said:

Hello all,

 

This subject has probably been done to death, but I'd like some information please:

 

I run a small shunting (inglenook) layout, where 5 out of 8 wagons at random are selected in formation to be taken away by the locomotive.

 

Anyway, the layout features old MR wagons, And NE wagons, plus others, which are unfitted and fitted repecitvley. 

 

Obviously, if this was a big long train, the fitted wagons would always be behind the loco, and the rest at the back with a brake van.

 

Obviously with an inglenook, if you automatically put the fitted stock behind the loco it sort of defeats the "game".

 

So, providing the train had a brake van, would they mix the fitted and unfitted together? For example, a slow goods where wagons are picked up and dropped off?

 

I realise it's a long winded ways of asking, but I wanted to fill you in on how/why I've come to pick your brains!

 

Thank you for your time!

For shunting purposes, the fitted vehicles would have the vacuum disconnected and so work as unfitted.

 

So just forget about the differences.

[DCB]

The vacuum brakes would usually only be connected up for long distance freights, they were a damned nuisance when it came to assembling trains.

The Southern was fond of fitted freights and typically they would run fitted freights from Feltham to Exmouth Junction or even Okehampton and then continue as unfitted but in station order to Barnstaple, Padstow, Bude, Ilfracombe  etc. That led to a lot of apparently pointless shunting at intermediate yards, pretty much like the operation of Inglenooks.

Other Railways weren't so keen, the LNER was busy removing vacuum brakes from goods locos as late as the late 1940s and then ran unfitted freights at quite ridiculous speeds on the GC main line. 

Basically its pretty irrelevant whether the Inglenook stock is arranged in order of fitted wagons together or not.  No reason not to gather the fitted wagons together if that adds interest.

 

[Pandora]

10 hours ago, DavidCBroad said:

The vacuum brakes would usually only be connected up for long distance freights, they were a damned nuisance when it came to assembling trains.

The Southern was fond of fitted freights and typically they would run fitted freights from Feltham to Exmouth Junction or even Okehampton and then continue as unfitted but in station order to Barnstaple, Padstow, Bude, Ilfracombe  etc. That led to a lot of apparently pointless shunting at intermediate yards, pretty much like the operation of Inglenooks.

Other Railways weren't so keen, the LNER was busy removing vacuum brakes from goods locos as late as the late 1940s and then ran unfitted freights at quite ridiculous speeds on the GC main line. 

Basically its pretty irrelevant whether the Inglenook stock is arranged in order of fitted wagons together or not.  No reason not to gather the fitted wagons together if that adds interest.

 

At the speed of shunting manoeuvres, the Shunter walking alongside the moving wagons  would have a brake stick to lever down the brake lever to arrest the wagons,  dealing with fitted wagons,  coupling the pipes and than charging the brake reservoirs of the wagons via the brake pipe ( unless they are charged the brakes do not work)  would be very slow laborious work

Edited December 19, 2019 by Pandora

[Rivercider]

If you assume that your small yard is near to a larger yard then you can quite happily send the short train away marshalled however you wish. The shunting staff at the main yard will sort out the traffic there, and marshall any fitted traffic together if required.

 

cheers

[Wickham Green]

The other pertinent question is whether all your small shunting locos are actually vacuum fitted themselves ?

[The Johnster]

The sort of traffic found in an Inglenook type of yard is mostly 'trip freight' work, being subsidiary to the operation of a larger marshalling yard with makes the stock up into fitted or part fitted trains for main line long distance running.  The shunting loco will usually bring the stock from the marshalling yard to the Inglenook, shunt it out and pick up the outgoing traffic, and return to the marshalling yard, the 'trip'.    The vacuum brakes are isolated out of use during this entire procedure and the order in which the train is marshalled is not related to the wagons being fitted or otherwise, but might be related to the way the traffic is shunted out when it gets to the Inglenook.

 

As Inglenooks do not have run around loops, it may be of use to you to consider that, in some cases, the relevant Sectional Appendix (to the Rules and Regulations) might give authority to propel the train in one or both directions, with or without a brake van.

[Guy Rixon]

Assuming that the wagons go into a main-line train that runs semi-fitted, they will most-likely be sorted into fitted and non-fitted cuts somewhere. You could postulate that it's easier to do that "on-stage" at the yard of origin; or not, as you prefer.

 

For plausibility, consider which wagons are likely to travel in a semi-fitted train. In early periods, when brake trains are rare and precious, mineral empties and the like would not be on those trains. In that case, there might be separate trips from the yard for fitted and non-fitted stock.