Bachmann headcode box 24

[Clive Mortimore]

The Sutton loco wins when it comes to the lower fairing and body join.

[Phil Bullock]

Soon to be reallocated to Abbotswood - delayed Xmas pressie from Jimbo, sound file on the way from Biff...

 

 

[Porcy Mane]

2 hours ago, Phil Bullock said:

I think I prefer the Bachmann number font....

 Different Darlington/Derby signwriters?

 

Even Darlington builds varied.

 

BR Sulzer Type 2 Class 25 D5153 (25003) and D5159 (25009) at Thornaby Shed 1965 by Howie Milburn, on Flickr

 

P

 

 

[Phil Bullock]

Did wonder about that - heres the real D5098...

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/67444577@N02/7275653622/in/photolist-c5VCkQ-uDU6jn-7o3pDc-iGUh7L-K4j8Ns-bkPFAV-21Wff22-TwyPb9-m7jjZL-RTRBe8-7o7iDE-7o3oJZ-7o7iBu-7o3pYt-7o7jL1-7o3o9Z-7o3qe6-7o3qaz-7o7ity-7o7hVd-7o3q4n-7o7i9s-7o7i4J-7o3o3k-7o3pyD-7o7ipG-7o7jUC-7o3ogM-7o3pjM-7o3pgV-7o7iwu-7o3prZ-7o7jHy-7o3nW6-7o3p6V-7o7jAN-7o7izs-7o3ona-7o7jnj-7o3oex-7o7ihh-7o7iro-7o3p9g-7o3pBr-7o3pqi-7o7inb-7o7iXd-7o7jFC-7o7iHN-7o3peF

 

Looks so filthy you cant tell if she has the original Darlington grilles or not... but suspect she hasnt been repainted (or renumbered) since built....

[Porcy Mane]

43 minutes ago, Phil Bullock said:

Did wonder about that - heres the real D5098...

 

From my neg collection; a just delivered D5096 as compared to...

 

 

 

P

[SRman]

1 hour ago, Porcy Mane said:

 Different Darlington/Derby signwriters?

 

Even Darlington builds varied.

 

BR Sulzer Type 2 Class 25 D5153 (25003) and D5159 (25009) at Thornaby Shed 1965 by Howie Milburn, on Flickr

 

P

 

 

The photos confirm my initial impression that the Bachmann version's windscreens are a little too deep for class 24 or 25/0. The Sutton loco has that right, I think.

Otherwise I do like what Bachmann have produced.

[gridwatcher]

On 14/03/2020 at 19:26, Dougjuk said:

Got mine today, been running it in and fitting sound.  The Bachmann speaker was too quiet so I fitted a single small Zimo dumbo speaker.

 

 

 

Whose sound file is that Doug?

[cctransuk]

4 hours ago, SRman said:

 

Interesting -D5153 was the loco that carried an experimental reflective yellow warning panel, and D5159 was the loco that carried an experimental reflective orange warning panel.

 

 

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Norton961]

The fan grill on the roof of the Sutton is very pronounced and tall compared to the Bachmann one. 

Dont get me started on the vertical strips on the outside of the rad grill on the Sutton example. These strips on the prototype are on the inside of the rad grill and are not visible under normal circumstances.

Both models have good and bad points but my vote is for the Bachmann one.

 

David

[Covkid]

2 hours ago, Norton961 said:

The fan grill on the roof of the Sutton is very pronounced and tall compared to the Bachmann one. 

Dont get me started on the vertical strips on the outside of the rad grill on the Sutton example. These strips on the prototype are on the inside of the rad grill and are not visible under normal circumstances.

Both models have good and bad points but my vote is for the Bachmann one.

 

David

 

I agree David.

One of the many differences between the "class 24" and "class 25" type twos was the bodyside grilles. All the 151 class 24s and the 25 class 25/0s had cast metal bodyside air intakes, boiler room grille and the large radiator grille. D5176 (25026) onwards had similar  but these were fabricated and were noticeably different.  The bodyside air intakes for example were nigh on flush with the body sides.  The radiator grilles were basically interwoven wire in a frame and again sat very much at the same depth as the body skin with just the frame standing proud,  

Not sure whether this image is viewable on here but shows the cast metal radiator grille with it's vertical dividing struts - the ones which are very noticable on the SLW model 

 

[russ p]

24 and 25/0 windscreens are about inch less deep than later 25s

[Opelsi]

Just wondering what the external differences were between Classes 24/1 & 25/0 as would love one of the latter to complete the fleet of all sub variants of both classes?

 

[iwfb]

18 hours ago, SRman said:

The photos confirm my initial impression that the Bachmann version's windscreens are a little too deep for class 24 or 25/0. The Sutton loco has that right, I think.

Otherwise I do like what Bachmann have produced.

Where are the windscreens too deep?

(Apologies to D1051 for using his image)

[Roy Langridge]

19 minutes ago, iwfb said:

Where are the windscreens too deep?

(Apologies to D1051 for using his image)

 

I think the whole face is a little bit off because the roof is too tall in my opinion - it is that which makes the roof fan grill look so different.

Roy

['CHARD]

24 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said:

 

I think the whole face is a little bit off because the roof is too tall in my opinion - it is that which makes the roof fan grill look so different.

Roy

 

It's impossible to tell from that photo comparison, as the model isn't square-on; as can be seen from the perspective around the buffers and the roof aft of the cab, visible on the model but for obvious reasons invisible on the real thing.  The presence of a headcode box completely obscures the roof crown too.

[SRman]

54 minutes ago, iwfb said:

Where are the windscreens too deep?

(Apologies to D1051 for using his image)

 

Well, you have scaled the two photos so the windscreens line up for size, but then the lower parts don't line up (not helped by the different perspectives. If you scale the whole cab front to match on each photo, the windscreens on the model are going to be slightly deeper. At least, that's what it looks like to me. It would greatly assist a a fair comparison if you could take a photo of the model to match the angle of the perspective of the real one.

I may be wrong, but when you look at the side by side comparison of the Sutton's one against the Bachmann model, the Sutton's model just looks more correct to me.

[Roy Langridge]

1 hour ago, 'CHARD said:

 

It's impossible to tell from that photo comparison, as the model isn't square-on; as can be seen from the perspective around the buffers and the roof aft of the cab, visible on the model but for obvious reasons invisible on the real thing.  The presence of a headcode box completely obscures the roof crown too.

Hi ‘Chard.
 

Wasn’t basing my comment just on those two photos. It is very close but, to me, is not quite right.
 

Nonetheless, as said by others, both models have strengths and weaknesses, neither, however, would look out of place next to the other. Given the praise that the SLW 24 got, that is a credit to Bachman.  
 

Roy

Edited March 18, 2020 by Roy Langridge
Typo

[iak]

Gentlemen,

I think the earlier comparisons with SLW are a little unfair since D1051’s pictures contrasted the very newest Bachmann release with one of the original Sutton’s models. The SLW Class 24 got upgraded last year with a number of improvements. This included much better radiator grilles, new glazing and re-done wipers. I fully expect these changes will be incorporated into the Scottish version of the Class 24/1 that SLW are currently working on and that I ordered months ago. 

 

I have one of the latest SLW locos in blue as 24009 in P4 – it’s a peach… There are some pictures useful for comparison over on the SLW page:

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/105551-suttons-locomotive-works-class-24/&do=findComment&comment=3776209

 

As I see it, there are quite a few areas of concern on the new Bachmann model which seem to have be overlooked so far. As Clive Mortimore said, the deal-breaker is the horrible fake body/chassis split-line which completely ruins the model - it is very obvious around the lower front ends and cabsides. I don’t see any way of correcting or removing it because that is where the body comes off. Bachmann have also missed off the real panel lines above the row of bolts. The complex fairing shape in the bufferbeam area is probably the most distinctive part of a Class 24. I am surprised this was not picked up in the magazine reviews I have read so far.

 

Time spent looking in more detail is rewarding - here are some other observations.

Triangle body panel – BACH Raised (wrong);  SLW Flush (correct) 

Battery switch cover – BACH Flat;  SLW Removable and detail behind.

Boiler blow valve – BACH Detail missing;  SLW Raised detail present.

Roof coolant outlet – BACH Moulded square;  SLW Etched detail.

Main radiator grille – BACH moulded;  SLW Etched metal.

Roof fan and boiler grilles – BACH Plastic;  SLW Etched metal.

Small side grilles – BACH Moulded body colour;  SLW Separate coloured.

Cab handrails – BACH Crude overscale plastic;  SLW Fine metal (etch?)

Sandpipes – BACH Simple bent wire;  SLW Detailed plastic with valves. 

Solebar fairings – BACH Plain mould;  SLW Detailed with joins/labels.

Bogie pipe runs – BACH Moulded on;  SLW Separate detail parts.

Silencer/exhaust port – BACH Moulded on;  SLW Separate parts.

Cab footstep – BACH Blanked behind;  SLW Open through step.

Coupling mount – BACH Basic bogie fixing;  SLW Chassis kinematic. 

Cab inside - BACH Relatively simple;  SLW Detailed with printing. 

DCC sound – BACH Single speaker;  SLW Twin speaker system.

Disassembly – BACH Lots of screws!;  SLW Four simple clips. 

 

The Bachmann central roof panel is also very bland and fixings are in the wrong position compared to photographs of 24137 see https://flic.kr/p/Qj613Q

I do hope these comments are taken in the way intended and it doesn’t descend into a shouting match, as over in the Heljan diesel thread.

 

My pennies are with SLW. What do others think?

[cctransuk]

14 minutes ago, iak said:

Gentlemen,

I think the earlier comparisons with SLW are a little unfair since D1051’s pictures contrasted the very newest Bachmann release with one of the original Sutton’s models. The SLW Class 24 got upgraded last year with a number of improvements. This included much better radiator grilles, new glazing and re-done wipers. I fully expect these changes will be incorporated into the Scottish version of the Class 24/1 that SLW are currently working on and that I ordered months ago. 

 

I have one of the latest SLW locos in blue as 24009 in P4 – it’s a peach… There are some pictures useful for comparison over on the SLW page:

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/105551-suttons-locomotive-works-class-24/&do=findComment&comment=3776209

 

As I see it, there are quite a few areas of concern on the new Bachmann model which seem to have be overlooked so far. As Clive Mortimore said, the deal-breaker is the horrible fake body/chassis split-line which completely ruins the model - it is very obvious around the lower front ends and cabsides. I don’t see any way of correcting or removing it because that is where the body comes off. Bachmann have also missed off the real panel lines above the row of bolts. The complex fairing shape in the bufferbeam area is probably the most distinctive part of a Class 24. I am surprised this was not picked up in the magazine reviews I have read so far.

 

Time spent looking in more detail is rewarding - here are some other observations.

Triangle body panel – BACH Raised (wrong);  SLW Flush (correct) 

Battery switch cover – BACH Flat;  SLW Removable and detail behind.

Boiler blow valve – BACH Detail missing;  SLW Raised detail present.

Roof coolant outlet – BACH Moulded square;  SLW Etched detail.

Main radiator grille – BACH moulded;  SLW Etched metal.

Roof fan and boiler grilles – BACH Plastic;  SLW Etched metal.

Small side grilles – BACH Moulded body colour;  SLW Separate coloured.

Cab handrails – BACH Crude overscale plastic;  SLW Fine metal (etch?)

Sandpipes – BACH Simple bent wire;  SLW Detailed plastic with valves. 

Solebar fairings – BACH Plain mould;  SLW Detailed with joins/labels.

Bogie pipe runs – BACH Moulded on;  SLW Separate detail parts.

Silencer/exhaust port – BACH Moulded on;  SLW Separate parts.

Cab footstep – BACH Blanked behind;  SLW Open through step.

Coupling mount – BACH Basic bogie fixing;  SLW Chassis kinematic. 

Cab inside - BACH Relatively simple;  SLW Detailed with printing. 

DCC sound – BACH Single speaker;  SLW Twin speaker system.

Disassembly – BACH Lots of screws!;  SLW Four simple clips. 

 

The Bachmann central roof panel is also very bland and fixings are in the wrong position compared to photographs of 24137 see https://flic.kr/p/Qj613Q

I do hope these comments are taken in the way intended and it doesn’t descend into a shouting match, as over in the Heljan diesel thread.

 

My pennies are with SLW. What do others think?

 

I think that the vast majority of potential purchasers would not have the time or inclination to examine two very good models in such minute detail - I certainly wouldn't. Also, you seem to assume that etched detail is automatically superior to moulded detail; I far prefer the latter, not least because etched detail can be and is mis-applied.

 

On price alone, it'd be the Bachmann version for me.

 

John Isherwood.

[Markn]

19 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

I think that the vast majority of potential purchasers would not have the time or inclination to examine two very good models in such minute detail - I certainly wouldn't. Also, you seem to assume that etched detail is automatically superior to moulded detail; I far prefer the latter, not least because etched detail can be and is mis-applied.

 

On price alone, it'd be the Bachmann version for me.

 

John Isherwood.

 

This is so very true. I didn't even know that half of those things quoted existed lol and wouldn't want them falling off when I pick it up, so moulded (to the detail they are on the Bachmann release) is fine for me.

[iak]

And that is all your right and privilege gentleman. 

I simply felt a forensic analysis was required - the choice is yours...

[Bernard Lamb]

14 minutes ago, iak said:

16 minutes ago, iak said:

 

I simply felt a forensic analysis was required - the choice is yours...

 

….and what an excellent job you made of it.

It does not really bother me as far as a layout model is concerned but sitting here needing some light entertainment it will keep me from going mad for an hour or so while I check out the various points.

OCD tendencies? 

Yep. But doing Quality Audits it gave me a good living.

Many thanks. 

Bernard 

[Clive Mortimore]

Unpacked my two, and both are trundling around the layout with a six coach train (layout maximum) at a scale 60 mph. Very pleased with them. I haven't yet compared them with my part built  Hornby class 25/0 or a SLW class 24. They look at home as they circulate around the room. 

 

One of them is likely to become a 25/0 or one of the ones fitted with a 25 style cab roof with wings to the headcode box. Not sure which as yet. 

[25901]

To be honest both models are a leap forward compared to the Hornby 25 that most of us have had to put up with for decades.

I take all the hot debate on these models will be replicated when Heljan release their 25/3, I’m sure people will find fault and the rivet counters will be in fits never mind the wrong shade of paint army sharping their knifes.

 

Then again what do I know, I only used to own the real thing. Lol  

 

[atom3624]

Is the door shape beneath the middle window supposed to be doors like they are on the Bachmann?

 

Al.