sulzer71 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 (edited) I can't decide whether to purchase 24137 or wait for the SLW West highland one , i currently have a part converted Bachmann 24/0 with Brassmasters cab roofs but quite obviously it needs a lot more work to make it a 24/1 whereas 24137 would need little work Edit : considering what i have seen posted about turning these into early 25/0`s i am giving serious consideration to having a loco fleet cull so i can purchase a handful of them to turn into Highland 24/1's and a 25/0's Edited March 30, 2020 by sulzer71 Further thoughts Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted March 27, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 27, 2020 Have been asked about converting this model to a 25/0 Looks to me as if boiler associated fittings are the main difference. On investigation it does look like the water tanks are a seperate moulding that might come away without further damage - has anyone tried this? Would then be the boiler compartment roof that required work - anything else I have missed? Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted March 27, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 27, 2020 1 hour ago, Phil Bullock said: Have been asked about converting this model to a 25/0 Looks to me as if boiler associated fittings are the main difference. On investigation it does look like the water tanks are a seperate moulding that might come away without further damage - has anyone tried this? Would then be the boiler compartment roof that required work - anything else I have missed? Phil Hi Phil Class 25/0 needs the little odd shaped thing on the boiler compartment removing, and the boiler exhaust. the other two slightly raised panels need to stay where they are. The water tank needs removing, I haven't as yet checked to see what size fuel tank they had and if it is the same size as the one under the 24/1. And of course with all Sulzer Bo-Bos depending on your modelling time period the position of the engine exhaust. Some thing else I need to check is the cant rail mounted water tank fillers, were class 25/1s fitted with them? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRUNFOS Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 On 23/03/2020 at 12:07, Phil Bullock said: Am sure Bacchy would do their best to help Paul - drop them a message off their web site They sure have Phil. In the post now. Thanks. By the way I painted the side grills black on mine, it does make a difference. {see pics above} 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted March 27, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 27, 2020 15 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said: Some thing else I need to check is the cant rail mounted water tank fillers, were class 25/1s fitted with them? Cheers Clive - hope all is good with you and yours... Cant rail water fillers - most certainly fitted to 25/1s.... D5181 - 5232 .... but 25/0s were perverse! Why would they need them - no boiler - and as built not apparent. But later on in life . and often with access footsteps plated over - lo and behold there they are! Must have been faired over initially and had the fairings removed..... Some good photos on Derby Sulzer 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted March 27, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 27, 2020 8 minutes ago, Phil Bullock said: Cheers Clive - hope all is good with you and yours... Cant rail water fillers - most certainly fitted to 25/1s.... D5181 - 5232 .... but 25/0s were perverse! Why would they need them - no boiler - and as built not apparent. But later on in life . and often with access footsteps plated over - lo and behold there they are! Must have been faired over initially and had the fairings removed..... Some good photos on Derby Sulzer Have you seen the roof detail photo of 25003 where it has fallen over. There is also one of the under bits and bobs. I feel a conversion coming on, as well as my Hornby one I started about 2 years ago. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted March 27, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 27, 2020 6 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said: Have you seen the roof detail photo of 25003 where it has fallen over. There is also one of the under bits and bobs. I feel a conversion coming on, as well as my Hornby one I started about 2 years ago. Yes thats the master phot for 25/0 roof detail! Has 2 tone warning panel too..... https://www.derbysulzers.com/25003.html for those who might not have seen it - scroll down the page Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said: Class 25/0 needs the little odd shaped thing on the boiler compartment removing, You'll be meaning the boilers, air intake shroud. 48 minutes ago, Phil Bullock said: Cant rail water fillers - most certainly fitted to 25/1s.... D5181 - 5232 .... but 25/0s were perverse! Why would they need them - no boiler Coolant systems. This any good? Why did Bachmann omit the additional bogie step or is it in an accessory pack? There doesn't appear to be any fixing holes in the bogie. Good shot of 1st generation class 25 roof in original condition (but the hinged filler covers removed/lost) here: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRITISH-RAIL-RAILWAY-DIESEL-PHOTO-1960S-SULZER-TYPE-2-D5153-DERAILED-AUG-1967/123835620334?hash=item1cd52d9bee:g:swgAAOSwfSldKz9h The roof panelling variations can be a nightmare once the works visits started and roof sections started getting swapped about from original. It's definitely one of those occasions that, if accuracy bothers you, you really need a top down phot of your prototype in the period you're modelling. P Edited March 27, 2020 by Porcy Mane 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted March 27, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 27, 2020 1 hour ago, Porcy Mane said: You'll be meaning the boilers, air intake shroud. Coolant systems. This any good? Why did Bachmann omit the additional bogie step or is it in an accessory pack? There doesn't appear to be any fixing holes in the bogie. Good shot of 1st generation class 25 roof in original condition (but the hinged filler covers removed/lost) here: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRITISH-RAIL-RAILWAY-DIESEL-PHOTO-1960S-SULZER-TYPE-2-D5153-DERAILED-AUG-1967/123835620334?hash=item1cd52d9bee:g:swgAAOSwfSldKz9h The roof panelling variations can be a nightmare once the works visits started and roof sections started getting swapped about from original. It's definitely one of those occasions that, if accuracy bothers you, you really need a top down phot of your prototype in the period you're modelling. P Thanks. I am glad some knows what that odd shape thingy is. There is a set of steps for the boiler filler hatch access in the detail pack. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted March 27, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 27, 2020 Sounds much better .... can I ask what you did with the speaker please Richard? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul 27 Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 (edited) Having purchased one I find the body sits quite lower than my other 24s and 25s nobody has mentioned this, does this mean Bachmann are scaling down there locos, it looks like its the body not the chassis that is shorter in height, may be this new model has been scanned for accurate dimensions. Edited March 30, 2020 by paul 27 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractor_37260 Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 (edited) Made a start today in stripping down my 24/1. It wasn't running as well as I'd like and I also wanted to the replace the headcodes with domino's that were very kindly supplied FOC by Phil Bullock. Firstly noticed the bogie drive worms could use some lubricant they looked pretty dry. Also noticed that small caps were fitted across the motor leads, I always remove these (if fitted) when using DCC. Cab light LED's are indeed fitted. Bogies will also require stripping down as the contact strips are not always touching the wheel backs (when the axles are moved side to side.) The speaker housing is tiny, and the full length circuit board does not leave a lot of space for a bigger speaker either. Interesting to compare just how SLW managed to design in space in their type 2's which as we all know sound excellent. Due to the chassis design, the motor is smaller/slimmer than the standard Bachmann fitment. The original 24/25's mostly ran very sweetly straight out of the box, not so my 24/1 example. Hopefully once competed it will run better on DC prior to fitting a decoder. Edited March 28, 2020 by tractor_37260 update text 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractor_37260 Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 (edited) On 20/03/2020 at 08:39, paul 27 said: Advertised as having cab lighting yet nothing mentioned in the instruction sheet or does this only work on DCC. Cab light LED's are fitted, assume they will only work on DCC ? although yet to try that. Edited March 28, 2020 by tractor_37260 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 (edited) On 27/03/2020 at 12:06, Phil Bullock said: has anyone tried this? Got one this afternoon. 24 hr delivery from rails. Excellent job from them and Royal mail. Had to get behind the spigots to "punch" them out without damage. Same with the roof detail. First RTR model I've come across were an excess of adhesive has been used to secure individual components. Nice touch is the motor bogie centres are now cast metal with the 2mm axles running in phosphor bronze horn blocks. Should make springing a cinch. The motor is an 1830. P Edited March 28, 2020 by Porcy Mane 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
25901 Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 On 27/03/2020 at 16:06, Clive Mortimore said: Thanks. I am glad some knows what that odd shape thingy is. There is a set of steps for the boiler filler hatch access in the detail pack. 24's had a top water filler with cover (dead fun filling using that) while 25's had a side hatch. 25/3 even thou not fitted with a boiler had the hatch but was blanked off when built, could never understand why they even cut it out in the first place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted March 28, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 28, 2020 23 minutes ago, Porcy Mane said: Got one this afternoon. 24 hr delivery from rails. Excellent job from them and Royal mail. Had to get behind the spigots to "punch" them out without damage. Same with the roof detail. First RTR model I've come across were an excess of adhesive has been used to secure individual components. Nice touch is the motor bogie centres are now cast metal with the 2mm axles running in phosphor bronze horn blocks. Should make springing a cinch. The motor is an 1830. P Seeing the water tank comes off suggest a 25/0 could be on the books, so do I convert one of mine or just renumber it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 18 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said: Seeing the water tank comes off suggest a 25/0 could be on the books, so do I convert one of mine or just renumber it? Just needs the boiler exhaust filing flush and the two 1mm holes left by the removal of the intake canopy filling. Blanking plate from 5 thou, Handwheels for the battery boxes and the jobs a good-un. The Sulzer exhaust port on the other hand... ... ... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted March 29, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 29, 2020 On 27/03/2020 at 14:37, Porcy Mane said: You'll be meaning the boilers, air intake shroud. Coolant systems. This any good? Why did Bachmann omit the additional bogie step or is it in an accessory pack? There doesn't appear to be any fixing holes in the bogie. Good shot of 1st generation class 25 roof in original condition (but the hinged filler covers removed/lost) here: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRITISH-RAIL-RAILWAY-DIESEL-PHOTO-1960S-SULZER-TYPE-2-D5153-DERAILED-AUG-1967/123835620334?hash=item1cd52d9bee:g:swgAAOSwfSldKz9h The roof panelling variations can be a nightmare once the works visits started and roof sections started getting swapped about from original. It's definitely one of those occasions that, if accuracy bothers you, you really need a top down phot of your prototype in the period you're modelling. P Thanks Porky theres more photos of that incident here... https://www.derbysulzers.com/25003.html Good photos of roof details on locos are not that common are they! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul 27 Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 16 hours ago, Porcy Mane said: Got one this afternoon. 24 hr delivery from rails. Excellent job from them and Royal mail. Had to get behind the spigots to "punch" them out without damage. Same with the roof detail. First RTR model I've come across were an excess of adhesive has been used to secure individual components. Nice touch is the motor bogie centres are now cast metal with the 2mm axles running in phosphor bronze horn blocks. Should make springing a cinch. The motor is an 1830. P How do you access the motor for oiling, thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 1 hour ago, paul 27 said: How do you access the motor for oiling, thanks. Disconnect the main circuit board JST connectors. Lift off main circuit board after removing its 6 retaining screws. To save unsoldering the tail lamp circuit boards from the main circuit board you can take out their respective self tappers then lift them off with the main board as a single unit. The motor is retained under a metal plate held by a further four countersunk screws. After removing the plate the motor simply lifts out whilst "jiggling" the driveshafts free. If you forget how to put it back together the silk screen printed arrow points to the № 1 (radiator) end. Better still; use your phone to take a snap before you start. If your motor is anything like mine it shouldn't need oiling. Mine had too much. I rarely lubricate motor bearings as the oil has a tendency to creep to where it's not needed. P 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul 27 Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 Thanks Porky Mane, I don't think mine does its quiet in one direction but leading number 1 end has a motor rattle noise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractor_37260 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 (edited) 24/1 Cab lights. Although fitted, these will not work on DC as supplied because Bachmann fitted the wrong type of blanking plug. They will work if you replace the blanking plug with one that has the 2 little black boxes (diodes) as fitted to DCC ready 37's etc. I've now lubricated the bogie worms/motor bearings (very lightly) removed the caps across the motor wires and adjusted the pick-ups so they now touch the wheel backs at all times, result - it now runs perfectly. Final job is to change over the headcode blinds to domino's. HTH Edited March 30, 2020 by tractor_37260 update text 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aureol40012 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 On 19/03/2020 at 10:04, iak said: Gentlemen, I think the earlier comparisons with SLW are a little unfair since D1051’s pictures contrasted the very newest Bachmann release with one of the original Sutton’s models. The SLW Class 24 got upgraded last year with a number of improvements. This included much better radiator grilles, new glazing and re-done wipers. I fully expect these changes will be incorporated into the Scottish version of the Class 24/1 that SLW are currently working on and that I ordered months ago. I have one of the latest SLW locos in blue as 24009 in P4 – it’s a peach… There are some pictures useful for comparison over on the SLW page: https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/105551-suttons-locomotive-works-class-24/&do=findComment&comment=3776209 As I see it, there are quite a few areas of concern on the new Bachmann model which seem to have be overlooked so far. As Clive Mortimore said, the deal-breaker is the horrible fake body/chassis split-line which completely ruins the model - it is very obvious around the lower front ends and cabsides. I don’t see any way of correcting or removing it because that is where the body comes off. Bachmann have also missed off the real panel lines above the row of bolts. The complex fairing shape in the bufferbeam area is probably the most distinctive part of a Class 24. I am surprised this was not picked up in the magazine reviews I have read so far. Time spent looking in more detail is rewarding - here are some other observations. Triangle body panel – BACH Raised (wrong); SLW Flush (correct) Battery switch cover – BACH Flat; SLW Removable and detail behind. Boiler blow valve – BACH Detail missing; SLW Raised detail present. Roof coolant outlet – BACH Moulded square; SLW Etched detail. Main radiator grille – BACH moulded; SLW Etched metal. Roof fan and boiler grilles – BACH Plastic; SLW Etched metal. Small side grilles – BACH Moulded body colour; SLW Separate coloured. Cab handrails – BACH Crude overscale plastic; SLW Fine metal (etch?) Sandpipes – BACH Simple bent wire; SLW Detailed plastic with valves. Solebar fairings – BACH Plain mould; SLW Detailed with joins/labels. Bogie pipe runs – BACH Moulded on; SLW Separate detail parts. Silencer/exhaust port – BACH Moulded on; SLW Separate parts. Cab footstep – BACH Blanked behind; SLW Open through step. Coupling mount – BACH Basic bogie fixing; SLW Chassis kinematic. Cab inside - BACH Relatively simple; SLW Detailed with printing. DCC sound – BACH Single speaker; SLW Twin speaker system. Disassembly – BACH Lots of screws!; SLW Four simple clips. The Bachmann central roof panel is also very bland and fixings are in the wrong position compared to photographs of 24137 see https://flic.kr/p/Qj613Q I do hope these comments are taken in the way intended and it doesn’t descend into a shouting match, as over in the Heljan diesel thread. My pennies are with SLW. What do others think? Completely ruins the model? Really? Nothing like a bit of hyperbole to make a point ;-) 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevpeo Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 Well on its way to being a 25/0 - Turns out that 25 003 is the only one that matches the details and my timeframe. Kev. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sulzer71 Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 5 minutes ago, kevpeo said: Well on its way to being a 25/0 - Turns out that 25 003 is the only one that matches the details and my timeframe. Kev. Nice , is that's all that's needed to convert it? i was contemplating 003 myself but also 007 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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