Good books on scratchbuilding locomotives?

[Guest WM183]

Hi folks.

I've decided I want to build a locomotive in 7mm, and I think I will start with a 56xx. It's one of my favorite types, and it's a rather slab-sided design with inside cylinders and gear, and a resin boiler is available from MM1 models, so I think it's a reasonable thing to try. I've also got a Bachmann model to measure in those times where I cannot find exact measurements of body related things. I'm quite confident of my ability to build the body and all from brass and styrene. However, I've never built an entire locomotive from scratch before! I am unsure how to go about laying out and cutting the frames, suspension, and so on, so I'd like to learn what I am getting into, and what tools i may need, before I get ahead of myself.

So, any good books on this?

Amanda (The multiscaler, apparently)

Edited December 23, 2019 by Guest

[Miss Prism]

Both for 4mm, but could apply equally to 7mm:

 

- Model Locomotive Construction in 4mm Scale, Guy Williams, Ian Allan, 1979

- The 4mm Engine - a scratchbuilders guide, Guy Williams, Wild Swan

 

(the latter is effectively an update of the 1979 edition, but both worth having)

 

[Simond]

Beat me to it, Miss P!

 

I believe it was Iain Rice who did another Wild Swan on 4mm etched loco kit construction.  Whilst this won’t show you how to lay out frames etc, it does provide some useful info on assembly & getting it to run sweetly.

 

if you haven’t already built an etched kit, I’d strongly recommend doing so before diving into scratch-building.  There are a few reasons for this; firstly, if you buy a reputable kit, it will more or less fit together, and you will be spared the grief of having a loco that looks bad or won’t run, and needs major remedial work to fix - this is very disheartening, though, if you’re the stoic type, you might view it as educational!  Secondly, you can learn the various techniques as you go.  Thirdly, you will understand how it all fits together.  Fundamentally, the probability of a good outcome in a reasonable period of time is much better, though of course, if you already have the skills, knowledge & workshop, I’m teaching granny to suck eggs!

 

I would absolutely not start trying to scale up a commercial model!  You need decent drawings, not just an outline.

 

There are loads of good kits out there, I’m not immediately aware of a 56xx but JLTRT/MM1 did one I think.  Availability may be an issue.  There are also some kits to avoid, certainly as a beginner.

 

Hth

Simon

 

[Guest WM183]

Thanks much! I do intend to seek out good drawings; so far I haven't found anything better than the usual clearance drawings seen in most commercial books about locomotives, but I will continue seeking. As far as building an etched kit - frankly, I cannot afford one. 300 or 400 pounds is simply more than I can afford. I'm quite ok with the learning curve. I have quite a bit of machining and engineering skill, and if my first attempt at frames and siderods doesnt work, for example, I'm out some nickel silver sheet and some time. However, I want to get off on the most solid footing I can with this in mind, so will get the mentioned books and will seek out good GA and frame drawings at the minimum! If anyone knows where I can get those (or has them) i'd love to know. I've built locomotive bodies before - in N scale of all things! - but have never built a chassis, but want to try, with no expectations of success =D

You guys are great!

[Miss Prism]

I thought there was a good GA of a 56xx in an issue of Great Western Railway Journal, but I can't put my finger on it.

 

[Guest WM183]

I had forgotten all about GWR Journal - silly of me as I bought some issues for more information about vans. The index shows a 3 part series, "56xxs in South Wales" in 29, 30, and 31, and "In Close Up 56xx" in issues 38 and 41, and "'56xxs' in The English Divisions" in 83. I would guess it's either the South Wales series or the In Close Up one?

[Miss Prism]

Hmmm, could be. The 56xx GA doesn't show up in the GWRJ Index. Issue 30 rings a bell though.

 

[Guest WM183]

Well, there are worse things to buy than a few issues of the GWR journal!

[doilum]

I first read John Ahern's " Miniature Locomotive Construction" almost 50 years ago. I am definitely in the "have a go" camp.  My only caveat regarding the older texts is that materials have moved on and most kits have frames of much thinner metal. There are some unavoidable costs such as wheels. Start by establishing the size and spoke type required along with the crankpin throw. You can then start looking for any bargains out there. Otherwise £100 should just about cover the cost of wheels, bushes and pickups from Slaters. There are also some essential tools required. A small pin vice and a supply of 1mm drills, small files and a jewelers piercing saw. A simple drop weight riveting tool will be needed for the superstructure but doubles up for marking the position of holes.

Look out for useful scrap brass such as the leftovers from an etched kit but don't pay too much. I would start with the coupling rods and frames but an alternative approach would to look at the Premier Components website as they do a chassis kit for the 56xx at just over £40. They would also specify which wheels are needed. Crankpin throw is important on locomotives with deep valances.

[Simond]

Ok, well, if you’re going in the deep end, with some technical skills, you’ll be fine.

 

Remember to make the rods first, making sure they’re identical!!   I’d solder two pieces of metal together and drill, machine & file them as one, then unsolder.    Then use the rods to drill the frames, which can be similarly soldered together for the drilling, cutting and shaping.   Then assemble the frames & spacers on a sheet of something very flat (stone worktop or plate glass) and you’re done.  

 

I use either Slater’s or Fourtrack hornblocks & guides.  I’m happy to recommend Premier motors & gearboxes, as I have a few, I previously used ABC, which are also excellent if pricy, but the ABC do offer some strange configurations for the less common locos.  Your 56 will be easy from this perspective.

 

You’ll probably want castings - I have used Warren Shepherd’s stuff since I started, either to upgrade a kit or for the odd scratchbuilt efforts I’ve done.

 

hth

Simon

[O-Gauge-Phil]

Hi

 

It may not be much cheaper to scratchbuild but you can have a loco not otherwise available.  If cost is a consideration have a look on EBay, if you're not too fussy about type of loco you can find a part built complete with wheels and motor for a bargain.  Look up N15 on here, he is amazing, turns scrap into gold.  If it all goes pear shaped , you've not lost too much.

Happy Christmas

Phil

 

[Guest WM183]

I've ordered the books Ms. Prism recommended! Thanks much! I have most of the tools doilum mentions, save the drop weight rivet press, and I need one of those anyway, so may as well make now be the time I buy one. I will get the frame kit from Premier - that is a godsend! - , as suggested, and will get wheels, hornblocks, and guides from Slater's - I want some of their kits and some plasticard while I am at it! With that frame kit, a resin boiler, and some detail parts already taken care of, this is actually looking much more doable.

Thanks much folks. At least I have a foot to start on! 

 

Edit - eee Premier also does the coupling rods! 

Edited December 23, 2019 by WM183

[Guest WM183]

Am I correct to guess I would want jointed rods, if I am planning to build the chassis fully sprung? 

[brossard]

I didn't see Geoff Holt's Locomotive Modelling mentioned:  https://britishrailwaybooks.co.uk/books/ISBN/1908763019.php,

 

Two volumes

 

All the above mentioned are worth having.

 

John

 

 

[Miss Prism]

7 minutes ago, WM183 said:

Am I correct to guess I would want jointed rods, if I am planning to build the chassis fully sprung? 

 

There wouldn't be much point in having rigid rods on a sprung chassis.

 

[Guest WM183]

1 minute ago, Miss Prism said:

 

There wouldn't be much point in having rigid rods on a sprung chassis.

 

 

Right... suppose it's a bit like asking if water was wet.

[doilum]

At the risk of stirring hornets, I would question the need for sprung hornblocks on a simple fs 0 gauge loco. The old school writers would simply file the centre axle hole to allow 0.5mm upward movement. Given half decent trackwork, this eliminates the problem of see sawing and loss of electrical contact. I would go with the jointed rods, but for this first attempt stick closely to the Premiere specification.

[hayfield]

On 23/12/2019 at 10:15, WM183 said:

Thanks much! I do intend to seek out good drawings; so far I haven't found anything better than the usual clearance drawings seen in most commercial books about locomotives, but I will continue seeking. As far as building an etched kit - frankly, I cannot afford one. 300 or 400 pounds is simply more than I can afford. I'm quite ok with the learning curve. I have quite a bit of machining and engineering skill, and if my first attempt at frames and siderods doesnt work, for example, I'm out some nickel silver sheet and some time. However, I want to get off on the most solid footing I can with this in mind, so will get the mentioned books and will seek out good GA and frame drawings at the minimum! If anyone knows where I can get those (or has them) i'd love to know. I've built locomotive bodies before - in N scale of all things! - but have never built a chassis, but want to try, with no expectations of success =D

You guys are great!

 

Must be very satisfying being able to scratch build locos, N15 thread well worth reading.

 

I have found that the major costs are the wheels motor and gears/gearbox, if you watch the likes of eBay etched kits do come up now and then quite cheaply

[BritishGypsum4]

There is a book by Simon Bolton which is about scratch building and he goes through all the steps required to do a J15 but as he says it is equally suited to other scales. That one in particular is in 4mm. He also has a section on doing a diesel.

 

It is called Scratch Building Model Railway Locomotives. Ususal websites to find this would be Amazon, eBay etc.

[hartleymartin]

On 03/01/2020 at 08:51, BritishGypsum4 said:

There is a book by Simon Bolton which is about scratch building and he goes through all the steps required to do a J15 but as he says it is equally suited to other scales. That one in particular is in 4mm. He also has a section on doing a diesel.

 

It is called Scratch Building Model Railway Locomotives. Ususal websites to find this would be Amazon, eBay etc.

 

He also did one on building a 4-4-2 Tank Engine, which I found a very useful read.

[Guest WM183]

Thanks so much for the suggestions and advice. I am blown away at the quality of the models in the Williams books. I do not own a lathe yet and hope I can get by without one. 

[ICH]

I would recommend Building Model Locomotives by Roche and Templar

written In the 70’s from previous articles in the MRC  some parts are old school but lots of drawings.

 

[hartleymartin]

8 hours ago, WM183 said:

Thanks so much for the suggestions and advice. I am blown away at the quality of the models in the Williams books. I do not own a lathe yet and hope I can get by without one. 

Whilst a lot of scratch-builders work in brass, you can do plenty with plastic sheet and bits of PVC pipes and tubes. By sheer co-incidence, there are many locomotives where a 25mm or 32mm pipe is within a fraction of a millimetre of the correct diameter of the boiler.

[N15class]

Welcome aboard the scratch building train. It is basically the same as kit building but there are no parts to try and work out what they are.

Firstly there is no need for lathes or mills, yes they can help, but it can be done by hand.

As above make the rods first, as a pair of making sprung or compensated frames. Or together with the frames if rigid.

The thing to remember most of all, is get each bit right before moving onto the next. If the coupling rods aren't right the frames won't be right. Once you have the chassis running well start the body. A nicely finished body on frames that don't work is depressing. A poor body on good frames is easy to improve.

But most of all, remember it's supposed to be fun. 

[hartleymartin]

A good tip with scratch-building is that you don't have to make every single part yourself. You can make use of ready-made components if they are parts which are either too complex to make yourself or require tools/equipment that you don't have access to.

 

Premier Components make a nice range of coupling rods and connecting rods. Some prototypes have ready-made chassis kits. You can also get components such as buffers, couplings, chimneys, domes, boiler back-heads, etc pre-made as castings.

 

Also look around from suppliers of pipe and tube. You may be lucky that you can use a section of brass, copper or plastic pipe which is already the right diameter.

 

Don't limit yourself to one material. Make use of brass, nickel-silver, pewter/whitemetal, plastic, wood, etc. You may find that you prefer certain materials to others.

 

Make the model modular - you want to be able to disassemble the model into sections which will make painting, decals and detailing a lot easier. You may also find that you have to partially disassemble the model in order to make adjustments to or lubricate the motor and gearbox. I find it particularly helpful if the sections are held together with 8BA screws.