Western Star Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 We are building an OTA timber truck for our pending layout which is based on the West Highland Line. The kit was obtained from PRMRP after we had spent a fair while examing a built example on the PRMRP stand at Telford. Now that we have started the kit we find that the instructions leave far too much to the imagination and that is where we are asking for help. As a start, there are no witness marks on the wagon floor... or words in the instructions... to help when soldering the solebar flange underneath the body - worst case with the solebar pressed against the "curb" rail is solebars set with back to back of 55mm; instinct based solely upon steam-ear wagonary tells me that 55mm is significantly more than the expected circa 42mm. The question here is:- * what is the distance between solebars of an OTA wagon? (or the OCA wagon which was rebuilt into the OTA). An internet search has not provided any reference to a source of drawings for this wagon - anyone any ideas? thank you, Graham Beare Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 I daresay someone will come through with info on this wagon, I have had great success when I've asked for help. Alas I don't know the wagon. However, I would have thought that the distance between solebars is more or less standard since it must accomodate a standard wheel set. I think we have all encountered kits with poor instructions. Very frustrating. Best of luck, be sure to post pics in case anyone else intends to build the kits John 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 57 minutes ago, Western Star said: An internet search has not provided any reference to a source of drawings for this wagon - anyone any ideas? thank you, Graham Beare OCA drawing in Bartlett, P., Larkin, D., Mann, T., Silsbury, R., and Ward, A. (1985) An illustrated history of BR wagons, Volume 1 published by Oxford Publishing Company, 192 pages. Paul 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Western Star Posted December 20, 2019 Author Share Posted December 20, 2019 7 hours ago, Western Star said: We are building an OTA timber truck ... An internet search has not provided any reference to a source of drawings for this wagon - anyone any ideas? 6 hours ago, hmrspaul said: OCA drawing in Bartlett, P., Larkin, D., Mann, T., Silsbury, R., and Ward, A. (1985) An illustrated history of BR wagons, Volume 1 published by Oxford Publishing Company, 192 pages. Thank you Paul, I shall look for a copy. Regards, Graham Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daifly Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 Hi Graham I have a copy of the book and can scan and send the relevant drawing/s - but not until I get home late this afternoon. Dave 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Western Star Posted December 20, 2019 Author Share Posted December 20, 2019 (edited) 22 hours ago, brossard said: Alas I don't know the wagon. And neither do I... yet. My knowledge of wagon designs expires when the RCH introduced the 1907 specification for private owner wagons - the OTA is a near-vertical climb in learning for me. Edited December 20, 2019 by Western Star Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 Well, we all start with zero knowledge of whatever we are interested in. It is by asking questions that we learn. John 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 10 hours ago, daifly said: Hi Graham I have a copy of the book and can scan and send the relevant drawing/s - but not until I get home late this afternoon. Dave So destroying the purpose of getting people to actually buy books. There'll be no new information soon. Paul OTAs from various sources https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/ota OTAs from OCA in https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/oca 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Softvark Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 Have you seen the downloadable instructions available from the PRMRP website? I have one of these to build myself and the pdf is more comprehensive than the paper instructions included with the kit. http://www.prmrp.com/uploads/1/2/0/6/12060808/brf-012_ota_instructions_new_version_2008.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daifly Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, hmrspaul said: So destroying the purpose of getting people to actually buy books. There'll be no new information soon. I have nearly 2000 railway-related books in my library. Most were bought new and at full price. I think I’ve done my bit to support new book sales. Perhaps you could let us all know just how Graham can source a new copy of a book last published in 1985? I’d like to know too as mine is a slightly tatty second-hand copy. Dave Edited December 20, 2019 by daifly 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 15 minutes ago, daifly said: I have nearly 2000 railway-related books in my library. Most were bought new and at full price. I think I’ve done my bit to support new book sales. Perhaps you could let us all know just how Graham can source a new copy of a book last published in 1985? I’d like to know too as mine is a slightly tatty second-hand copy. Dave Dave, I quite agree, helping a fellow modeller is the aim, nothing commercial. If a copy of the drawing is an influence to the person, that may then purchase such books when they see what an aid it is, will encourage book purchase. I purchased my copy in 1985, I'm still waiting for volume 2........ 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Western Star Posted December 20, 2019 Author Share Posted December 20, 2019 (edited) Guys, I am sympathetic to Paul's point of view and if there is a new copy available somewhere at other than a computer-influenced price then I shall be happy to enquire. Being the good and helpful person that he is Dave might have lent me his copy, delivered in a plain brown wrapper at a motorway services nearby, and I could then photocopy the relevant pages. For the record, we bought OTA photos from Paul's website yesterday. I agree that the on-line PRMRP instructions are an improvement on the paper version which is provided with the kit. However, the PDF does not help with my question as noted in the initial post - there is no text to describe how to locate the solebars and no photo to show the solebars in place (without other fittings obscuring the placement). For the record... study of the OTA section of the LTSV website together with the photo-sets by Paul Bartlett, Martin Loders and Andy Jupe (all linked from the OTA section of LTSV) shall enable modellers to appreciate the differences between OTA wagons dependent upon the origin of the donor wagon. Note that the kit does not provide sufficient solebar fillets nor include the corresponding half etch slots to build an OTA which was rebuilt from an OCA with a running number higher than circa 112242-112247 (there is a change in the number of fillets and arrangement of those items somewhere in that range, noting the change / break point comes from study of the photos in the referenced photo sets). regards, Graham Edited December 21, 2019 by Western Star 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MM1991 Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, Western Star said: Guys, I am sympathetic to Paul's point of view and if there is a new copy available somewhere at other than a computer-influenced price then I shall be happy to enquire. Being the good and helpful person that he is Dave might have lent me his copy, delivered in a plain brown wrapper at a motorway services nearby, and I could then photocopy the relevant pages. A quick internet search isn't throwing up any new copies, but some used examples - starting north of 30 quid! Edited December 21, 2019 by MM1991 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Western Star Posted December 21, 2019 Author Share Posted December 21, 2019 15 minutes ago, MM1991 said: A quick internet search isn't throwing up any new copies, but some used examples - starting north of 30 quid! My search yesterday produced no secondhand copy below £45 so please tell me more about your cut-price example!" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MM1991 Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 13 minutes ago, Western Star said: My search yesterday produced no secondhand copy below £45 so please tell me more about your cut-price example!" PM Sent! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 (edited) On 20/12/2019 at 20:25, daifly said: Perhaps you could let us all know just how Graham can source a new copy of a book last published in 1985? I’d like to know too as mine is a slightly tatty second-hand copy. Dave A few years ago it was difficult, but those whom purchased the stock remaindered through the book club are passing theirs on now. I've bought a copy that had never been opened but had a sun damaged spine. Even at £45 they are still cheaper than when new. And there are interlibrary loans. or club libraries. As to volume 2 pointless, no market. Paul Edited December 21, 2019 by hmrspaul 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedman Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Your in a kind of chicken and egg situation here. My mythology for building Parkins/RJH/PMRP kits and other which have blank floors without is as follows. 1. Fit my top hat bearings into axle boxes (as deep as the casting depth will allow). 2. Fit my wheel sets dry and then measure the width of the solebar inner edges. 3. Mark a Centre line up the floor and then use this to Centre your already measured solebar width. 4. Tack your solebars in place, make sure your wheels are free running. (I use a craft knife to slide/adjust the top hats in or out) 5. Lastly, make sure your solebars are not fouling your buffer holes. I have 3 or 4 built and painted OTA/SPA and a part built OBA that should all be roughly identical (some were built almost 20 years ago) that I will try and photograph over the festive and post up. hope this helps 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold markjj Posted December 24, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 24, 2019 To add more fuel to the fire a "Drawing" of the real thing probably won't help you build the kit. I have a book of BR wagon drawings in a PDF form they are not highly detailed drawings but line drawings from the Barrowmore Model Railway group. Someone published a link to the drawings a few years ago. There are lots of other line drawings that may be useful there to. Going back to the wagon drawings it states the size over jounrnals not the distance between frames so as our wheels vary from manufacturer to manufacturer you will have to set them to suit as thedman (sorry I dint know your real name) has pointed out above. Here is a link to the page with all the drawing books i hope they help someone somehow. http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/Prototype.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedman Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 All of mine appear to be circa 46mm solebar back to back. It doesn't look like this on the pictures but I had to hold the camera at an angle to prevent a shadow. Hope this helps 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Western Star Posted December 26, 2019 Author Share Posted December 26, 2019 Thank you for those photos, they are going to be most useful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedman Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 No problem Darren Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Western Star Posted December 27, 2019 Author Share Posted December 27, 2019 Darren, Please post photos of both sides of the wagon ends - when convenient for you. thank you, Graham Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
w124bob Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 I can't help with construction, but found this Flickr site useful seeing what OTA liveries ran in the mid to late '80's . Worth noting the number of OBA/OCA wagons in use for timber traffic and the rebogied ex bogie bolster D with through air pipes . https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/albums Scroll down there are 4 West higland albums. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedman Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 On 27/12/2019 at 10:27, Western Star said: Darren, Please post photos of both sides of the wagon ends - when convenient for you. thank you, Graham Graham, Apologies for the delay in replying, I never noticed your post. Hope these are what your looking for. Darren 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Western Star Posted January 5, 2020 Author Share Posted January 5, 2020 Thank you for those phoitos, they shall help us to get the end/floor join as correct as we can. regards, Graham Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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